Attn creative types: Learning Photoshop (and the whole of CS2, while I'm at it)...

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I've a friend who gets all of his answers to questions like this from a quick ILE search, usually with spectacular results, but this particular one yeilded no helpful results.

I'll be looking for a job soon, I've decided that I probably don't want another job in pharmacy. My roommate works at a photo firm doing retouches, among many other things. He tells me that it's rather hard for them to find people who know what they're doing in that area, and that if I could learn rather quick, he might know of an opening or two in the field.

Any advice as to the fastest way to learn how to properly use Photoshop, to the point where I could get paid doing basic yet professional level retouches? Is one of those massive paperbacks at Borders on the subject better than all the rest, or are they all rubbish? Do tell, and accept my thanks for having done so.

― En I See Kay. (EstrangedNative), Monday, 19 June 2006 12:35 (nineteen years ago)

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4228/ssrer1s9lj.jpg

― jinx hijinks (sanskrit), Monday, 19 June 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

I learned InDesign from the Classroom In A Book book. A few chapters a night, with glass of wine at my side. Then I bought the CIAB Photoshop book, because I was thinking the same thing as you, that it would be nice to have a little more than my paltry "just enough to do what I need to do" Photoshop chops and maybe get a job where I don't keep breaking my back. But my backbreaking work (landscaping) intervened and I haven't made it very far. I'll get back to it when thoings slow down.
Lots of the CIAB stuff is about alternative ways of doing the same thing. Using the palettes vs using the pull-down menus vs using keyboard commands, blah blah blah. In reality, you're going to do it one way, YOUR way. So you can make it through the book faster if you kind of zip through all that "whee, look how cool Adobe is! Six different ways to scroll! stuff.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 19 June 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

I never could get anything out of books like that until I had the rudiments of the program down already. What worked for me was being thrown in the deep end with an assignment and a deadline. After a while, I could pick up something like Jack Davis' "Photoshop Wow Book" and understand the steps involved in creating an effect. I think a book with good tutorials would work better for InDesign.

― Offisa Pump (Rock Hardy), Monday, 19 June 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

the real money retouching stuff, you'd have to take a class probably, or really study one of those books then learn on the job. It also really helps to be able to draw.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 19 June 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

Money retouching? Like adding zeros?
I know, I know.
Of course, once you're using a program, the tutorials stick better. I'm always tempted to ditch whole sections of the book, thinking "screw it, I'll NEVER want to do that. Old photos look GREAT all faded and scratched!" I just force myself to go through the exercises. Of course, if I'm not actively using the procedure it falls right out of my brain. But some ghost might remain in the memory banks, making it easier to pick up on that mythical future day when I actually need to apply it.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 19 June 2006 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

My husband signed up for an InDesign class and all the instructor did was have people go through the CIAB book.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 19 June 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

The best training is someone showing you, I find. Can't your roomate show you the bits you need? Basic retouching is not all that difficult. We used to show people how to do it in a day or so, but they were photographers so already had the eye for it.

― stet (stet), Monday, 19 June 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

The Peachpit Press books are great if you're looking for something that will pretty much break everything down for you. They're like instruction manuals. They should be included with the software. You can easily jump around to whatever you want to learn and safely ignore what you don't.

Mostly, though, I would advise just doing it as much as possible. I've learned way more about the CS2 stuff by just trial and error-ing my way through stuff than I did in four years of graphic design classes.

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 19 June 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

a lot of it you can really only learn on the job. Books may mention stuff like ink density, but untill you're confronted by it it doesn't really sink in.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 19 June 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

+1 for the Peachpit Visual Quickstart guides.

― caek (caek), Monday, 19 June 2006 16:41 (nineteen years ago)

In addition to whatever training book/class you take, you'll want one of those Graphire tablets (the cheap ones are suitable for standard photo work - dodging/burning/etc. - but you'll want the more sensitive model for retouching) for your practice sessions, if your roomie doesn't have one at home.

Learning with a mouse makes it far more difficult.

― milo z (mlp), Monday, 19 June 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

milo OTM++, retouching is difficult without a Wacom-style pen & tablet. I've watched people good at retouching in photoshop and they rarely use any fancy filters, just the airbrush at varying sizes and pressures, judicious use of the blur tool, and occasionaly the clone stamp - the new healing stamp in CS2 is a boon and one tool that isnt a gimmick, as it clones and allows for the correct tonal range somehow in the process.

For Pshop basics though I too recommend the Visual Quickstart guides.

Where's Thermo, he should have some tips.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 03:01 (nineteen years ago)

don't use brightness/contrast at all, learn to use LEVELS

― Q('.'Q) (eman), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 03:05 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.seinfeld-fan.net/pictures/kramer/kramer005.jpg

― S- (sgh), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 03:55 (nineteen years ago)

learn to use CURVES!!

(i think)

Dan Selzer OTM.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 04:14 (nineteen years ago)

Adobe has tutorials on their website, and there are good tutorials on about.com, both for free. Might as well do those before you drop cash on a Peachpit book.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 04:19 (nineteen years ago)

I can't recommend the Photoshop Killer Tips vidcast highly enough. They're all short and are actually helpful in getting work done.

― LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 05:02 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, photoshop has, at best, fifteen useful tools and control panels. the rest is just there to jack up the price and impress the peasants.

so, learn to use the airbrush, clone/healing stamps, blur, sharpen (careful), curves, levels, and batch processing (good for boxes of photos that have all been damaged in the same way), and do it on the job.

― lf (lfam), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 05:47 (nineteen years ago)

QUICK MASK!!!!!!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

When I retouch, I only use airbrush and opacity, however I kind of go for an indian movie poster look which is probably a fairly specialised look that isn't handy in most applications.

― I woke up feelin' brand new, I jumped up feeling my highs and my lows... (papa n, Tuesday, 20 June 2006 12:13 (nineteen years ago)

http://static.flickr.com/19/163443869_09efa8d995.jpg

― I woke up feelin' brand new, I jumped up feeling my highs and my lows... (papa n, Tuesday, 20 June 2006 12:14 (nineteen years ago)

you a pierre et gilles fan?

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

Used to be.

― I woke up feelin' brand new, I jumped up feeling my highs and my lows... (papa n, Tuesday, 20 June 2006 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

Also LAB mode is fantastic for separating colours.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha i was JUST NOW sorting through a hell of a lot of old papers, and ran across an info sheet from the only class from 1995 in which i received a "B" - a RISD cross-credit course all about PHOTOSHOP ... the stapled paper explained the different ways of creating a HALFTONE SCREEN - !!!

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 15:06 (nineteen years ago)

Kate! You are a total genius. That is exactly the effect I go for in a flower bed. If it doesn't bruise your retina, what use is it?

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 00:11 (nineteen years ago)

Exactly!

― I woke up feelin' brand new, I jumped up feeling my highs and my lows... (papa n, Wednesday, 21 June 2006 00:16 (nineteen years ago)

I like how RISD is pronounced. I wish I knew more about Web design. Has anyone taken courses through oreillylearning.com?

― youn (youn), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 00:18 (nineteen years ago)

ORLY?LEARNING.COM

― Q('.'Q) (eman), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 00:36 (nineteen years ago)

fuck a $500 photoshop (unless it comes preloaded on yr work Mac)

get paint dot net at http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/paint.net/

its freeware, has all features of PS, color curves, layers, etc, etc. I use it for all of my ILX .jpg ad hominem attacks.

― jinx hijinks (sanskrit), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 01:45 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...

How do you do an outline of an object on Photoshop? I know how to do it with text using expand by 1 pixel, but that technique doesn't work when the object is more complex (ie. any object that isn't symmetrical).

― Affectian (Affectian), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:59 (nineteen years ago)

it depends how it's going to be used in the end. You can use the pen tool to draw a path. Or you can use Quickmask to create a selection which can then be saved as an alpha channel, or converted to a path or whatever. If you're not using quickmask, look it up, it's like 60% of photoshop.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:05 (nineteen years ago)

the magic wand tool, ja?
but what are the definitions of "anti alias" and "contiguous" etc?

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

anti-alias means does the selection have a hard defined edge or is it a bit blurry.

contiguous means if you select on a color with the magic wand, do you want it to select that color everywhere in the image, or just what it's touching.

Let's say you want to outline a handbag. NOT a hypothetical example, btwl. You'd use the magic wand to select outside of the bag. Then you'd hold down shift and click again on the background within the strap, so you basically have everything BUT the bag selected. However, it's never perfect, so you click the letter q turning on Quick Mask. In Quick Mask mode, what you paint becomes the selection when you turn Quick Mask off. Or the opposite, it's up to you, so selection isn't only about drawing with the marquee, it's about using the paintbrush and eraser or airbrush or whatever to "paint" the selection. Use this mode to clean up the selection, then switch out of quick mask At this point you have everything that ISN'T the object selected. Or the opposite depending on how you use quickmask. Invert the selection if needed so you have the object silhouetted, then under selection, "save the selection" to an alpha channel. Then you have the selection saved forever and ever and some programs can see and use these alpha channels to create masks.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

quickmask is just essential though. For instance, turn on quick mask, then paint with a 50% opacity brush, then turn off quickmask. Now you have a selection that isn't opaque!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:36 (nineteen years ago)

i see

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:52 (nineteen years ago)

it drives everyone at my work nuts, but i'd almost always opt to just zoom in as far as is reasonable and select things individually. this has made me a very quick selector over the years, though.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:55 (nineteen years ago)

with the marquee or in quick mask you mean? using quickmask would make it much more graceful and subtle then shift-clicking around with the lasso.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:58 (nineteen years ago)

weirdly i never ever use quickmask

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 07:46 (nineteen years ago)

me either

― i'll mitya halfway (mitya), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 08:15 (nineteen years ago)

never

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 08:16 (nineteen years ago)

To the original poster:
Can't you at least pay for a couple of design courses before you drop out, pirate software and join the industry? It would make me feel at least a little bit better. It's bad enough already that people just think we push buttons, but even worse if they start believing you can get up to snuff for a professional career by asking a few questions online.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

quickmask makes life so much easier and is so simple to use.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:39 (nineteen years ago)

So why don't you marry it Dan.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:46 (nineteen years ago)

live trace in illustrator!

― . . .and a soda on the side (Molly Jones), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

No Dan I totally agree with you though, I'm agog that some of our so-called graphic designers don't use that. I guess you could do what I used to do -- TEN YEARS AGO -- and use the eraser tool like a maniac, which basically accomplishes the same thing (but less flexibly).

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:56 (nineteen years ago)

Just make a clipping path - the pen tool is not that difficult. I never use quick mask, myself.

Can anyone tell me what the best format to use is when I'm saving a 2-channel photoshop file (K + pantone)?

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

i just use the lasso tool variations usually as i've got pretty good and quick at 'drawing' around objects with it manually over ten years or so, but there's the caveat right there. dan's advice is totally sound whether you're novice or pro tho.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

Can anyone tell me what the best format to use is when I'm saving a 2-channel photoshop file (K + pantone)?

DCS 2.0 EPS file...it may not preview well in quark, may not even rip correctly to many laser printers, but that's the only way I've ever done it. To test it out, just print seperations, or open it in InDesign and preview seperations.

The quickmask is better then just erasing when you use it in conjunction with a variety of other tools.

The pen tool is the proper way to silo objects of course, but hair can be a bitch. If you're just doing stuff in photoshop and are collaging things and need to make selections that aren't all either yes or no is it selected, but has shades of selection, the pen tool is useless. I'll use magic wand/quick mask to make a selection then "make work path" to do a nasty path, good for some uses but usually needs cleaning up.

And yes, I am going to marry Quickmask! The clone stamp is going to be the bride of honor!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:18 (nineteen years ago)

maid of honor!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah - I like doing a gradient in quickmask and then applying a filter to that selection. Why? Just because I can. Quickmask is such a ho.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

watch it, that's my fiance yr talking about.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

So I guess I'm off to play with quickmask, then. (No offense, Dan.)

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

Woops - sorry bro. I was drunk man, sorry.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

That's what I was using – DSC – but I couldn't (at the time of my post) seem to get it to make a pdf from InDesign with it. All is good now tho, thanks.

I just finished giving a coworker grief for doing all his shadows using quick masks - since there was about 4 or 5 shadows and he did a QM for each there wound up being weird gaps of whitespace and overlapping chunks. If he'd used a clipping path it would be right there for him to go back to and base his next clipping on so the lines would line-up. if that makes any sense.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

he could also have just saved the initial selection as an alpha channel.

DCS files can be troublesome sometimes when dealing with things like PDFs, on screen preview, laser printing, but when the separate in the end, that's all that matters.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

Tell that to the client!

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

dude, for YEARS I used to have make flattened composite tiffs to swap out for DCS files so we could print comps of packaging for the US Postal Service.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

SAVE YOUR CHANNELS PEOPLE, YE GODS!!

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

two years pass...

Deke McClelland is the awesome god of Photoshop instructors. I'm doing his Channels and Masks (CS4) book right now, and it's just incredibly dense with great information and techniques. Each chapter has an introductory vid where he shows some of the techniques in the book, and the book has meticulous step-by-step exercises where Deke explains what's going on in detail, sometimes incredibly meticulous detail. E.g., in Chapter 6, which I just finished, there's an extraneous section (not sure what to call it) where he explains the mathematics of some of the blend modes.

Earlier, when I had my free month of Lynda.com, I watched his entire series on sharpening. Just for fun, he showed that the sharpening filters are convenient but redundant, by recreating their effects exactly using just blur and apply image. He's that incredibly anal. Dude is pretty clear, tho, at least at the level he's teaching, which isn't beginner.

I'm sure I'll be referring back in C&M plenty, since it's impossible to retain all of it on the first go. When I'm done, I'll probably get another one of his books.

― plenty chong (libcrypt), Monday, 23 March 2009 01:59 (sixteen years ago)

Hot tip, for real. There is so much PS that I don't know.

― tits akimbo (kenan), Monday, 23 March 2009 02:16 (sixteen years ago)

two years pass...

<3 Lynda

― A41 (admrl), Saturday, 13 August 2011 00:33 (fourteen years ago)

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