Is Brirain a worse place to live than it was in 1986?

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― Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:32 (eighteen years ago)

Britain, bah.

Interesting differences in priorities. When people think things are generally OK then terrorism floats to the top of their worry list. Things are worsers do the "lack of respect" thing much more.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:37 (eighteen years ago)

terrorism IS a crime!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:38 (eighteen years ago)

this all seems relatively sensible tho. telling however, how far down environmental concerns are for people.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:39 (eighteen years ago)

I generally agree with the things are worsers' set of priorities more, except for when it comes to the environment. I keep thinking it looks like the list of lower-income respondents, but maybe I'm wrong.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:41 (eighteen years ago)

Some things are better and some worse. I hate these kind of surveys.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:39 (eighteen years ago)

terrorism IS a crime!

Indeed. Nelson Mandela got sent down for 27 years for it.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:40 (eighteen years ago)

Crime is probably lower than it was in 1986

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:42 (eighteen years ago)

crime is lower, violent crime is much higher.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:43 (eighteen years ago)

i.e. everyone who does it is on drugs.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:45 (eighteen years ago)

And indeed it is

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page54.asp

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:45 (eighteen years ago)

not by much

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page63.asp

Clearly there was a spike in Junglist violence that was eased by the emergence of Jazz-step drum and base

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:47 (eighteen years ago)

interesting it peaked during the last economic boom.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:48 (eighteen years ago)

Violent crime had been reclassified so many times since 1986 it's difficult to compare. It's even difficult to compare between constabularies now as they classify things differently. My memory of city centres in 1986 is of pretty grim places with a lot of unrecorded violence/drunkeness. I know that city centres at night are still fairly intimidating places where a lot of crime happens but I'm not convinceed they are worse than in 1986.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:50 (eighteen years ago)

i think britain would be a much better place if we are lacking Respect.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:51 (eighteen years ago)

This would be equally true if you did the survey in 1950 or 1830. Britain's always been going to the dogs.

― stet (stet), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:54 (eighteen years ago)

Especially in Walthamstow boom boom.

Hang on a minute, the title of this thread refers to somewhere called "Brirain." Middle East somewhere, right?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:55 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

Also a lot of those violent crimes are people nicking your mobile phone which obviously didn't happen so much in 1986. Although it would have been funnier to see someone hareing away with one of those huge brick type things and then having to come back for the over the shoulder battery pack.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:58 (eighteen years ago)

How do people measure 'lack of respect'?

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

with a lackofrespectometer, obv...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:18 (eighteen years ago)

you have to consider british politics to be in a worse state today than 20 years ago. there's no opposition now.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:20 (eighteen years ago)

if you say there's no effective opposition now, well, there was hardly an effective opposition 20 years ago either.

― stet (stet), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:21 (eighteen years ago)

probably not, but there was potential for... something?

iirc labour received more votes in 1983, than in 2005.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:25 (eighteen years ago)

what's the argument against mandatory voting?

― stet (stet), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

Nobody worth voting for?

Opposition 20 years ago - that'll have been Kinnock, who in the words of Alan Clark, had Thatcher cornered over the Westland affair but then had an attack of the wind and she got away scot free, while he continued burping on about "this BANK-RIPT GIVVERMINT" as opposed to the "LIBBA PIDDY" he was leading at the time.

And Red Wedge, of course.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:29 (eighteen years ago)

iirc labour received more votes in 1983, than in 2005.

No, it was in 1987 than Labour (in defeat) polled more votes than in 2005 (10.03m to 9.56m; in '83 they polled 8.46m). However, 5.4m more people voted in 1987 than in the last Gen Elec.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:33 (eighteen years ago)

I can remember listening to the Westlands debate on the radio - all of us, as a family, like in the war! It was like listening to Lancashire fail to bowl out Yorkshire despite having all day to do so.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:39 (eighteen years ago)

Britain is clearly a worse place because the kids today would not be able to understand the above sentence.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:41 (eighteen years ago)

No, it was in 1987 that Labour (in defeat) polled more votes than in 2005 (10.03m to 9.56m; in '83 they polled 8.46m). However, 5.4m more people voted in 1987 than in the last Gen Elec.

I say, Michael, steady on, old chap! Is that from your BRANE?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

Why is terrorism touted as if it's never happened in Britain before? Surely there was as tangible risk of terrorism from the late 60s through to the late 90s from the IRA/UVF etc as there is now.

― T B (T B), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

this is Big Terrorism.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:44 (eighteen years ago)

I recall Michael Foot putting in a good showing in the Westlands debate (at least he got the ball to swing). I should check it out in ~~Wisden~~ Hansard.

I say, Michael, steady on, old chap! Is that from your BRANE?

Yes. (Meaning "no".)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:45 (eighteen years ago)

I was in my early 20s in 1986 and I can safely say that England was a much worse place to live then. Politically, Thatcher was in power, and Labour under Kinnock were a pathetic opposition. In 1986, unemployment was about at its peak. The music scene was probably worse in 1985, but still 1986 was fairly dire in that respect. Pubs still closed in the afternoons, espresso coffee was still hard to come by in London. The public infrastructure was in a far worse state than it is now. Parks, phone boxes, tube entrances, etc in a state of permenent vandalisation. As for terrorism, the IRA was still active, swathes of London would be regularly closed off by the police. 1986 was crap.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:46 (eighteen years ago)

espresso coffee was still hard to come by in London

My God, how did we live?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:48 (eighteen years ago)

We went to Bar Italia, that's how we lived.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:50 (eighteen years ago)

An argument against mandatory voting is that it would become spintacular - the 30% or so of people who didn't care would be hugely vulnerable to PR nastiness which (and this is a negatvie from my perspective, if not everyone's) the right wing can do rather more effectively than the left.

― === temporary username === (Mark C), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:51 (eighteen years ago)

oh noes, pubs closed... while i would have been at work.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:53 (eighteen years ago)

espresso coffee was still hard to come by

Sometimes I like to play the game of trying to remember what shops existed in the places now taken over by Starbucks.

― C J (C J), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:53 (eighteen years ago)

bring back the three day week i reckon. my weekends never feel long enough.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:57 (eighteen years ago)

Sometimes I like to play the game of trying to remember what shops existed in the places now taken over by Starbucks

Cleese's Bread and Dripping shops, mostly. Staffed by adorable little cockernee urchins wearing bowler hats. Lumme, mister.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:00 (eighteen years ago)

I was there in the London of 1986. Revivalist knows that of which s/he speaks.

Provided you averted your eyes from the charts, it wasn't a bad year for music, though...hang about, I feel a thread idea coming on...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:01 (eighteen years ago)

no internets, grime, or post-chris morris-television-that-"isn't 'the day today', but hey, what is?" in 1986.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:01 (eighteen years ago)

I do miss Groove Records in Berwick Street, though.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:02 (eighteen years ago)

correction: Greek Street, no wonder I missed it...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:02 (eighteen years ago)

Mullets.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:03 (eighteen years ago)

There are a couple of 1986 threads on ILM, but I can't be arsed to revive either of them.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:03 (eighteen years ago)

And I forgot to mention: food was crap in 1986 too. Microwaved spag bol and chips, and the like.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:06 (eighteen years ago)

that can't be true of everyone, surely?

but yeah i would guess more is available now, and beer is canned better.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:08 (eighteen years ago)

I think the cheese fondue party was all the rage still in 1986.

― C J (C J), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

I was in my early 20s in 2006 and I can safely say that England was a shitty place to live then. Politically, Blair was in power, and the Tories under Cameron were a pathetic opposition. The music scene was probably worse in 2005, but still 2006 was fairly dire in that respect. The public infrastructure was in a terrible state. Parks, phone boxes, tube entrances, etc in a state of permenent vandalisation. As for terrorism, al Qaeda was still active, swathes of London would be regularly closed off by the police. 2006 was crap.

But unemployment was lower than in 1986 and you could get drunk at 5pm on Sunday, so yay!

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 93 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Record Mirror, Smash Hits

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:33 (eighteen years ago)

i only read the transformers comic back in '86, wot is this 'NME'?

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:34 (eighteen years ago)

Tsk, kids.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:35 (eighteen years ago)

mark s vs megatron

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:38 (eighteen years ago)

megatron

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:38 (eighteen years ago)

I thought NME was pretty toss back in the late '80's actually. I don't know if 06 is better than 86 or vice versa, or if one is even better than the other at all.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:39 (eighteen years ago)

Still had Quantick and Swells and our very own Mr Sinkuh in 86 tho.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:46 (eighteen years ago)

1986 TV: Zammo on smack on Grange Hill and the godawful 'just say no' campaign; Lofty getting jilted at the alter by Michelle to the sound of Nick 'Wicksy' Berry's godawful 'every loser wins', "hello, shadwell here" on naked video, one live televised game of football every fortnight if you were lucky, Noel Edmunds' Telly Addicts...

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:49 (eighteen years ago)

one live televised game of football every fortnight if you were lucky

is it?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:50 (eighteen years ago)

NME C86

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:52 (eighteen years ago)

Halley's Comet!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:55 (eighteen years ago)

That was a dud wasn't it?

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:57 (eighteen years ago)

CHERNOBYL PH3AR > TERRORISM PH3AR

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:59 (eighteen years ago)

Hold a chicken in the air, stick a deckchair up your nose...

If someone offered me a time machine and said I could relive any year of my life 1986 would be waaaaaaaaaay down the list.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:01 (eighteen years ago)

a lot of good spectrum games came out that in 1986, as i discovered 3 years later

i have no interest in teh xbox360

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:02 (eighteen years ago)

There were some great Speccy games, sure, but a huge amount of near unplayable toss too. I don't want a xbox360 but the games sure look purdy when I see them being played in the shops.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:04 (eighteen years ago)

Football is an interesting one. It was in a pretty sorry state twenty years ago and many would contend that things have not improved (tho the problems themselves have changed) bar safety.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

In 1986, you could go and see THE SHOP ASSISTANTS live.

Maybe even TED CHIPPINGTON.

I suppose a good thing about those wood chips is that you still get "scrapey" bits under the swings. The rubber is better for dads to sit on.

Miltonpinski, there were plenty of good films too.

I will try and think of one, other than WISH YOU WERE HERE and DO THE RIGHT THING.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:35 (eighteen years ago)

Do The Right Thing? Do you mean She's Gotta Have It, sir?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:40 (eighteen years ago)

Food's better now that it was in 1986? Is that the best we can come up with?

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:43 (eighteen years ago)

Is 'lack of respect' a euphemism for something?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:48 (eighteen years ago)

People smoke less / smoking is on the wane (but cocaine and alcohol abuse inc. drink-driving probably more common now)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:50 (eighteen years ago)

Aliens! Ferris Bueller's Day Off! Um... Rocky 4!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:50 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not sure about the drink-driving. I have absolutely no facts to back that up, but I'm sticking to it :)

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:52 (eighteen years ago)

People smoke less / smoking is on the wane

Unless you're a woman, in which case you smoke more, yes?

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

>> In 1986, you could go and see THE SHOP ASSISTANTS live.

I love the Shop Assistants, but I thought they had a reputation for being really shit live? Or was that your point?

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:54 (eighteen years ago)

(xpost) No!

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/866.gif

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

re. good films.

i was going to say 'betty blue' (1986). but it probably didn't get here til '87.

i saw 'aliens' in rep, a few years ago -- it had an original trailer reel! cronenberg's 'the fly' is the one i remember.

ooh 'manhunter' also.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

The Shop Assistants were an underrated group; I knew Alex Taylor very, very slightly at the time (friend of a friend) but post-Motorcycle Boy I have absolutely no idea what became of her. "Somewhere In China" is one of the great singles of the '80s. Shame about the album, though.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago)

BETTY BLUE! I can tell yr still a student!

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:39 (eighteen years ago)

what year was The Big Blue?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:42 (eighteen years ago)

Less chance of random nutjobs beating me to death for the colour of my skin in 2006...Which is a plus....For me at least.

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:52 (eighteen years ago)

ver big blue was '88 i think.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

blue velvet '86

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

blues brothers '84?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:55 (eighteen years ago)

I enjoyed very much a Shop Assistants concert in 1986, that's why I thought of them. DTRT was later, but I enjoyed that very much too, which is why I thought of it, rather than any durable qualities it may have (which I beleive it does have BTW).

I started university in 1986 you see.

I saw Alex Doodah with Meat Whiplash. I think that was post- Motorcycle Boy. I also saw Motorcycle Boy, supporting... The Jesus and Mary Chain?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

I think I read somehwere (perhaps even here) that the original [Wicker Man] was the lower part of a bill shared with Don't Look Now. I have never seen Don't Look Now, but what a double whammy, eh? And now they are both newspaper freebies.
Perhaps this should be on the 1986 thread.

-- PJ Miller (pjmiller6...) (webmail), Today 5:30 PM. (PJ Miller 68) (later)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:31 (eighteen years ago)

Meat Whiplash were still around post-Motorcycle Boy? Did they ever release anything apart from the Creation single which came out in 1985 or so?

I have that Motorcycle Ride 7" with Alex fronting Ride doing Blondie covers!

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:33 (eighteen years ago)

cocaine and alcohol abuse inc. drink-driving probably more common now

I'm sure cocaine use is far higher now than it was 20 years ago. I expect alcohol consumption is higher, but I'm not sure how much of this is just media hysteria - lots of people have been binge/heavy drinkers in this country for decades, if not centuries. I'm pretty sure drink driving is far less common now than it was in the late 60s / early 70s, but like Colonel Poo I'm not going to offer any evidence to back this up.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

I'd expect alcohol consumption to be about the same or lower (what with the health kick over the past 20 years)

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:49 (eighteen years ago)

no alcopops in '86

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

i mean what DID 15 year olds drink twenty years ago? awful cider i suppose - that was my entry into boozing too.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

I was 15 twenty years ago. I drank beer, Merrydown dry cider and occasionally cheap wine and very occasionally vodka.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

Snakebite, in me and my peers cases. Teenagers' drinking habits = rank stupidity, then and now.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:04 (eighteen years ago)

Merrydown is the devil's drink.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

Weren't English teams banned from playing in Europe in 1986 after Heysel? Bad years for football those.

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

Dunno about 20 years ago but 15 years ago this 15 year old drank cheap cider (Scrumpy Jack, Merrydown, Diamond White, K etc) or cheap lager (Lynx, that Tesco's one, Norseman I think) or supermarket brand vodka + coke or orange juice.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

History was written by the swingers. Today—by the whingers?
-- Euai Kapaui (tracerhan...), September 4th, 2006.

Marvellous!

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

I like PJM's mails. I like the thread. The thing is - these are all interesting details. But ... what is the big process, the big change, that drives or explains it? Or do you not think that exists?

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

Snakebite's back in, Pashmina. I was treated to it on several occasions last year, before my tastes wandered to the equally-lethal but even-nicer Cheeky Vimto, a combination of about 6 measures of port and a blue WKD. :-D

Ale is the way to go, though.

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

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