No liquids on airplanes (NON POLICITAL THREAD)

My sister travels a lot on business with vials and needles because she gives herself a daily shot of some drug or other that helps keep her MS in check. This is definitely going to be hard for her.

Is this a permanent thing, btw? It's so terribly inconvenient (and without much of a benefit IMO)--I prefer to pack things like shampoo, lotion, etc. in my carry-on so it won't bust open in my checked bag. The shoe thing is "optional" at most/all airports now, right?

Maria has a really good point--if they wanted to, couldn't people claim whatever harmful liquid was just medicine, or are we going to put everybody with a baby/liquid meds through the Nth degree? This is absurd.

(so, er, yeah, what Maria said)

i've heard nothing about a ban on liquids/"gels" before the gate, and can't imagine anyone suggesting same, as they can't be used there for their intended purpose - blowing up an airplane (preferably in the middle of an ocean).

and the whole point of the liquid/"gel" ban is to prevent someone from using them to put together an explosive device onboard a plane. if you were going to do something before the gate, you would just use, you know, a bomb.

Donut, you bring up the subject of bathrooms - does the TSA secure cleaning supplies? Because mixing a bit of bleach with a bit of ammonia (just a little Comet and Windex) releases an unhealthy amount of chloramine gas. Or a little bleach with a dab of phosphate based cleaner for chlorine gas.

You don't have to blow up a plane to kill everyone on it.

This is my favorite paragraph of all time right at this moment.

Snakes, people!

I thought it was not just about killing people on the plane, but blowing it up spectacularly, preferably over a major urban area, for maximum TV newsworthiness.

In that case it's REALLY odd they targeted trans-atlantic flights...I wonder what the goal was.

xpost

I'm glad my boredom + my lack of sleep made someone amused.

Maybe they'll be scrutinizing anything in a vitamin-ey/medicinal looking jar now, but one could easily carry powdered bleach or ammonia or other hazardous stuff into plastic jars through TSA. All you need is water from the airplane bathroom, and...

How awesome would it be if the FAA and Dept of Homeland Security held a press conference to clarify their position on fudge and cotton candy?

don't forget cheez whiz

I can't find something saying so clearly at the moment, but my assumption (and I believe I've heard) is that the intent was to blow planes up over the ocean consistent with the 1996 'Bojinka' plot.

or maybe milk, milk, lemonade

Erm, the Pan-Am bombing over Lockerbie on was a transatlantic flight. OK, Lockerbie ain't a major conurbation, but ten or so minutes later and that wreckage would have been all over Glasgow. Transatlantic flights = greater chance that the victim would be British or American, as mentioned already.

(xxpost, oh, I would've thought blowing planes up where people could see - and record - the event and aftermath would be more effective in terms of coverage and immediate infiltration to international psyches. The images of the World Trade Centre are far more instantly accessible to the world than the Pentagon or the Pittsburgh planes, not to mention Madrid, London, Bali etc, because we were watching when it happened and have seen it so many times since.)

Marlon Brando, right? Sucked.

Also, one of the byproducts of bleach/ammonia is hydrazine, which burns on contact with air and explodes on contact with rust. The lower explosive limit is 2900 ppm, so you'd have to mix a couple liters up to generate enough.

OMG THEY HAD A PLOT NAMED "BOJINKA"?!?!?

My friend just called from Newark Airport where chaos reigns. People are panicking about having to trash their expensive cosmetics. Everybody was told to throw out lipsticks and lip balms and then ten minutes later the same security guy came back around and said no, it's okay, lipstick is off the list, you can go fish them back out of the trash.

BUT WHAT ABOUT LIPGLOSS?!?!

Man, the TSA guys are going to have the biggest headaches for the next couple of days. "Is liquid foundation okay?" "No." How about powder?" "...Yes." "How about liquid-to-powder?" *head explodes*

exploit -> patch -> exploit -> patch -> exploit -> patch -> ...

Nobody can think of everything (to be 100% safe, you would have to stop starting up your computer/stop using planes), the thing is to patch/fix/avoid/forbid what they think of, preferably before someone uses it in the wild/on a plane/in a train/whatever.

http://guardians.net/hawass/valley_of_the_mummies/pic26.jpg

9/11-level death toll and the idea of being helplessly stranded over the atlantic isn't enough? I'd imagine it's also much easier to pull off the plot mid-flight when you're further from air traffic control, the seat-belt sign is off, people are busy serving food/sleeping/movie-watching/etc., and it seems far more normal to futz with carry-ons, go to the bathroom, etc.

You're never really far from air traffic control, btw.

Oh, pardon me. I do apologise for derailing a thread about airline security by talking about airline security. Your point is pretty much my point. If you want to cause an air-crash, you can probab;y do so one way or another, and knee-jerk reactions to a recent whisper about how someone may be planning to do it, doesn't eradicate the whole threat, it just makes people like feel something is being done. It doesn't make *me* feel any safer. I thought I was making a valid contribution to the thread, and the only reason I laboured the point for so long was because people were being all nit-picky and contrary about it.

Legal execution is 1 in 62,468

You're more likely to die from flying than:
accidental electrocution, alcohol poisoning, hot weather, hornet/wasp/bee sting, lightning, earhquake, flood, fireworks discharge

that's from the National Saftey Council in the august National Geographic

Strictly speaking, the idea of making white women throw away their water bottles, medicines, perfumes and such is nonsensical. From a security standpoint it achieves nothing other than aggravation.

and/or fear, minor poll bump, yeah.

You could tell people were panicking as they were ripping out Sudoku pages of papers and putting them in their pocket-sized wallets.

that's from the National Saftey Council in the august National Geographic

Yeah, but do flying deaths in those statistics include general aviation (small plane) accidents. Because the majority of flying deaths are from crashes involving little single-engine planes and not from larger passenger planes used by commercial airlines.

You mean like crashing a Piper Super Cub, Super Cub? I imagine it does include light aircraft, and probably ballooning, gliders, helicopters and space shuttles too! I wonder if there are statistics for commercial aviation incidents chance of death? I'm sure they're somewhere.
Of course statistic like those paint a very blank picture. The average US Citizen doesn't rrrealllyy have a 1 in 62,468 chance of being legally executed either.

HOLY SHIT. IM NEVER GETTING ON AN INTERSTATE AGAIN.

i was stopped at LAX in 1997 and told to drink from the coke i was holding. i couldn't comprehend it at the time and hestitated, then they yelled at me 'MA'AM PLEASE SIP AND SWALLOW YOUR BEVERAGE'.

i only found out yesterday there had been a terrorist plot to blow up a flight between LA and sydney with liquid explosive in 1995. considering thats the kind of flight i was getting on, it finally made sense.

it drives me crazy when people wait to ask if they need to take their shoes off. hey, guess what. people in this endless line have planes to catch. JUST TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF.

HOLY SHIT. IM NEVER GETTING ON AN INTERSTATE AGAIN.

Who said that statistic was exclusive to interstates?

http://cache.defamer.com/assets/resources/2006/08/liquids-on-a-plane.jpg

-- Rotgutt (Rotgut...) (webmail), Today 4:15 PM. (Rotgutt) (later)

bullshit

Useless to argue with the reasoning of airport security/screeners, people required to have so little qualification or ability, it's not even clear they have all graduated from high school.

It's like saying "Tip for al qaeda: en list mentalist white old man dressing up as a vicar to do your dirty deeds and they'll never be searched."

whatevs, britain

thats only because you go faster on interstates

But still no news of concrete evidence of what materials and methods the alleged terrorists in custody had. Where are the liquid bomb parts?

i have had my hair explored.

also they have new x-ray things they're testing out, 14hrs before all this shit kicked off i was flying out of heathrow and got "randomly selected" (uhh... ok...) to have it tried out on me. you go between two screens and put your heels/toes on markers on the floor and hold your arms up with elbows bent, then turn around and do it facing the other way. they said something about it not penetrating skin so i guess it can find stuff hidden in hair/down t-shirts/etc.