"Don't Falter" is by a MILLION MILES the greatest record ever made

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(by Mint Royale + Lauren Laverne)

I dug it out for the first time in months today and am bouncing off the fucking ceiling.

― Graham, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pass me the Dr Pepper

― Graham, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You are on crack.

― RickyT, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, just in love.

― Graham, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Don't Falter is the worst kind of pop pastiche. Its relentlessly perky upbeat pop grates by the time the second verse comes around and Laverne (never a good singer) sounds like she has supped too much helium as it sounds reedy thin on the high notes. This is St Etienne lite at its best.

― Pete, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think you'll find 'Legal Man' or 'Wake Up Boo!' is the worst kind of pop pastiche. 'Don't Falter' is quite cute. I like the 'when I'm with you it's always summer' line.

― N., Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Legal Man does not sound like pop, so not really a pastiche of anything (except the theme tune to Eurotrash) Wake Up! Boo is a proper pop record as it got in the top ten is dark and I think works extraordinarily. Its not its fault that it comes from a terrible album and from a band who everyone wanted not to be making records like Wake Up Boo. A million breakfast DJ's crnt be wrong.

― Pete, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pop = being in the Top 10. I admire the economy of your definition.

― N., Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

DO YOU LIKE FROGS? I THINK THEY'RE POSITIVELY BATTY.

― Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No that's bats sweety.

― Graham, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Right, i'm off to make a fool of myself (ie Risk my heart etc) re: being in love. Wish me luck.

― Graham, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Luck wished. But Rainy will cry at your perfidity.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, she says we can still be computer lovers, cos that's different.

(In yer face once more, Raggett)

― Graham, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Shouldn't you be out with this trollop you're cheating on Rainy with? Go away now. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Don't Falter" is by a MILLION MILES the greatest record ever made"

Graham speaks THE TRUTH!

― DavidM, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I suppose I'd better say what happenned: I've just been to apologise to L (=Belle and Sebastian/Sex?/etc) (guess my T-shirt), after worrying all week about what to say, but as soon as mention last week she says "That's alright [difficult pause] I would invite you in, but I'm just going to bed now" (no rowr comments please), then we just grinned at each other for a bit, me [and her] desperately wanting to say something, but after a few seconds we waved goodbye, and she manages a "see you 'round".

Now I'm sitting here enjoying A Century Of Elvis, and she is so sweet.

― Graham, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*merry* I am glad. :-)

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ah, Pete, she may suck as a singer - but she has sexy feet.

― Kodanshi, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Lauren has a lovely voice! But she was the least sexy member of Kenickie by a screaming country mile. Gimme Gimme Emmy Kate

― electric sound of jim, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Graham, I didn't say we could be computer lovers (ew), I said that computer luv is different!

― rainy, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

GET THE ALBUM, GRAHAM. On the Ropes is one of those *fun* albums.

― Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I will investigate Alan.

Pete: You use "relentlessly perky" like it's a bad thing, and your criteria for "St. Etienne lite" seems to be that this isn't dark or moody or stylish (Doesn't that make SE "DF lite"). I thought you were meant to be pro-pop. Just fuck off you miserable cunt.

Rainy makes the best point on this thread.

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am pro-pop. I don't think Don't Falter is pop. It wants to be pop ( a problem I have with much of St Etienne as well) but is disingenuously aimed at people who don't like pop.

― Pete, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

don't falter is indeed a great record. not sure about it being st etienne lite though (that would be a compliment if so), i like lauren lavernes voice. i wonder if criticism of records like this is down to the fact that it is a pop record made by an 'indie' group, and that there is a certain amount of baggage associated with that (detractors arguing, yes but you only like pop when made by indie dudes like this, whether this is the case or not)

anyway, it is a very good single i reckon

― gareth, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

hey! as i was posting my comment, pete slipped in first saying much the same thing but from the other side

― gareth, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it's an apalling single, and I liked Kenickie and I like Saint Etienne and I love the idea of indie groups making pop records but most of them tend to be bad at it (cf "Wake Up Boo!"). Most great song-based pop has elements of sadness or melodrama - these are things indie bands are not unfamiliar with but they don't associate them with pop so leave them out when they come to make a pop record. Which leaves euphoria, the counterpoint to the sadness or drama - but the sonic stakes in euphoria have been raised by dance music, and chirpy wordy sugary records like "Don't Falter" just sound weak to me.

― Tom, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mint Royale surely = dance(-ish)?

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mint Royale are dance for people who don't like dance, to nick Pete's idea. Actually it's hard to think of a great purely euphoric record - they're always tinged with sorrow or mania.

― Tom, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

a great purely euphoric record

Krome & Time ~ Sound is for the Underground

― gareth, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dont remember the track but almost all hardcore falls into the "tinged with mania" bracket for me.

― Tom, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

OK, why is "Wake Up Boo" so villified? It got over exposed, sure, but people get so worked up about it that you'd be tempted to think it had some sort of fascist sentiment buried in there or something? It's a really nice tune, something I can imagine the Monkeys singing, sort of I'm A Believer style thing.

― Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It combined a tune that was memorable but in a bullying kind of way with Sice's watery voice. Overexposure has nothing to do with it - I thought it was wretched from listen 1.

― Tom, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bullying? do you mean it was the sort of tune that says "Hey, this is a memorable tune and we know it, plus you better remember this or you'll be laughed at by your peers"?

― Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah pretty much, except change the last bit to "you're going to remember it whether you like it or not".

Thesis: all Summer songs by indie bands are duff. Indie is not Summer music.

― Tom, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

wake up boo is awful awful awful. irritating watery shit, tune copied off a radio advert for patio doors and windows.

Thesis: all Summer songs by indie bands are duff. Indie is not Summer music.

not necessarily true, i think indie does that late summer on the porch type music really well, Drop Nineteens ~ Kick The Tragedy is a great indie summer song

― gareth, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i. What does anything have to do with St Etienne? The only song it sounds anything like is You're In A Bad Way, which has the greatest first 2 seconds of any record ever, but then disappoints because the perkiness relents.

ii. This idea that great pop must have sadness is entirely your idea Tom. It has nothing to do with the song and certainly nothing to do with me.

iii. Anyway, it does have sadness in it (cf. "You must decide to risk hour heart for love to find you", the fucking TITLE, etc). The song is about choosing to IGNORE possible sadness in love. If you want to be tenuous, there's implied sadness in every line, eg "When I'm with you it's always summer" => Lauren's happiness depends on person [x] ("you know we ought to be together") => "When I'm not with you it's [?????]"

Just cos you're better at expressing this, it doesn't make you right.

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

More to the point, Don't Falter = indie, how?

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

None of this explains the commercial success of the indie hit "Wake Up Boo".

― Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And more talk of me being in love please.

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Kenickie = Indie. Hence Lauren Laverne (the draw on the record since no-one knew who Mint Royale were) = indie. Me and Tom disagree wildly about the qualities of Wake Up Boo which has the sadness which he rightly describes. But I think Tom has a larger problem with horns anyway (phnar phnar). Sice's voice is a problem, but I think Tom wouldn't like a Tom Jones cover version of it either.

Dizzy is a purely euphoric record, and I shall attach no value judgement to that for now.

― Pete, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

but it sure as hell ain't indie Pete. but yup, very exuberant.

I like Don't falter fwiw, I find it uplifting, and nice to bop along to.

― chris, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like a bit of horn cf. "Reward" by the Teardrop Explodes. In fact I have been known to expound on the need for a return of horns to pop in the pub. If I could remember the horns on Wake Up Boo I would no doubt like it more.

Graham of course the sadness thing is my idea and you don't have to agree with it - however I was explaining why I thought "Don't Falter" is a poor record and why in general pop records made by indie stars are often poor - they fail in my view to understand the form.

Dont Falter must be indie because it gets played in Steve's set at Sussed and not in mine.

― Tom, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Don't Falter" is a poor record and why in general pop records made by indie stars are often poor - they fail in my view to understand the form.

Where does old satellite dish face Bextor come into this, admittedly she was hardly an indie star, but she was in that dreadful band, and now seems to be doing rather well for herself in Popworld.

― chris, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Where she comes into it is covered by the "in general" bit - mind you I've not heard the album. Actually maybe now is the time to start that Bextor vs Baxendale Taking Sides...

― Tom, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bextor doesn't right the songs now, and (if I remember rightly) she didn't write the songs then. Groovejet was never sold on her (admittedly minor) celebrity, I remember being surprised to find out it was her. And then she plays the pop game very well.

― Pete, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I spent a whole hour working out who did write theaudience songs (I was bored). I had to correlate the photos on the single sleeves (my dad has all of them (CD1 and CD2). It's the shy guy bottom right on the back of the LP.

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Right = write in most appalling spelling mistake I have ever, ever made. I feel it has completely undermined whatever argument I made. Sorry.

― Pete, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Blame Ronan

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have never heard 'Don't Falter' right through, but when I've heard snippets of it I've been reluctantly charmed. To that extent I think Tom E is wrong about it.

Tom E is spot-on about 'Wake Up Boo', though - his description of its ills is perfection.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Best reason for hating Wake Up Boo = the way it ends

― Graham, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Skipping 52 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

ME. im your 'motivation.'

deal with it indie boy.

― Wyndham Earl, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't need any motivation for saying sth is pop and not indie cos I'm not saying it. Whoever is saying it, on the other hand, presumably does have some reason for saying it.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm not entirely sure what you're position is Wyndham, but you do seem to have very definite notions of what indie is. If you're interested in arguing the point, you might want to look at threads on ILM like Is indie a genre? and run an ILM search on the word indie at the freefind search engine (top box). Every other thread there seems to end up in an argument about what 'indie' means.

― N., Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

you're position

Arrggh - 'your position'. I was just poking Nickie for doing the same thing earlier. I am v.tired and emotional.

― N., Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Kenickie certainly = indie. Proof? Minging drummer.

― DG, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Perfect argument. I think this thread has just ended with that devestating logic. (All though thinking about it, don't all drummers ming?)

― Pete, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I see no flaws in my argument.

― DG, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

okay

NEW TANGENT FOR THE THREAD:

DRUMMERS THAT DON'T MING

i'll start: tommy lee.

― Wyndham Earl, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Larry Mullen Jr.

The drummer in the Corrs.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dear lord, nominate somebody who knows what he or she is doing! Where's Phil Rudd when you need him?

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

LARRY MULLEN JUNIOR!!!

― Tom, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tara Reid. Bubbles.

― Graham, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think Larry Mullen Jr wins - he's got 2 votes, one in capitals.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Best Drummers: Nicko McBrian & Jimmy Chamberlin.

― jel, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The one in capitals should not be counted as a 'vote' for anything other than the swift arrival of men in white coats and big nets to come carry Pinefox away.

― Tom, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think "among the first to know" by the happy balloon and "en melody of an melody" by corniche camomile are two of my favourite indie pop songs.

― jel, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The problem I have with "Wake up Boo" is that I really like Everything's Allright Forever, and that just wasn't the Boo Radley's I had liked. So, I guess I like albums and not bands. Does that make me a rockcyst?

― jel, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

who the hell is tara reid anyway?

― Wyndham Earl, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

was she in the sonora pine?

― jel, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

[Josie and the Pussycats]

― Graham, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

oh yeah! d'oh! I was thinking of tara jane o'neil.

― jel, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

?? Tom, you're just trying to retract your emphatic vote for Mullen.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

David Narcizo doesn't ming. Does this mean Throwing Muses weren't indie?

― RickyT, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Taken literally, ALL drummers "ming".

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Phoebe Summersquash most certainly does not ming, but Small Factory most certainly were/are indie. See also Mimi Parker.

― Michael Jones, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Drummer that doesn't ming = world's nicest man = Joss

― chris, Friday, 1 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

five years pass...

old ilx = fuckin weird

― acrobat, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:23 (eighteen years ago)

Who knew you could get so much of a thread out of "Don't Falter"??

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:29 (eighteen years ago)

"Don't Falter" is a great, great single. You'd have to be Giles Coren not to love it.

For me the punctum is that lovely, exuberantly mannered 1961 single-note guitar line which runs throughout the song, like Michael Cox at the London Palladium. Striped jackets, reefers in the back pocket, probably was Derek Bailey.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:31 (eighteen years ago)

Good to see old ILM stopped posting about how great the Manics were to have this thread.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:33 (eighteen years ago)

I've heard the tune a few times at Club Poptimism so presumably some folk upthread have changed their minds since then.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:34 (eighteen years ago)

I are Giles Coren, apparently.

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:35 (eighteen years ago)

old ilx =! weird, it is simply that as ppl get older (some get wiser too) the things that are most imporatant to them change.

― Grandpont Genie, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:37 (eighteen years ago)

it's weird cos the world these people were in seems to be kind of gone. belle and sebastian fans be hitting 30 now. hell "is this it" will be six years old this year.

― acrobat, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:44 (eighteen years ago)

Aye, we've all made quite a journey since the 2001 days.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 28 June 2007 08:47 (eighteen years ago)

it's always me who plays don't falter and tom and pete look daggers at me every time...

― CarsmileSteve, Thursday, 28 June 2007 09:38 (eighteen years ago)

They're mental, you're right.

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 28 June 2007 09:41 (eighteen years ago)

o brave new world, and all that

― never acid again, Thursday, 28 June 2007 09:45 (eighteen years ago)

i wonder if they'd called ILX Poptimism or Pop! or Sussed or Freaky Trigger message board or something whether it would be like this thread nowadays.

― acrobat, Thursday, 28 June 2007 09:47 (eighteen years ago)

ILM still is isn't it?

― CarsmileSteve, Thursday, 28 June 2007 09:50 (eighteen years ago)

not really.

― acrobat, Thursday, 28 June 2007 09:52 (eighteen years ago)

it's always me who plays don't falter and tom and pete look daggers at me every time...

the correct response to this is, obv, "it's only a song" in the manner of Mike replying to Rick's "I still say locking girls in trunks is politically unsound" on the Young Ones' versh of Living Doll.

― Grandpont Genie, Thursday, 28 June 2007 09:52 (eighteen years ago)

Well, I feel sorry for the elephant!

― Mark G, Thursday, 28 June 2007 10:00 (eighteen years ago)

Come on guys.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 28 June 2007 10:00 (eighteen years ago)

aaaaa - gaaaaa --

― Mark G, Thursday, 28 June 2007 10:02 (eighteen years ago)

good song as is it's older sister 'Lonely Girl'

― blueski, Thursday, 28 June 2007 10:29 (eighteen years ago)

I still don't like Don't Falter, but I think I have reconciled it merely to a genereal dislike of Lauren Laverne rather then any qualities this single does or does not have.

― Pete, Thursday, 28 June 2007 10:42 (eighteen years ago)

I am not sure I would be as vociferous about it now either (or take quite so much time arguing about it).

I enjoyed reading the thread though.

I am amazed nobody used the word "twee"!

― Groke, Thursday, 28 June 2007 10:46 (eighteen years ago)

HURRAH. it's still a lovely song.

― Alan, Thursday, 28 June 2007 12:17 (eighteen years ago)

> belle and sebastian fans be hitting 30 now

ha ha ha. (SOBS).

― koogs, Thursday, 28 June 2007 12:20 (eighteen years ago)

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