Billy Wilder, the genre-jumper who would be 100 years old on June 22

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

We know what Alfred thinks -- VULGAR! -- and that everyone seems to agree on The Apartment's worth here. I'd say besides the best adultery/corporate comedy he did the best adultery crime meller (Double Indemnity), a hugely underrated post-WW2-Berlin-rubble comedy (A Foreign Affair), and was a heckuva writer before he ever directed: Midnight, Ninotchka, Ball of Fire. He even did a couple good films past 65, Avanti! and Fedora, got maximum value of the Icon Monroe and created the Icons Lemmon & Matthau.

Not a cynic, a self-described "curdled romantic."

So, isn't he a bit o' terrific?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

he's great!

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

I'll watch pretty much anything with Wilder's name on it (you left out "Sunset Boulevard"!!)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.eskimo.com/~noir/ftitles/sunset/sunset02.jpg

― GILLY'S BAGG'EAR VANCE OF COUPARI (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:21 (nineteen years ago)

OH YEAH

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:21 (nineteen years ago)

He's all kinds o' terrific.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.villagevoice.com/issues/0602/hoberman.jpg

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

Just had a chance to see Sunset Boulevard on the big screen a couple of weeks ago -- fantastic. (The Music Box is doing Wilder matinees every Saturday and Sunday all summer long.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

I even like The Major and the Minor.

― GILLY'S BAGG'EAR VANCE OF COUPARI (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:27 (nineteen years ago)

Midnight gets better and better, or maybe I'm giving Mitchell Leisen more credit for this and Easy Living.

"Vulgar" isn't an insult; but I do have a problem with Wilder rarely having the courage to turn his cynicism into something more than an excuse to stick rancid jokes in actors' mouths.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

Cynicism IS curdled romanticism.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

It isn't, and I am living proof!!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

It isn't, and I am living proof!!

Oh, Morb, keep quiet – you're Shirley MacLaine in The Apartment

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:33 (nineteen years ago)

Going up?

I find the vulgarity of Kiss Me, Stupid rather delightful (and more adult in its view of marriage than many subsequent Hollywood comedies I can think of).

The one I haven't seen I'm curious about is the truncated Sherlock Holmes film.

I used to have Curdled Romantic on my card. Got me so much dick...

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

Watched Irma La Douce the other day and it's wonderful.

― Affectian (Affectian), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

I'm curious about Avanti!, The Front Page and those other '70s comedies no one saw. Reviews anyone?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

The Front Page is kind of a disaster, stick with the '31 version or His Girl Friday.

I think Sunset Blvd is a tad overworshipped by homosexualists, but it's a fun monster movie. Fedora is an interesting, less goth variation.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:44 (nineteen years ago)

The Apartment (and Annie Hall) is a tad overworshipped by hets.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

Best film as yet unmentioned: Ace in the Hole

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

worst: love in the afternoon

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

i like many billy wilder movies, love some of them, but i can't work up that much passion about him

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

Morbius OTM re: Ace in the Hole, which goes beyond cynicism into almost Sam Fuller-level OUTRAGE.

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 20:10 (nineteen years ago)

Answer with some bad noir prose

― A Study In Redd Scharlach (Ken L), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JNG5.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
AUGUST 22

― a.b. (alanbanana), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 22:15 (nineteen years ago)

Ace in the Hole is indeed fantastic. (In fact, I bought the name.)

It is heartbreaking that he never got to cast Cary Grant in "Love in the Afternoon".

I'll admit I'm partial to Bogie in Sabrina (in the scenes with William Holden, at least). And I caught "Five Graves to Cairo" a few months back, which is pretty wonderful.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 22:23 (nineteen years ago)

My favorite Wilder: Double Indemnity (still his best, even though as usual the supporting cast is disgracefully ignored), A Foreign Affair, Sunset Boulevard, Some Like it Hot, The Apartment.

Worth a second look: Ace in the Hole, Sabrina, Stalag 17 (if I'm feeling generous).

Turds: The Major & the Minor, The Seven-Year Itch, The Spirit of St. Louis, Witness for the Prosecution, Love in the Afternoon, One, Two, Three, Irma la Douce, The Fortune Cookie

Haven't Seen in Years: The Lost Weekend

I haven't seen most of the '70s films.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 22:54 (nineteen years ago)

one two three is most decidenly NOT a turd

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 22:56 (nineteen years ago)

One, Two, Three is awesome!

― A Study In Redd Scharlach (Ken L), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:13 (nineteen years ago)

James Cagney was probably the only actor who could deliver that dialogue.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

i guess this is a good time to ask (for the third or fourth time) if there is any way to actually SEE ace in the hole? it's never been released on vhs or dvd and i've yet to see it on TCM even, do you all have access to some secret wilder vault or something?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

The last time this came up.
(xpost)

― A Study In Redd Scharlach (Ken L), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:19 (nineteen years ago)

Ace in the Hole is the bleakest movie I've ever seen. Not a single likeable character. Even the trapped miner was a spineless buffoon.

Loved it.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:23 (nineteen years ago)

I love how the trapped guy has a song written about him, although in my mind I mash it up with some of the songs from Zelig- was his name Leonard?

― A Study In Redd Scharlach (Ken L), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

Have any of you ever remarked on the fact that Jack Lemmon plays kind of a wormy character in The Apartment and that in Kiss Me, Stupid the wormy character is played by Ray Walston but his wife is played by Felicia Farr, Lemmon's wife?

― A Study In Redd Scharlach (Ken L), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:35 (nineteen years ago)

I got Ace in the Hole from karagarga before it went down. haven't watched it yet!

― a.b. (alanbanana), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 23:55 (nineteen years ago)

You can get piratey versions on Ebay.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 00:10 (nineteen years ago)

just re-watched sunset blvd. on tmc the other week -- always a pleasure. ace in the hole, double indemnity, some like it hot, the apartment, stalag... i even like love in the afternoon, despite gary cooper.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

also i could've sworn i rented ace in the hole on vhs about 10-12 years ago. unless i just got lucky and saw it on tv.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 01:05 (nineteen years ago)

I saw it on a crappy VHS about 10 years ago too.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 01:07 (nineteen years ago)

I got Ace in the Hole from karagarga before it went down. haven't watched it yet!

-- a.b. (aaaaaathatsfivea...), Today 8:55 PM. (alanbanana) (later)

oohhhhhh damn.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 01:43 (nineteen years ago)

I saw it at the Wilder retro at the Museum of the Moving Image and it's playing again at the Film Forum retro this summer. Outside of NY, though, I'm not sure. If Alfred is right about that VHS it might be under the title The Big Carnival.

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 03:02 (nineteen years ago)

I saw ACe in the Hole at the Film Forum, I think.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 03:16 (nineteen years ago)

yeah ONE TWO THREE is amazing.

― pisces (piscesx), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

...and is immeasurably enhanced by one's knowledge of '61 topical humor and Cagney's filmography. "How would you like half a grapefruit?"

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

I even like The Major and the Minor

it's fantastic!

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

Was it at that awesome Festival of the American Comedy a few years back, Dan? I lived at the Film Forum for those three months.

Here's a game we can play: match the Billy Wilder female lead to the method of attempted suicide!

1. Slit Wrists
2. Sleeping pills
3. Carbon monoxide asphixiation

a) Fran Kubelik
b) Norma Desmond
c) Sabrina Fairchild

(are there any others?)

― antexit (antexit), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

1. Sabrina
2. Fran
3. Norma

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

I think Wilder wanted to use all 3 methods after seeing the Lloyd Webber musical of Sunset Blvd.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry, Alfred, that's incorrect! But we have this lovely parting gift for you:

http://www.livefastdieyoungbook.com/index_files/sunset_boulevard_monkey_funeral.jpg

One monkey, slightly used.

― antexit (antexit), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

"I'm still big, only the threads got smaller!"

Was it Wilder who said something after Peter Bogdanovich had a big flop that made his career go bellyup like "You could hear the sound of corks popping all over town?"

― A Study In Redd Scharlach (Ken L), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

(xpost)

Yeah, it was Norma who slit her wrists and Fran who OD'd on pills. I think I read them in the wrong order (and me who just saw SB again last month).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 16:02 (nineteen years ago)

Google seems to indicate that the following is the correct wording of BW's bon mot:

"It isn't true that Hollywood is a bitter place divided by hatred, greed and jealousy. All it takes to bring everyone together is another flop by Peter Bogdanovich. Champagne corks are popping, flags are waving. The guru has laid another egg..."

― A Study In Redd Scharlach (Ken L), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

"Watched Irma La Douce the other day and it's wonderful."

IMO it's too long and too slow, but boy is it terrific eye candy!

― Chairman Doinel (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 21 June 2006 20:43 (nineteen years ago)

arlene francis as the smart-alec wife in one, two, three - SUPER-CLASSIC

― joseph (joseph), Thursday, 22 June 2006 05:13 (nineteen years ago)

awfully awfully fond of the private life of sherlock holmes, i think the best of the 70s movie, and almost in good in places as sunset, and 10x as weird...overlooked clasic

― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 22 June 2006 07:26 (nineteen years ago)

If all BW's movies had been as overblown as Irma La Douce, he'd have been Blake Edwards.

Original TCM doc tonight, and I'd recommend taping A Foreign Affair in the wee hours.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 June 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

A Foreign Affair ain't out on DVD, is it?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 22 June 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

just out of print VHS, apparently.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 June 2006 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

Nice '75 interview with BW on his 3 most noirish films...

A producer, [Joe Sistrom], came to me and said, "Look, do you know James M. Cain?" I answered, "Certainly. He wrote Postman Always Rings Twice." He said, "Well, we don't have that, Metro has that, but as an afterthought, and to cash in, he wrote a serial in the old Liberty Magazine called Double Indemnity. Read it." So I read it, and I said, "Terrific. It's not as good as Postman, but let's do it." So we bought it. Then we said, "Mr. Cain, how would you like to work with Mr. Wilder on a screenplay?" He said, "I would love to, but I can't because I'm doing Western Union for Fritz Lang at Twentieth Century-Fox." So, the producer said, "There is a Black Mask mystery writer around Hollywood called Raymond Chandler." Nobody knew much about him, seriously, as a person. So we agreed, "Let's bring him in." He'd never been inside a studio. Then he started working. So you see, it is not that I am tossing up and down in my bed like Goethe conceiving art, and wind is playing in my hair, and I plan it all out to the last detail. No. It's happenstance that we found Chandler.

http://www.imagesjournal.com/issue10/features/wilder/

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 June 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

three weeks pass...

new print of Ace in the Hole at NYC Film Forum today/tomw!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 July 2006 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

oh you lucky bums

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 14 July 2006 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

Hey, it's now fashionable to dump on Double Indemnity:

http://www.slantmagazine.com/dvd/dvd_review.asp?ID=1001

Young-turk revisionists have too much time on their hands (at least we can blame P. Kael for starting them on the "De Palma is one of the all-time greats" road)... tho Dave Kehr, no youth, engaged in this recently too in his review of the disc:

"Wilder, who had as little interest in visual expressiveness as Jackson Pollock had in figure painting, remained a literary filmmaker to the end of his career, relying on such stock techniques here as endlessly repeated lines and situations ...and a condescending approach to his audience that led him to spell out everything in large capital letters..."

Yeah, other noirs look better (or grimier) but jeez, Wilder's strengths were obv dialogue and narrative rhythm (which deserted him around the time of Irma la Douce), and some of those John Alton-lit B pics don't do much for the ear.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

yeesh.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

Get with the times, Slocki, it's a new century and we must obey the hour. *kills self*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

Kehr wasn't too keen on the casting of MacMurry either, which is absurd. With the exception of the three leads though, the rest of the cast is dull or worse (the head of the insurance company for instance).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

edward g. robinson?!?! are you fucking insane man?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

Reread my post, s1ocki.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:42 (nineteen years ago)

How can something be "flabby around the edges" when "what you see is what you get"?

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

you see flab.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

didn't EGR play the head of the insurance company?

i may have jumped the gun a little.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

"Get outta here before I throw my desk at you."

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 28 August 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

I'dmuch rather take Sunset Blvd. down a peg than DI. I don't think the bit players bothered me since I don't remember any of them, not even Phyllis' husband.

(EGR is just a midlevel guy -- an adjuster? -- I think.)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 28 August 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

EGR was a Statistics man.

― Picnics and Pixie Stix (Charles McCain), Monday, 28 August 2006 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

Classic:

Barton Keyes: You know, you, uh, oughta take a look at the statistics on suicide some time. You might learn a little something about the insurance business.

Edward S. Norton: Mister Keyes, I was RAISED in the insurance business.

Barton Keyes: Yeah, in the front office. Come now, you've never read an actuarial table in your life, have you? Why they've got ten volumes on suicide alone. Suicide by race, by color, by occupation, by sex, by seasons of the year, by time of day. Suicide, how committed: by poison, by firearms, by drowning, by leaps. Suicide by poison, subdivided by TYPES of poison, such as corrosive, irritant, systemic, gaseous, narcotic, alkaloid, protein, and so forth. Suicide by leaps, subdivided by leaps from high places, under the wheels of trains, under the wheels of trucks, under the feet of horses, from STEAMBOATS. But, Mr. Norton: Of all the cases on record, there's not one single case of suicide by leap from the rear end of a moving train. And you know how fast that train was going at the point where the body was found? Fifteen miles an hour. Now how can anybody jump off a slow-moving train like that with any kind of expectation that he would kill himself? No, no soap, Mr. Norton. We're sunk, and we'll have to pay through the nose, and you know it.

― Picnics and Pixie Stix (Charles McCain), Monday, 28 August 2006 17:06 (nineteen years ago)

dave kehr is one of those nutty old-school auteurists who use some kind of secret formula to determine which old hollywood directors are geniuses and which ones are hacks. i doubt he has much of a reason for revering howard hawks and dismissing billy wilder besides "andrew sarris stuck one in the 'genius' section and the other one in the 'overrated' section."

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 28 August 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

slant, as usual, publishing dim-witted hack job in lieu of insight. OMG, A NOIR IS MISOGYNIST!!

― timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 04:47 (nineteen years ago)

slant is like a parody of slate right?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 11:57 (nineteen years ago)

I generally like Slant (esp Ed G and Eric H). And reviews like this are useful in re-examining the canon, etc. But this passage

As these two monsters thrust and parry contemptuous dialogue at each other ...it's hard not to feel that the prospect of sex between two people has seldom looked so joyless.

makes me doubt that Dan Callahan has ever had a good hatefuck.

btw, re Wilder, Sarris eventually recanted many of his complaints.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

seven months pass...

ok posted to ilf but i didnt realize it at the time & i know no one reads there so:

why is this guy so underrated?

--i doubt he has much of a reason for revering howard hawks and dismissing billy wilder besides "andrew sarris stuck one in the 'genius' section and the other one in the 'overrated' section."--

otm

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

two months pass...

Hooray! Finally.

http://www.criterion.com/asp/release.asp?id=396

― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

― ghost rider, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 14:14 (eighteen years ago)

two months pass...

Posted this on ILF:

Boy, Ace in the Hole's unavailability has inflated its reputation. Really stupid in a rancid way, as if he wanted the audience to applaud his "nasty" premise and rub its nose in it too. Kirk Douglas' loud, unmodulated performance doesn't help.

And, as usual, he doesn't have the courage to accept the consequences of his rancidness -- the last 30 minutes are just awful.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 9 September 2007 01:08 (eighteen years ago)

I guess it's something that Richard Gaines as a Gotham editor is as terrible as he was as the boss in Double Indemnity.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 9 September 2007 01:16 (eighteen years ago)

I think ~~Sunset Blvd~~ the cinema is a tad overworshipped by homosexualists

― Eric H., Sunday, 9 September 2007 01:59 (eighteen years ago)

Hut-Sut Rawlson on the rillerah and a brawla, brawla sooit, Hut-Sut Rawlson on the rillerah and a brawla sooit!

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:37 (eighteen years ago)

BOO!

― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

So to speak.

― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

Er -- I mean, I like it a lot. (Hence name.) The excessive rancid darkness -- that's the good stuff.

― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:48 (eighteen years ago)

heh

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:51 (eighteen years ago)

Morbs makes me sound like Lady Bracknell.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:53 (eighteen years ago)

Douglas' style is nearly perfect for the material here til he has to feel guilty.

I do a mean "No Lindy's! No Yogi Berra" impression.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

til he has to feel guilty.

Isn't that the typical Douglas role?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 14 September 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

six months pass...

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v22/n05/wood01_.html

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 09:27 (seventeen years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.hulu.com/some-like-it-hot

― and what, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:43 (seventeen years ago)

thirteen years pass...

Double Indemnity getting a Criterion release

https://www.criterion.com/films/30460-double-indemnity

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 17:01 (three years ago)

Ugh, a Richard Schikel commentary track.

The Eureka/Masters of Cinema disc has a really good CT, and lots of good extras:

https://eurekavideo.co.uk/movie/double-indemnity/

― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 17 February 2022 15:28 (three years ago)

That Dobbs/Redman CT was--like the Schickel one--a port from old Universal DVD/BLU.

― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 17 February 2022 15:43 (three years ago)

Hey, maybe you want to ~~buy some black market good~~ take this quiz

― Solaris Ocean Blue (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 17 February 2022 16:02 (three years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.