Is anyone else having trouble posting to the 9/11 conspiracy thread?

it's dick cheney, on both counts

If the deliberate destruction of WTC 7 is part of a grand government conspiracy, then why would the timing of it be a decision made by a private citizen like Larry Silverstein and not somebody like Dick Cheney or an unnamable Pentagon/CIA/FBI/NSC dude?

there's no need for a "grand government conspiracy" when silverstein was a known and quite-large donor to rudy giuliani, and the latter actually moved the city's office of emergency management into wtc 7 despite the wtc being a target in 1993.

the only conspiracy here is that of incompetence and cronyism.

i just find it repugnant, is all. kinda surprised that you don't, but i guess "business as usual" new york-style is something you're into? because if it is, then that's exactly why nyc's response to 9/11 was so fucked...

http://www.bradlaner.com

He even guested on an Eno album and the last Vetiver.

And how do you respond to MKULTRA, Operation Northwoods, and the residents of St. George, Utah?

For that matter, how about the residents of Baghdad?

I know who he is, though if I wanted to be annoying I'd bring up the time I saw him play with Savage Republic.

why do conspiracy theorists never present answers, only ask more questions, and when pressed for a rational answer they slink away like bartleby saying nothing other than "it's pointless to argue with you people". brad if you KNOW something please tell us!

i was gonna get to that re: wtc 7. another reason putting the oem there was a dumb, dumb, dumb idea.

Actually, the best example would be the suicide bombers and their innocent, sweet home-life with their charmingly down-to-earth mother, contrasted with their terrorist campaign. The rich one who eggs them on...in one crossfade, even he is seen enjoying life with them, larking about on a seesaw and putting suicide missions behind him for once. MD is saying 'it doesn't have to be this way', and THAT is what completes its brilliance, for me.

And there was a James Bond sketch, in series 3 (I think), so there.

my reply was along the lines of 'well, I know whose side I'm on'. :)

xpost

Anyway, the guy linked to yet another 9/11 conspiracy video, similar to "loose change", but narrated by a woman who sounds like she's whacked out on reds:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-7143212690219513043&hl=en-CA

I noticed (I'm c&ping the other way now, apologies...)

1/they played the tape of the firefighter reporting 2 small fires on the 78th floor, claiming that the fires were not hot, oxygen starved, had burnt out etc. At the very same time the footage that was playing showed the building burning intensely, with smoke and flames visible emanating fom many locations across several floors

2/the structural alleged expert claiming that the exterior surface of the building was like a mosquito net, and that the fuselage of the plane had just poked a small hole in it, and he pushed a pencil through an actual mosquite net to demonstrate. Shortly before this (at asbout 6.25), they had showed an image of the face of the tower, showing a massive hole right across - 2/3 of the way at least across the face of the tower.

The actual images they show in their film directly contradict their own script!

I also looked at that brad guy's site, and he has a forum, which links to this clip:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=1951610169657809939&hl=en

In which, near the beginning, some other alleged "expert" is claiming that the tower collapse looks "exactly" like a "managed demolition", and the clip they're showing in the background shows a huge mushroom-shaped plume of debris spreading out as the building collapses. If this was what a "managed demolition" you'd paid for looked like, you'd be looking for a new demolition contractor next time you wanted a building pulled down. It looks NOTHING like a building being demolished! Really, wtf.

"The single impact of a jet liner was no more of a blow than the continued battering of a hurricane"

WHAT THE HOLY FUCK.

i just find it repugnant, is all. kinda surprised that you don't, but i guess "business as usual" new york-style is something you're into? because if it is, then that's exactly why nyc's response to 9/11 was so fucked...

I didn't say I didn't, but come on, that's the way like the entire business world works. I don't think that's really gonna change any time soon. If "'business as usual' new york-style" were something I'm into, why'd I vote for Mark Green over Cuomo? (Ed: he's Jewish. hey, I voted for him against Bloomie too.)

oh. i managed to post there fine a few minutes ago. hmm.

Couldja post a 'LAAAAANDAAAAN' there fer me, plz? Would be much appreciated. :-)

xpost: heheheheh, will do.

There were smaller tanks on the 5th, 6th, and 8th floors but the main tanks were at ground level. Pro-controlled demolition and anti-controlled demolition opinions on it.

Surprised you didn't get the reference... St. George, Utah was downwind from the Nevada Nuclear Test Site and had one of the highest rates of cancer in the world. The government publicly stated that the cancer risk from the fallout was minimal, but their own internal investigations concluded the opposite.

See also, The Straight Dope's entry on The Conqueror

It's the same issue I have with arguments about the grassy knoll. Who cares if there were more than one shooter... The important aspect is the macro-level view: who profits and whose agenda gets pushed forward.

Nah. I'm just annoyed that the Loose Change guys are hogging the debate. I have a hundred questions about September 11th, but I don't believe that anything was rigged beforehand.

1. fuck you

2. i'm not going to debunk the debunkers. my questions are valid and i'm not satisfied with the official answers. No amount of bullying and groupthink here will persuade me otherwise.

(and i'm not at all embarrased about my days in sandwich repugnant, elvis)

Is it because people are just manifesting their massive distrust and dislike of those currently in power? is it b/c people lead lives dull enough that they need big ass X-files/Tom Clancy intrigue and narrative to get involved with(like neo-cons and pro-war bloggers do)?

The other bit is that they struck right as you had the laziest yet most authoritarian group folks taking office, and who fell right for it. This resulted in pretty much the worst reasonably possible outcome for us and a really good outcome for them.

Maybe it is more difficult and/or scarier to believe that our current elected officials _were_ that lazy & disengaged & maybe stupid. Lazy enough to not care that much about public safety, or not react to the advance warning bits that were around, or not listen to all the previous Admin folks constantly warning them.

But how's that line go--"Never attribute to malice what you can assign to stupidity"?

i actually im down with the big boi side of that album now - in 03 it just seemed boring to dres abominable half

the new one has 2 good songs

That said, this:

The problem I have with most of the theorists is their reductionist and dogmatic stance. You either have to subscribe to *all* of their theories or you're a government dupe.

does accord with my experiences with jones-cultists online, and it is annoying. See that guy on the last thread, with his "neocon juniors" crack. Very obviously no-one posting here is anything remotely like a neocon, it does tend to suggest that the guy didn't actually do anything more than skim other people's posts. I've seen this a few times, 9/11 cultists get outraged that you didn't spent 1-1 1/2 hrs of your life sitting through yet another loose change knockoff, or perusing each and everyone of the 47 internet links they post to back up their claims, but the minute someone points out any glaring discrepancy in their story, they tend to either duckout, or change the subject. Yeah, I know this is SOP for interweb "debate" and probably irl debate as well, but it often seems a lot more pronounced w/these guys.

After a bunch of such guys turned up on SoS forum, someone mentioned that alex jones does not in fact have his own forum, instead encouraging his devotees to spread his word in other fora, somewhat like the e-moonies, I guess. Does anyone know if this is actually true or not, out of curiosity?

What's really infuriating though, is that these people who are "just asking questions" don't even bother to evaluate the answers you provide them. I don't mean they don't believe them, I mean they don't even bother to read them. Because they have their heart set on an idea, that the government is lying or covering something up, and they won't budge on that idea. These "questions" are not really questions at all. It's pure rhetoric.

I've listened to the various clips from his radio show that Jones sends out on his podcasts, and he doesn't specifically ask people to strike web forums a la alt.syntax.tactical.

- The WTC was designed to withstand a small jet at approaching speed, not a 757 at over 500 mph.

- Steel does not need to be anywhere near melting temperature to be structurally weakened (which is all anyone ever claimed happen).

-The towers did not actually collapse at "near freefall speed."

-WTC 7 did not pancake

Whole thread worth it for this.

Producer of 9/11 Conspiracy Film Loose Change Arrested for Deserting the Army

my main problem with them (besides you know the anne coulter style attacks on widows, etc.) is that they always make for the absolute dullest coast to coast shows.

OH MAN this is so OTM.

National Geographic Channel: 9-11 Science and Conspiracy
premieres Monday Aug 1st 9pm primetime

That video reminds me that we're about to see a depressing resurgence of 09.11 images as news sites begin to roll out their defining-events-of-the-decade features.

9pm, I'm gonna watch it tonight

terrible. the experiments they did were so scaled down and inconsistent that they shouldn't have even been shown on tv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMwqdWhERM

voice of a generation

i wonder if its the new world order secret forces that are preventing him from buying clothes that fit