Dutch pronunciation / spelling

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Does anyone know how to pronounce the name of the Liverpool striker Dirk Kuyt? The media have started pronouncing it Kowt (rhyming with shout), and I suspect they may be right. (although part of me would quite like it to be pronounced 'cute', however plain the bloke is)

Broadening the issue a little, I spent a week in Belgium recently, and I got a nice feeling about this language, at least the Flemish variety. Sounds gentle and pleasant.

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 07:42 (nineteen years ago)

Dutch sounds pleasant!??!?!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 07:50 (nineteen years ago)

D-EEE-RK. Kuyt? Fuck, I don't know, K-uh-T (but without the h but the u should be long) Kowt is wrong and so is, sadly, Cute. :-)

It's kinda funny since kuit (pronounced the same way) is calf (your leg).

Flemish sounds pleasant, I guess, because it has the French influence. I really LOVE the Ghent dialect. Mine sounds rather boorish though. :-(

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:10 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yes, where EXACTLY did you stay? Bruges? Gent? Brussels? Antwerp?

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:11 (nineteen years ago)

Mine sounds rather boorish though

Boerish shurely? (Dutch pronunciation accidental)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:13 (nineteen years ago)

D-EEE-RK. Kuyt? Fuck, I don't know, K-uh-T (but without the h but the u should be long) Kowt is wrong and so is, sadly, Cute

Well, Liverpool were playing in Eindhoven last night and the commentator said he'd been told (by Dutch people I assume) that it's pronounced Kowt, but that doesn't sound right to me either... can we talk about Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink instead?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:16 (nineteen years ago)

Well, he's a Dutch player, so I guess *shrug* you could pronounce it that way. I hate the way the Dutch pronounce Dutch. Sounds kinda weird to say, but it is true! Actually, my colleague is probably think I'm seeing people cause I keep pronouncing it to check if it's right, and yeah it'd be right (if you drop the W). .

Boerish? Heh, I was thinking the same.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:20 (nineteen years ago)

Very good article on Dirk and the football culture of Katwijk, by Simon Kuper, here.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:22 (nineteen years ago)

Dirk: the i = the same i as in the English "miss" (short)

Kuyt: the uy or ui is a non-English diphthong, don't know how to explain except, it's the same as the "oeil" in the French "trompe l'oeil" (which I expect most English speakers know how to pronounce?)
(international phonetic alphabet "œj")

― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:23 (nineteen years ago)

Dirk: the i = the same i as in the English "miss" (short)

Eh? I'd mispronounce it then. :-(

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:45 (nineteen years ago)

which I expect most English speakers know how to pronounce?

You expect wrong!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:47 (nineteen years ago)

I wonder if the /kowt/ pronunciation comes from the (false?) perception that huis is pronounced house. Stan, I somehow can't imagine the likes of Peter Drury tackling this /oej/ phoneme!

Nathalie, I actually spent most of my time in the French-speaking part of Belgium, but I kept meeting Flemish people. My trip was also bookended by a couple of days in Brussels, which - language fetishist that I am - I found quite exciting, what with everything being in two languages.

By the way, this my colleague is probably think I'm seeing people cause I keep pronouncing it to check if it's right is just what I've been doing too!

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

œwkej, sorry, it was only an attempt...

― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:56 (nineteen years ago)

Meanwhile, Dirk himself says he doesn't care how people pronounce his name!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 08:59 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, so it's ok if we all just pronounce it Dutch Twat.

― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:06 (nineteen years ago)

Let's hope for his sake it's not pronounced Fernando Morientes

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:08 (nineteen years ago)

... what, you mean the guy who just scored a hat-trick in the Champions League last night?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

yes, dada. Great player, but didn't he score about half a goal in his whole time at Liverpool?

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:21 (nineteen years ago)

phil thompson on sky sports was sticking with "kite" last night.

also, thank you for asking this q daniel, i had thought about it, but not got round to it :)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:49 (nineteen years ago)

I wonder if Liverpool fans will start singing 'Kuyts' by Simon Dupree and the Big Sound in honour of their new big-lad-up-front.

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:06 (nineteen years ago)

That would be good 'cept that I don't think "Kites" are mentioned in the lyric are they?

― Tad Sneery (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:08 (nineteen years ago)

Hmmm In letters of gold on a snow-white KUYT,...

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:12 (nineteen years ago)

I wouldn't know how to explain the pronounciation exactly but I think Stan did an excellent job in his post.

― willem -- (willem), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:18 (nineteen years ago)

There's this street in Amsterdam called Spui, and the guidebooks I've consulted all insist that it's pronounced SPOW. SPOW!

And Cabbage tells me I've to pronounce Cruyff "Crowf".

So I'm sticking with Kowt.

(Part of the problem with this stuff is the variation in Dutch accents, obv: I remember being outraged when, after years of being trained to pronounce Ajax "I-axe", I saw none other than Ruud Gullit on the telly going on about "A-jacks".) (I know I've gone on about that before on here, sorry for the repetition.)

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:26 (nineteen years ago)

The thing is, do we actually have to pronounce it exactly as the Dutch do? If I go to Holland, I don't expect everyone to pronounce every English word/name exactly right.

― Tad Sneery (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

... but then, the whole point of the thread was about how to pronounce Dirk Kuyt, so I'll get me cuyt...

― Tad Sneery (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

The "uy" sound is similar to the way a Canadian would pronounce "ou" in "house"

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:22 (nineteen years ago)

do we actually have to pronounce it exactly as the Dutch do?

I suppose not, but Tim's Ajax anecdote reminds me of the ex-Liverpool keeper Jerzy Dudek. The correct pronunciation of his first name is something like /ye-ji/, but I remember feeling crestfallen when he mentioned his own name in an interview once and called himself 'Jersey', presumably in a bid to help his audience.

Maria's observation makes sense, by the way.

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

b-b-b-b-b-but the correct spelling of the good lord Johannes' name is Cruijff.

No songs for super Dirk as yet but he is rapidly turning into a huge Kop favourite :)

mainly for his amazing singing performances and his acceptance speech at teh Dutch football awards

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:26 (nineteen years ago)

Jerzy isn't ex quite yet - he might be a safer bet than Pepe at the moment!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:27 (nineteen years ago)

The Kop song should shurely be 'For the benefit of Mr Kuyt'.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

Ah nice one, JtN!

(xxpost) But uij = uy? Surely?

(xxxxpost) There's a girl from Cameroon in my office called Marie and my boss insist on pronouncing it the French way, Ma-*huge build up of catarrh*-hhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrie

― Tad Sneery (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:30 (nineteen years ago)

The Kop song should shurely be 'For the benefit of Mr Kuyt'

Ha ha

Or, unrealistic suggestion I know but, how about that early Momus song The Rules Of The Game Of Kuyts?

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

(xxpost) But uij = uy? Surely?

Yep. uij = uy = ui

― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:39 (nineteen years ago)

I just asked my husband. Of course Stan's right but I wanted to know why I mispronounced it. Stupid Bruges dialect. GrRrrRRRRrRrrrr (that's pronounced thick dumb Bruges woman)

Semi apropos of nothing: I fucking LOATHE the Dutch pronounciation. heh.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:42 (nineteen years ago)

The "uy" sound is similar to the way a Canadian would pronounce "ou" in "house"
-- Maria :D (djdutc...), September 13th, 2006 2:22 PM. (Maria D.) (link)

Uy had no idea. I thought they pronounced it "maison" ;-)

― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

Y'see when "Jeux Sans Frontieres" was on, British people got a chance to hear Dutch been spoken plus the Dutch editions were always the best

― Tad Sneery (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:54 (nineteen years ago)

Too silly to sit all the way through, I always thought. Apparently the series will start again next year.

― willem -- (willem), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

uij = uy = ui

So the Dutch word huis should be closer to 'Joyce' than 'house'.

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 12:02 (nineteen years ago)

(xpost) Yes but we had Stuart Hall commentating on it!

― Tad Sneery (Dada), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 12:04 (nineteen years ago)

Kuyt = someone from Somerset pronouncing "Kite".

― === temporary username === (Mark C), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 12:11 (nineteen years ago)

When I had just moved to the Netherlands and my pronunciation was still horrible, a friend over for dinner loved my guacamole and asked for the recipe, which I gave to her verbally. She proceeded to put egg in it instead of onion. Egg = ei; onion = ui. The sound is a clipped sound somewhere between i and ow.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 12:20 (nineteen years ago)

Maria ÖTM.

― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

I've just asked a Dutch-speaking colleague to say Kuyt's name and it sounded like someone from Northern Ireland, or possibly Scotland, saying the word 'scout' (without the s, obv).

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

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