BBC Radio 1 has been accused of encouraging knife and gun crime by Conservative leader David Cameron.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5055724.stm

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

Even though Ernie got killed by a rock cake?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

haha

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

Any ilxors listen to the westwood show?

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

doesn't cameron like the smiths or some shit like that, or was it the arctic monkeys?

fucking indie kids are all racist.

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

westwood show = only one on radio 1 i would consider listening to.

i listen to 1xtra on the rare occasions i listen to the radio.

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:48 (nineteen years ago)

I used to listen to Westwood. Then I realised it was the same show every week and gave up.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

It's Gordon Brown that claims to like the Arctic Monkeys!

Prospective Prime Ministers be indie.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

fucking indie kids are all racist.

-- The Lex

Would you care to elaborate on that?

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:56 (nineteen years ago)

DNFTIT.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

He was responding to a question from June Walton, the editor of Good Housekeeping, about how the Conservatives would tackle the growing problem of knife crime.

Good Housekeeping?? I thought it was all choux pastry and knitted dildo warmers.

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

A lex-trife fight would be the best thing ever, or close, I think!

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

not liking r&b = racist, basically

i read that article properly and not only does cameron like the smiths, he also likes radiohead :oooo

i assume gordon was lying, if he wasn't i will have to withdraw my vague approval of him

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

Don't be such an idiot Lex.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not a big fan of most modern r&b (give or take some undeniable great songs like No Diggity for instance and a few others)
Does that make me racist, lex?

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

I thought we were talking about gangsta rap?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

HOLD IT DOWN LEX

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

I would say that R&B as it stands in 2006 is the most creatively bankrupt music there is. Sieg heil, obviously.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

(Unless Teedra Moses has been singing about blowing anyone's face off lately, I dunno, she might have done. I don't have time to fit new music in between BNP rallies these days.)

(xposts)

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

teedra moses sings about how she's too cute for that, and her man should deal with it instead

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:06 (nineteen years ago)

more creatively bankrupt than indie rock, marcello? surely you don't believe that.

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:07 (nineteen years ago)

culturalist not racist

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:11 (nineteen years ago)

as far as creative bankrupty indie-rock/pop and R&B-based pop are about the same. but this level playing field is not really represenetd satisfactorily in the UK music media.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

Shut up, Lex.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

I agree with both Stevem and Nick there!

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

Lex, you are aware that you are, every day in every way, painting yourself seemingly gleefully into a more and more reductive, stereotype-enforcing cliché of an identity?

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

1xtra is if anything even worse than Radio 1 for irritating between-song waffle.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

as far as creative bankrupty indie-rock/pop and R&B-based pop are about the same. but this level playing field is not really represenetd satisfactorily in the UK music media.

That doesnt have anything to do with the fact lex says fucking indie kids are all racist.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

Nick xpost:

Or, to put it another way:

*clears throat, all together now, 1-2-3-4...*

YOUR VOICE IS NOT YOUR OWN, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT OF A DISCOURSE!

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

Exactement.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not a big fan of most modern r&b (give or take some undeniable great songs like No Diggity for instance and a few others)
Does that make me racist, lex?

i think it makes one (wilfully) ignorant of the genre, which some might link to a semi-conscious disdain or even fear of that genre's subcultural attachment. but as i say, this would be tantamount to cultural prejudice rather than racial. but i say that because i genuinely don't believe someone could claim that indie (as we know it) has maintained creative supremacy over other genres in the last 30 years (or possible evah).

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

Are you (wilfully) ignorant of opra or jazz, Stevem?

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

That's just being silly. One can listen intently and comprehensively to modern R&B (as I do; living in South London it's unavoidable) and still come to an informed decision that nearly all of it is k-rub. Otherwise your argument ends up sounding like a Levellers hate mail in Melody Maker circa 1992, viz. "you hate the Levellers - or could it be you're SCARED of them?" etc.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

You'd think people would be bored of this conversation after five fucking years but evidently not.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

this dude is trying too hard

and what (ooo), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

You'd think people would be bored of the Westwood show after 21 fucking years but evidently not.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

Are you (wilfully) ignorant of opra or jazz, Stevem?

Ignorant certainly but wilfully? Maybe. It is difficult to tell (hence brackets).

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

You'd think people would be bored of this conversation after five fucking years but evidently not.

Yes yes yes BUT every three months you get to use it in relation to a new song!

Don't like Leafy Windbottoms new R&B smash?! RACIST MURDERER!

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

My local Age Concern has a long-sleeved Levellers t-shirt in the window at the moment.

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

Ignorant certainly but wilfully? Maybe. It is difficult to tell (hence brackets).

But they're both all around you in London, all you need to do is turn on a certain radio station or go out in the West End or nip into Pizza Express. RACIST.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

how exactly does one arrive at Leafy Windbottom?

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

Express service from Tooting Bec, third cubicle on the right (you'll know it because cubicle two is stencilled "THOM, S.: TRESPASSERS WILL BE GASSED").

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

Stevem, i listen to a LOT of funk,soul,jazz , techno amongst indie/rock/metal.
Not liking a lot of R&B does not make me culturally prejudiced, wilfully or otherwise.
I may be ignorant of a lot of R&B, i cannot deny that. (and i would like to know more about hip hop than the 10 cds i own in that genre)But i'm sure theres genres of music you and everyone else are ignorant of.
Theres nothing racist about that at all in most peoples cases.
You just cant like everything.

and for the record modern NME type indie is shit IMO.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

The problem w/the Lex's ridiculous position is that listening to music is just one of a series of choices we make which can be crudely mapped onto a protectionist/culturally open spectrum. I'd guess that non-Western cinema is more popular among white 'indie' fans than white R'n'B listeners, whereas both groups like curry and sushi...you can't generalise. I'm betting Lex listens to precious little African music.

(Cameron's guilty of exactly the same thing Lex is, of course, ascribing massive political significance to other people's music tastes while barely thinking about his own.)

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

Sick, I'm not the one arguing that that is racist. I'm arguing that it's cultural prejudice.

One can listen intently and comprehensively to modern R&B (as I do; living in South London it's unavoidable) and still come to an informed decision that nearly all of it is k-rub.

Of course. But one would hope for some decent reasoning with it, as ever. One would also expect this same sweeping judgement to be equally applicable to any other popular genre out there right now.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:31 (nineteen years ago)

You'd think people would be bored of this conversation after five fucking years but evidently not.

well i've ignored it for years on ILX by not commenting on it but today I got fed up with it.
In no way is it a personal attack against The Lex.
x-post

Tom OTM re Cameron.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

I say "you can't generalise" shortly after generalising. Ahem. I mean "you can't USEFULLY generalise".

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

Tom OTM - also on the flipside, surely like all right-thinking people view the "I'm not racist, I like curry!" argument with the mocking derision it deserves. "I'm not racist, I like Aaliyah" is equally flimsy an argument.

(Unless you think the only good rnb diva is a dead rnb diva, I suppose)

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

Wow, that was a new high in terms of responding to pointless imaginary rhetoric.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

I'm betting Lex listens to precious little African music.

ding ding ding.

all this "people who don't listen to r&b are *wilfully* ignoring it" stuff is a load of old rubbish.

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

Not true, he liked the last U2 album didn't he?

Who Are You... The Nerve... I Wanna Get Out, I Wanna Get Out (Dada), Friday, 9 June 2006 09:00 (nineteen years ago)

I think my point stands.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 9 June 2006 09:27 (nineteen years ago)

Then Paul Morley doesn't have a clue.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Friday, 9 June 2006 10:49 (nineteen years ago)

Paul Morley only likes new music which sounds like music made 30 years ago.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 9 June 2006 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

hurrah thread ends in consensus as everyone rounds on paul morley!

The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 9 June 2006 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

better than the thread ending in dissensus!

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 9 June 2006 11:30 (nineteen years ago)

consensus = one love
dissensus = no love

The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 9 June 2006 11:34 (nineteen years ago)

I bet Paul Morley likes Sandi Thom.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5047848.stm#wednesdayletters

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Monday, 12 June 2006 06:29 (nineteen years ago)

apparently lethal bizzle has weighed in on this [in the guardian], and cam'ron responded [in the mail on sunday].

so last night newsnight put up lethal's manager against michael gove. anyhoo it was good to be reminded just what an evil cunt gove is. but oh my days lethal's manager was the most inarticulate interviewee imaginable. it was fucking embarrassing. i had to mute it, but no doubt gove won.

but what in hell is the fuss all about, other than cam'ron making nice with the base? is he proposing to ban rap music? thought not, so where's the beef? lethal should have just said 'and what?', but instead they've gotten into a ridiculous debate about the link between violent crime and music. it's a bit insincere to say rap and grime lyrics are a 'commentary' on violence -- like ardkore tracks were a 'commentary' on drug use. but still.

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 08:53 (nineteen years ago)

the "it's a commentary" defence has always been lame but i guess seeing exactly the same bad arguments rehashed again and again from both sides is at least reassuring that neither side really intends to do anything concrete like eg ban hip-hop. it's an easy way for politicians like cam'ron to score points as there's nothing they can/will do but they can do the rhetoric and stuff.

it would be nice to see someone step up with the actual proper arguments over why it's completely illogical and stupid to claim a causal link between violent music (even if it does actively promote violence) and actual crime.

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 09:09 (nineteen years ago)

four months pass...
David Cameron vs. Rhymefest

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 19 October 2006 09:23 (nineteen years ago)

How convenient that just after Cameron expressed his discontent with rap lyrics, Westwood should lose his Friday night show on Radio 1.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 October 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

i'm listening to Radio 1 for the first time in ages and I can tell you its encouraging knife crime - i now want to knife the people who draw up the playlists, Razorlight and VER KIDS for buying the shite.

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 19 October 2006 10:51 (nineteen years ago)

"We are absolutely adamant that it is not a PR stunt and so it will be totally private."

he told the media

ONIMO's fish might turn into lizards (GerryNemo), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:07 (nineteen years ago)

Who the fuck is Rhymefest?

struttin' with some barbecue (jimnaseum), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:13 (nineteen years ago)

Our next Prime Minister.

;_; (blueski), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

They should call in MC Tunes too.

James Herbert Dip (noodle vague), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:15 (nineteen years ago)

I can only assume Derek B was busy.

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:16 (nineteen years ago)

He has to take care of his bad young brother.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:18 (nineteen years ago)

It's just some pathetic minor figure from the entertainment industry trying to score a bit of publicity. By meeting with Rhymefest.

James Herbert Dip (noodle vague), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:18 (nineteen years ago)

Rhymefest is buddy of Kanye's, he co-wrote "Jesus Walks", and released a decent debut LP this summer which didn't sell much.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0515/4490722_200X150.jpg

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:20 (nineteen years ago)

Why doesn't Cameron just go and see his mate DLT? After all, didn't he invent rap with "Convoy GB"?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:22 (nineteen years ago)

Rhymefest: "I must say I found your comments rather obtuse and symptomatic of an aloof, overprivileged society in which both racial and class-based paranoia and prejudices are institutionalised to the extent of unconsciousness and the resulting cultural chasm between us."

Cameron: "You don't like it get off my brand new diiiiiiiiick"

;_; (blueski), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

DLT: "Hang about, leave it out, you pilchard!"
Cameron: "Quack quack oops."

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:27 (nineteen years ago)

Rhymefest ft Adam Rickitt.

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

Please Camer Don't Hurt 'Em

James Herbert Dip (noodle vague), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

He's the DC, I'm the rapper

ONIMO's fish might turn into lizards (GerryNemo), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:41 (nineteen years ago)

"I keep a blue flag hanging out my back side..."

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:42 (nineteen years ago)

The two of them should rerecord "Stop the Gunfight" by Trapp.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/observer/archives/David_Cameron.jpg

"Running from the police, picture that
Nigga I'm too fat..."

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:48 (nineteen years ago)

Mike Read is considering going into politics.

Perhaps I read that here.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/images/400/mikereid_1.jpg

"FACKING SEND 'EM BACK!!"

James Herbert Dip (noodle vague), Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

"This beat is my recital
I think it's very vital
To rock
A rhyme
That's right
On time
IT'S RICKAAAAAY"

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 October 2006 12:03 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's the "BAN THIS FRANKIE FILTH AND DO THE VOICEOVER FOR THEIR ALBUM AD" Mike Read.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 October 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

*SSSSSH MARCELLO YOU'RE SPOILING IT* [/stage whisper]

James Herbert Dip (noodle vague), Thursday, 19 October 2006 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

Does this mean that on election night all the candidates will have to do the Runaround?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 October 2006 12:20 (nineteen years ago)

It's better than first past the post.

James Herbert Dip (noodle vague), Thursday, 19 October 2006 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

g-g-g-g-g-g-g-goooooo (back where you came from)

ONIMO's fish might turn into lizards (GerryNemo), Thursday, 19 October 2006 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

You haven't lived until you've heard Mike "Pat" Reid doing "Freezin' Cold In 89 Tuso."

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 October 2006 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

Any time we mention Rhymefest is a good time to mention this peach of a post from his Myspace blog:


As we all know by now, my highly-anticipated and critically-acclaimed debut album BLUE COLLAR sold about 15,000 copies during the first week. As it stands now in the mass-marketing, single-driven genre of Hip-Hop music, this is considered a flop or a failure. Or is it?

-Akon, the well-known R&B star, sold about 5,000 copies his first week. And now, he holds a platinum plaque for his debut album TROUBLE.
-Lyfe Jennings: 6,000 copies his first week; also platinum.
-Maroon 5: 3,000 copies their first week; now multi-platinum.

While none of these artists that I named are rappers, they all understood the ingredients for success:
1)good music,
2)touring & great stage shows,
3)humble attitudes (checking their ego at the door), and finally
4)never giving up.

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 October 2006 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=48635297&blogID=173185725&MyToken=017fb3a2-3279-4eb6-a309-7a6c6b4e67ef

I'm scheduled to travel to the UK in October in order to have this dialogue about Hip-Hop with Mr. Cameron in front of MTV and BBC cameras.

Doesn't exactly sound "totally private".

ONIMO's fish might turn into lizards (GerryNemo), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

As we all know by now, my highly-anticipated and critically-acclaimed political party THE CONSERVATIVES only managed 198 seats during the last election. As it stands now in the mass-marketing, single-driven genre of mainstream politics, this is considered a flop or a failure. Or is it?

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

About one month ago, I wrote a letter to a member of the UK Parliament named Mr. David Cameron, whose mission is to get Hip-Hop music banned in England because of what he described as its gun & knife culture. I wrote to him about artists like Common, Talib Kweli, as well as myself. [Click HERE to read the letter.] I challenged him to let me perform for him and have dialogue with him about the importance of Hip-Hop in the community, as well as in the political arena. I never expected a response. However, an English paper found my letter, published it and created a public pressure for Mr. Cameron to meet with me. I'm scheduled to travel to the UK in October in order to have this dialogue about Hip-Hop with Mr. Cameron in front of MTV and BBC cameras. Whoever thought that the power of the pen was truly mightier than the sword? Coming from a ghetto on the South Side of Chicago, I know I didn't. Well, maybe now it's time for me to accept my responsibility, face my trial in life and take my place in history.

So much for humble attitudes, eh Rhymefest?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

whose mission is to get Hip-Hop music banned in England because of what he described as its gun & knife culture.

No gun and knife culture in Scotland, oh no sirree. Or Wales. Or Northern Ireland. That's the kind of educated voice we need to make a point to Cameron, oh yes.

Also if he doesn't think the pen is mightier than the sword, why is he putting himself forward as the chief proponent of the belief that music doesn't incite violence? Swords = teh answer, words do fuck all, er, oh hang on...

ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

I think you're reading a bit too much into it. Saying "the pen is mightier than the sword" doesn't necessarily mean that certain writing incites violence, just that words can be powerful. It's a metaphor.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

Duh, really?!

ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha

ONIMO's fish might turn into lizards (GerryNemo), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

(but, y'know, it's not the smartest cliche to use under the circumstances)

ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 19 October 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

The BBC encouraged David Cameron to commit knife and gun crimes???

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 19 October 2006 16:12 (nineteen years ago)


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