British Food: Classic or Dud (S&D too)

Both of these are due of fanatical minorities who will need a lot of quelling, including extensive legislation. But there is one point on which public opinion could bring about a rapid change for the better: I mean cooking.

It is commonly said, even by the English themselves, that English cooking is the worst in the world. It is supposed to be not merely incompetent, but also imitative, and I even read quite recently, in a book by a French writer, the remark: ‘The best English cooking is, of course, simply French cooking.’

Now that is simply not true, as anyone who has lived long abroad will know, there is a whole host of delicacies which it is quite impossible to obtain outside the English-speaking countries. No doubt the list could be added to, but here are some of the things that I myself have sought for in foreign countries and failed to find.

First of all, kippers, Yorkshire pudding, Devonshire cream, muffins and crumpets. Then a list of puddings that would be interminable if I gave it in full: I will pick out for special mention Christmas pudding, treacle tart and apple dumplings. Then an almost equally long list of cakes: for instance, dark plum cake (such as you used to get at Buzzard’s before the war), short-bread and saffron buns. Also innumerable kinds of biscuit, which exist, of course, elsewhere, but are generally admitted to be better and crisper in England.

Then there are the various ways of cooking potatoes that are peculiar to our own country. Where else do you see potatoes roasted under the joint, which is far and away the best way of cooking them? Or the delicious potato cakes that you get in the north of England? And it is far better to cook new potatoes in the English way — that is, boiled with mint and then served with a little melted butter or margarine — than to fry them as is done in most countries.

Then there are the various sauces peculiar to England. For instance, bread sauce, horse-radish sauce, mint sauce and apple sauce; not to mention redcurrant jelly, which is excellent with mutton as well as with hare, and various kinds of sweet pickle, which we seem to have in greater profusion than most countries.

What else? Outside these islands I have never seen a haggis, except one that came out of a tin, nor Dublin prawns, nor Oxford marmalade, nor several other kinds of jam (marrow jam and bramble jelly, for instance), nor sausages of quite the same kind as ours.

Then there are the English cheeses. There are not many of them but I fancy Stilton is the best cheese of its type in the world, with Wensleydale not far behind. English apples are also outstandingly good, particularly the Cox’s Orange Pippin.

And finally, I would like to put in a word for English bread. All the bread is good, from the enormous Jewish loaves flavoured with caraway seeds to the Russian rye bread which is the colour of black treacle. Still, if there is anything quite as good as the soft part of the crust from an English cottage loaf (how soon shall we be seeing cottage loaves again?) I do not know of it.

No doubt some of the things I have named above could be obtained in continental Europe, just as it is possible in London to obtain vodka or bird’s nest soup. But they are all native to our shores, and over huge areas they are literally unheard of.

South of, say, Brussels, I do not imagine that you would succeed in getting hold of a suet pudding. In French there is not even a word that exactly translates ‘suet’. The French, also, never use mint in cookery and do not use black currants except as a basis of a drink.

It will be seen that we have no cause to be ashamed of our cookery, so far as originality goes or so far as the ingredients go. And yet it must be admitted that there is a serious snag from the foreign visitor’s point of view. This is, that you practically don’t find good English cooking outside a private house. If you want, say, a good, rich slice of Yorkshire pudding you are more likely to get it in the poorest English home than in a restaurant, which is where the visitor necessarily eats most of his meals.

It is a fact that restaurants which are distinctively English and which also sell good food are very hard to find. Pubs, as a rule, sell no food at all, other than potato crisps and tasteless sandwiches. The expensive restaurants and hotels almost all imitate French cookery and write their menus in French, while if you want a good cheap meal you gravitate naturally towards a Greek, Italian or Chinese restaurant. We are not likely to succeed in attracting tourists while England is thought of as a country of bad food and unintelligible by-laws. At present one cannot do much about it, but sooner or later rationing will come to an end, and then will be the moment for our national cookery to revive. It is not a law of nature that every restaurant in England should be either foreign or bad, and the first step towards an improvement will be a less long-suffering attitude in the British public itself.

Currently I am preserving and pickling like billy-o. I should have access to a great quantity of apples for making chutneys next week.

Rick Stein goes around cooking amazing looking cassoulets and whatnot but then says his favourite dish is battered fish n' chips, the menk!

I often wonder how popular the 'English breakfast' i.e. big greasy fry-up really is with foreign visitors.

D: Full English Breakfast, Most fast food, poor quality processed food, dodgy versions and poor attempts at above list. Breads and patisserie generally not up to standard on continent, though getting better.

OTM re pork pies too. The ones starry and others got from the great British beer festival tasted superb and quite different to typical shop ones.

Also fruit pudding (white pudding with candied fruit in)is a bizarre but tasty scottish breakfast delicacy.

I find it highly amusing how popular crumble has become in France.

haven't had a pasty (West Cornwall co. or otherwise) for ages now, missing them (much better than patties imo)

Yes, it's because we've all got bad teeth.

This bread mushiness thing is nonsense, I've never had a problem finding nice bread in the UK.

Haha what is a bit of fun in the UK for Americans, going off subject for a second, is getting things that are readily available in the US but are completely different in the UK. Ex: sushi, ketchup, Coca-cola (for the record our sushi restaurants beat yours but your ketchup and coke is 10x more palatable)

This bread mushiness thing is nonsense, I've never had a problem finding nice bread in the UK.

while its getting better in the UK, bread quality runs like this:

FRENCH BREAD>UK BREAD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>US BREAD

Haha what is a bit of fun in the UK for Americans, going off subject for a second, is getting things that are readily available in the US but are completely different in the UK. Ex: sushi, ketchup, Coca-cola (for the record our sushi restaurants beat yours but your ketchup and coke is 10x more palatable)

my friend aaron from LA cannot stand british coca-cola (and is a straight-edge musician often touring the UK), though to be honest most convenience stores now sell coke that's bottled all over the place (cheaply imported i guess). there was a time i could tell the difference between coke bottled in the uk and in eire.

The lardy cake turned out amazing, regardless.

And yeah, the things that contain copious amounts of high fructose corn syrup in the US tend not to in other countries, leading to a pretty noticable difference in taste.

you're right, of course - i've had some delicious sourdough in the states before. but the difference is you can find ace bread in UK supermarkets, which i haven't seen in the US supermarkets i've been to (but the last i visited tbh would be austin 2004). american bread i've eaten from supermarkets has been insanely nasty, airy, weirdly-textured stuff.

my point for myself was maybe i failed to sufficiently appreciate the flavors of what i was eating because i was first experiencing it through a less-familiar textural lens. (and i shouldn't have passed up the epicerie at orrery.)

http://www.blackfriarsbakery.co.uk/product_pics%5CFlapjacks.jpg

Not to be confused with the US pancake style flapjacks.

bah xpost

Laughing Halibut - that takes me back - think I last went there in my schooldays.

Hackney one is Sutton & Son - v good

Ty, I will check out that one! Wasn’t impressed by Sutton & Sons when I lived in Hackney.

presumably new ownership - it seems very 'recent' idk

sheerness worth a visit regardless - a few v interesting places on the high st

im starvin now ye fuckeds me insides are touchin

I am still very sad I never got to try Guinness Marmite.

I think our best meals on our summer vacation last year were in Newcastle. Considering that any family dining for us has to meet the preferences of A) the sensible pescatarian B) the sausage appetizer with a steak entree hardman C) the eight-year-old young lady who likes some fried things, some green things, and not much else

WRT Australian Food being well grounded in British food, Australia takes the meat pie to new heights. I will rep for the steak pie from the Caltex servo in Penong, SA, (next to the windmill museum) as being one of the best in existence.

My grandma was 100% australian, never been to England & still somehow cooked like a Brit expat every day of her life. Steamed puddings, trifles, kedgereee, every boiled vegetable known to man...

I am still very sad I never got to try Guinness Marmite.
― Yerac, Friday, 24 January 2020 01:09 (twenty hours ago)

It didn't taste different in any way!

I often wonder what the US/whatever tourists in London really think when they have their shite fish and chips in a pub in a bland pub in zone 1. Poor sods. It really is true 90% of fish and chip shops are very ordinary.

Yeah I think they did a champagne Marmite one time and that tasted just like regular Marmite, 😥

Literally the worst thing about Hull is chippies don't do potato scallops

Muswell Hill (of course) has a gourmet fish n' chippy, bit out of the way for the average tourist though

Marmite is still made in Burton-on-Trent, I think, having outlived the brewing industry it is a by-product of there.
Yes, Guinness flavour Marmite was nothing special, but Marmite flavour Guinness is still widely available in corner shops.

There's still a humongous brewery in Burton, one of the multinationals iirc, and yeah they make Marmite there too. We used to go shopping there once a fortnight or so when I was a kid, the whole town stank of yeast

Having just visited there at the weekend I can confirm that Edinburgh still smells of yeast too.

hmmmm... supposedly trying to make homemade marmite is "dangerous and hard to control".

Just found a "recipe" that takes 10 days

I really miss the cheap fishcakes I used to get from the fish and chips shops in Liverpool as a kid.

actually bought my first ever squeezy marmite yesterday, will report back on the consistency.

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, January 23, 2020 9:08 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

My report is that it's just regular marmite. The pot is good though, it dispenses the very thin stream which you need.

Cheesy chips at Cheltenham Town (@CTFCofficial)

💷 £3 pic.twitter.com/B3ACM7OCbP

— Footy Scran (@FootyScran) December 26, 2021

This may be an appropriate thread for me to rediscover the enthusiasm expressed by ILX whenever DUMPLINGS! get mentioned.

Muswell Hill (of course) has a gourmet fish n' chippy, bit out of the way for the average tourist though

assuming it's the same one, somewhat impressed it's still going. there was a fancy fish & chips place there when I lived there 2003-6. I only went there a couple of times because the queues were ludicrous but it was pretty good (and didn't cost a fortune either, 17 years ago anyway)

I had some very bland chips at Whaddon Road in 2003 with no not very melty cheese slices. My most notable memory of the day was the house right next to the football ground with a boarded up window where presumably a league two standard defensive hoof had smashed through it at some point.

Pie, peas, gravy and a sausage roll at Barnoldswick Town (@barlickfc)

💷 £5.50 pic.twitter.com/21EWlCWcH6

— Footy Scran (@FootyScran) December 1, 2022

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/448060749_994431525804505_7365964657292824280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=M7CaJEw_fUsQ7kNvgEGASVc&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AYAQ5qrUR2SIUABQfAUKMZR4Orr2Ycq3wSck3mJCfoaNMQ&oe=66710D4A

would eat

was talking about old sandwiches last night, my Irish grandad's fave one was the tomato sandwich. When he was dying of cancer and almost gone he requested a tomato sandwich and a double whiskey. A tomato sandwich!

When I first arrived in Sydney Australia, I wandered into a 'deli' place and saw 'asparagus sandwich' on the board... I had very American notions of what a sandwich should be, but what was handed to me was: white bread with margarine and mercilessly boiled stalks of asparagus, probably from a tin.. that was it. I did finish it, but would never order again

the australia/britisher “salad sandwich” is something i miss terribly

and yeah asparagus sandwich is something i DONT miss

i didnt try fresh asparagus til i moved to the US, grew up thinking that i hated it because i had only ever had it from a can ie gross

the australia/britisher “salad sandwich” is something i miss terribly

'Salad roll'? I remember thinking 'who the fuck puts beets on a sandwich?' lol

Mmmm liver sosage

xpost yeah salad roll too!
canned beetroot = classic

I've seen that photo before and can only lament the lack of corned beef

it's just to the left of the ham, 14p

pence then, pounds now probably

wots that milk chocolate bar with the foil wrapping? thought it was a kitkat at first glance.

xp not in Hull

I think that's Cadbuys BAR SIX calzino

I think it says 'Milk Chocolate Wafer Bar' on the spine, does what it says on the tin I guess

Just not getting whether the cheese in the footy cheese and chips being slices is intentional. Thought it tended to be grated for a reason. Blending in with the chips and possibly garlic sauce as you eat it better.
Just seems to be less easy with square slices like.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36844288@N00/38407126214

getting Nazi vibes tbh

xpost it just says ‘milk chocolate wafer bar’ on the spine so likely a generic knock off? Premium Golden Winder crisps though! I don’t remember pressed veal sandwiches at all shudder

lol this thread is moving fast!

I would eat all these. My depraved soul. Covid did off most of the independent sandwich shops in London. There are a couple left that look like this, one on Eastcheap I think. Corned Beef and tomato for me.

“Footy cheese and chips” not conjuring pleasant images

even choc bar is a knockoff - the absolute chunkiness of it, that's something we've lost

It was Footy Scran cheese and chips and was from 2021.
Not sure if it was being pictured as delightful or a mistake. Seems not to be the best preparation.

Up thread a bit.

cheesy French fry style chips with processed cheese slices is absolutely unforgivable, easily meltable cheddar grated over chunky chips fresh from the fryer is the only acceptable version. last time I had it was at Cambridge Utd, correct kind of cheese but sprinkled lightly over cold French fries, very crap, all the food at Cambridge utd is crap.