C/D: rainbow-hued gay Pride paraphernalia, and the like

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At what year of outness should it be purged from your home and person?Or does it not embarrass you after 4-5 years? And would this (source unknown) change your mind?

The pride flag does not dress itself in rainbow hues simply to symbolize diversity...

As legend has it, Ms. Renee Beau, Queen of the Rainbow circa 1899 was a famous Madame and flawless drag queen, in Old New Orleans' gay days of yore. Ms Renee's customers would wait with great anticipation for the late spring night when her girls, would parade up and down the parlor floor each dressed in a single color of the rainbow. I use the term girls loosely here, for there were boys in fishnets and girls wearing primitive phalli attached to their best unmentionables.

Of course, the customers weren't there just for a show in technicolor...it happened to be the only night when Renee's girls, her customers, and even Ms. Renee herself, would engage in horny partying the likes of which was unheard of even in Sin City. As the story has it, in the wee hours of the morning, Ms. Renee would reach for her longest cigarette holder, gracefully light a cigarette, and say lovingly to her minions, "Now where else can you go to fuck every color of the rainbow?"

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

I knew it was you posting this.

It means nothing to me. Maybe I'm too young to understand its significance.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

OUCH!

I can understand it meaning more to the newly out (or young -- or maybe I'm wrong, it means little to Gen Y queers) or people in Middle America. But the group-identity need has to be strong for it to persist, I guess.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

It means nothing to me.

Oh Viennapaws.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

I don't like rainbows, hearts, candy, and pink bears either, if that helps.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

tacky. rainbow crap is a strong refutation to the stereotype that all gay men have good taste.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

along with post-1965 Broadway and, well, what they wear.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

I can understand it meaning more to the newly out

It doesn't. I have some recent experience with them.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

OK. So it's largely for boomers who won't move on, then?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

Not just for ~~Christmas~~ gays...

http://greatergoodsonline.com/shop/images/Rainbowpeace.jpg

― Crimea River (Mark C), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.rainbowdepot.com/ProductImages/flags/1794.jpg

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

In my mind the rainbow has become identical with queer politics in such a way that whenever I see a rainbow in some context that's not visibly gay, my first thought is, "Wow, a gay copy shop/massage parlour/car repair shop/etc!", until I remember that other people can use it too, without knowing about its gay meanings.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

As for "it means nothing for me", there was the international day against homophobia last month, and I was at a local gay club where they had a fundraising night with speeches and music. During one speech I overheard a couple of young guys sitting next to me talking about how boring it all was, and when will the music start. It made me kinda sad.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

my first thought is, "Wow, a gay copy shop/massage parlour/car repair shop/etc!", until I remember that other people can use it too, without knowing about its gay meanings.

http://www.porterfieldsfineart.com/josephholodook/images/leprechaun72.jpg

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

So that's what they mean by 'frosted lucky charms.'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I understand its political implications, but I just never had a need to identify myself as such. People know I'm queer, and if they don't they find out soon enough.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply anyone's not queer enough if they don't care about the rainbow, it was just a general lament on how queer politics should still be considered relevant, since we don't live in a world free of homophobia, far from it.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

I pretty much associate Gay Pride with heat, uncomfortable crowds, and bad music.

other people can use it too, without knowing about its gay meanings.

As with straight guys who have red hankies hanging from their back pocket?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I have to admit that I take it for granted that "gay pride" to me translates to "bring a book."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

Meaning I live in Minneapolis instead of, say... here.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

Miami is one giant rainbow flag anyway.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

(xpost)

(Hmm... I wasn't aware that the story on those two had changed a bit in the last few months, w.r.t the abduction/rape of a minor stuff.)

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

(xy post)

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.poprocks.com/journ/art/xy_magazine.gif

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

Miami is one giant rainbow flag anyway.

I came so close to saying so, but never having visited...

So rainbow flare is just the most obvious symptom of US Pride fests being about shopping instead of civil rights. Can we wear green carnations instead?

(As I was leaving the ghosttown of Asbury Park last weekend, the New Jersey Pridefest there carried a $10 admission fee. and was sponsored by a lube maker.)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

(As I was leaving the ghosttown of Asbury Park last weekend, the New Jersey Pridefest there carried a $10 admission fee.

A new defintion for getting fucked in the ass.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

aren't ALL pride festivals sponsored by lube manufacturers these days?

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

or Bud Light.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

(which doesn't work as well)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

Heineken will do.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

I prefer drinking spit.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Dream date: attending the annual gay-pride edition of "Too Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind" at the Neo-Futurarium (three short blocks from my apartment) with Dr. Morbius.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:32 (nineteen years ago)

jaymc, I thought since you have a gf now we weren't gonna make out?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:39 (nineteen years ago)

OOOOOH!

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

She can watch.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

so is she acquainted with your, erm, dormant predilections?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

jaymc has a flag with the Kinsey scale on it.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:48 (nineteen years ago)

I don't really understand the need for a LEATHER pride flag, either...

http://www.goodcatch.com/ht/ar/LeatherFlag.JPG

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

Bisexual pride flag:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Bi_flag.svg/450px-Bi_flag.svg.png

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

so long as jaymc and I can still flirt after karaoke he can go all Tab Hunter on us as long as he likes.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

Transgender pride flag:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b0/Transgender_Pride_flag.svg/800px-Transgender_Pride_flag.svg.png

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

Hahahaha

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/20/Queer_Pagan_Flag.svg/350px-Queer_Pagan_Flag.svg.png

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

Bear pride:

http://www.wright-counseling.com/Images/bearpride.gif

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

ah, smell the fragmentation.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, she's aware.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 June 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

The bear flag looks a lot like the doormat I bought at Target last week.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

We're here, we're queer, we don't want any more bears!

― Crimea River (Mark C), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

xpost
I'm sure you could've gotten an actual bear for that!

My shut-in Pride could be sponsored by Stoli Vanil.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

the leather pride flag is pretty cute. i'd wear a shirt that looked like that, maybe

― phil-two (phil-two), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

The leather and bear flags are prominently displayed on the sign for Touche, the only gay bar (that I know of) in Rogers Park.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

http://pridetheu2show.com/images/pride_splash_90.jpg

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

btw, there's a Gay Shame event tomorrow in San Francisco:

http://www.indybay.org/calendar/event_display_detail.php?event_id=10471

"We will not be satisfied with a commercialized gay identity that denies the intrinsic links between queer struggle and challenging power. We seek nothing less than a new queer activism that foregrounds race, class, gender and sexuality, to counter the self-serving “values” of gay consumerism and the increasingly hypocritical left. We are dedicated to fighting the rabid assimilationist monster with a devastating mobilization of queer brilliance."

I don't see one for NYC; it usta be in this squat/loft in Dumbo a few years ago, pretty hippie/vegan but fun.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

I'm happy with it. I always had mixed feelings about the use of the pink triangle. On the one hand, it symbolised the events of the past, and they do deserve to be marked and respected. On the other, it gave the message "look how victimised we are". And that in itself perpetuates a stereotype.

I don't have a problem with there being a symbol, or image to unify. And one that suggests diversity within unity (because, if you can't embrace diversity, how the hell ARE you going to have unity?) is perfect for the task. Sure, its cliched. I don't have rainbow flags in my house. If I did, it would relate more to my hippy leanings than my gay identity (although I'm trying to go minimalist hippy these days)..but I respect those that do find this useful.

I suppose you're correct that its more for the early years of coming out, and coming to terms with yourself. Although that isn't necessarily a rapid process- socialisation lingers a lot longer than we like to think. But these public symbols and expressions of identity should mean something even to us old cynics. Just an acknowledgement of some greater movement that we're connected to, whether we like it or not, because without that movement we wouldn't have half the rights we have to do.

And thats why the visibility is so important, because it challenges some of that marginalisation we've all experienced. I'll take that cliche over Queer Eye for the Fucking Straight Guy any day.

The rest of the flags? Well, if I'm going to have one, I don't see why everybody else shouldn't. Although the original flag is meant to symbolise diversity, the gay community isn't always quite so quick to accept those that are a little bit different - at least those that aren't different in the way they're SUPPOSED to be different.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

You have to remember that at the time ACT UP popularized the pink triangle use, the American (and other) governments were complicit in ignoring AIDS as much as possible; it WAS an era of victimization. It resonated for the right reasons.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:40 (nineteen years ago)

Although AIDS was first reported in the medical and popular press in 1981, it was only in October 1987 that President Reagan publicly spoke about the epidemic. By the end of that year 59,572 AIDS cases had been reported and 27,909 of those women and men had died. How could this happen? How could Reagan not say anything? Do anything?

― lord pooperton (ex machina), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:42 (nineteen years ago)

When I lived in the little Long Island town of Bay Shore, our across-the-street neighbors (and gay bar owners) had a flagpole with the leather flag flying from it. I don't think there was a single non-homosexualist person on our street who had any clue as to what it meant: I mean, my mom didn't even know the rainbow flag had any special meaning.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

How could Reagan not say anything? Do anything?

AIDS is a four letter word? Inability to think about anything that wasn't rosy? When Michael Reagan admitted that he had been molested as a child, Reagan reportedly stared into nothingness and stayed quiet.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

Alfred, got link about that?

― lord pooperton (ex machina), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

-- Dr Morbius (wjwe...), June 9th, 2006.

I didn't really know what all that was about at the time. My knowledge of that era is pretty shameful. I first came out in the early 90s and didn't reflect on why the pink triangle should have been adopted in such a manner. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

Alfred, got link about that?

Edmund Morris' 1999 bio quoted Michael Reagan's autobiography.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:59 (nineteen years ago)

How do you feel about "gay shame"?

I like the idea of protesting against what the perceived Gay Identity (although the very idea of there being one gay identity is pretty dodgy) has become but the terminology doesn't seem helpful, even when presented humorously.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 9 June 2006 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

it was only in October 1987 that President Reagan publicly spoke about the epidemic

i thought he did this in '85 (shortly after his buddy rock hudson admitted to having it)? in either case, not soon enough.

― joseph (joseph), Friday, 9 June 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

I think the administration 'addressed' it -- ie, acknowledged its existence -- but RWR didn't utter the word "AIDS" til '87.

Perhaps the beating the other night of drag star Kevin Aviance -- at 14th at 1st, a major intersection near several gay bars, and with no assistance from all the passersby - will result in some actual queer political demos in NYC this month:

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2006/06/11/unacceptable_dr.php

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 June 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

Are you implying that people didn't help this guy because he was gay?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

No, but because they are contemporary New Yorkers. Rich Democrats, mostly.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:16 (nineteen years ago)

so what are you demonstrating for/against and with whom?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not, right now. How about increased police presence on a major thoroughfare so such a friendly 'gayborhood' like the EV doesn't have potentially deadly assaults by packs of thugs?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 June 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

1. Broked Winders school of criminology (which has been very, very, very good to NYC, especially the bits under the ground) sez EV doesn't need as much police presence as other neighborhoods which actually have endemic violence and other problems

2. From that gothamist link: "Even in the bad old days of crackheads and Bowery drunks you at least had the sense that if you were being beaten on the street that someone would come and try and help out..." Oh, I love that you can get paid to write about NYC goings-on and not even remember Kitty Genovese.

3. Conclusion: Protest against the East Village nightlife for being wusses and letting down one of their own.

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:06 (nineteen years ago)

well, Genovese was what, 1964? (at least one pol, our new lesbian city council prez, mentioned her.) I think ppl walking by had a more immediate chance of stopping this than KG's neighbors (whose major omission was not calling the cops).

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, I love that you can get paid to write about NYC goings-on and not even remember Kitty Genovese.

"Sleeping through Psych 101"

― lord pooperton (ex machina), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

Kitty Genovese: What you think you know about the case might not be true.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

Didn't one of Kitty Genovese's neighbors actually call the cops?

x-post, I was thinking of that link, Michael.

Well at least somethings never change in 40 years - like sloppy reporting from The New York Times!

― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

And to bring it back to rainbows and gay pride, the Sunday Styles said Judy Garland died the first night of the Stonewall riots.

― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

what about the reality-based genovese story changes anything we know about bystander syndrome (or "a failure of civil courage," sounds more managerial)?

the only people to blame, at any rate, are the fucking perps, who have been caught and charged.

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

what about the reality-based genovese story changes anything we know about bystander syndrome (or "a failure of civil courage," sounds more managerial)?

Well, that the Genovese case probably isn't quite the damning example of it as folk legend would have it: IIRC, the people who witnessed what happened didn't really see or hear all that much, and even the people who *saw* her get stabbed probably had no idea what exactly was actually going on, and that there were people who did try to help.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

you're gay do you know that do you?

― Breean Weldrick (weldrick), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, Judy Garland's funeral was on the day preceeding the riots, and I know Martin Duberman takes pains in Stonewall to disavow any meaningful connection between the two. IIRC, A bunch of the rioters were too young to care very much about Judy Garland.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:48 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, Judy Garland's funeral was on the day preceeding the riots

And therefore couldn't have died on the first night of the riots.

― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

Judy Garland died when Hollywood Killed Her Soul.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 12 June 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think ACT-UP were the ones who popularized the pink triangle for the modern gay movement, although they certainly did use it consistantly. I mean, I came out when ACT-UP was at its peak, but it seems like I've seen a lot of pink triangles from things dated before that -- and ACT-UP's triangle points up, not down as most do.

I can remember being 17 and feeling it was absolutely obligatory to march in the Gay Pride Parade and own a set of rainbow rings. But I never wore the rings often and I didn't enjoy walking in the parade. Now, of course, I no longer feel it's obligatory even to have teh gay sex.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 12 June 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

Well, nothing "obligatory" should pass gay muster!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

You'd think!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

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