Bob Rae: Classic or Dud?

We ran into Rae just the other day, and asked him how he thought his campaign was going.

"Oh good, I think. It seems fewer people think I'm nuts than when I started."

If he were to win (which I realize is an outside chance), would it be the first time since Trudeau that someone with NDP/socialist roots had a shot at PM? I'm half-tempted to sign up and back him all the way just for that but I actually don't know what to think of his former premiership. What is the verdict on that? Was he screwed over by big business and the media? Was he a bumbling fool?

I think there's a feeling these days that he had the misfortune to be elected just as the recession hit (the onset of which cannot be blamed on the NDP). The terrible economy made the provincial NDP look much worse than they actually were -- incoming socialist govt + rapidly declining economy = worst combination possible. That's not to say that he didn't make bad decisions on top of the bad situation presented to him.

Rae spoke at my family's synagogue while he was still premier, a few months before the 1995 election campaign started. I can't remember how it was arranged for him to speak there, but my whole family went to Friday night services for the, uh, ONLY time ever to hear him speak. We were hardcore Liberals during the 1990 election but by 1995 we all felt sorry for him, for the most part.

I get your broader point and this may have been the case with Rae's govt but I don't think this equation always holds (or even has held, in Canadian history).

Honestly, I was too young at the time to even really judge his administration. I remember thinking even then that some of his ideas weren't as bad as they were getting made out to be. I would like to read more about it.

(And I can only hope that a Rae-led Liberal govt would be less corrupt than the last. If nothing else, I have to give the Cons props for at least appearing scrupulous.)

From the Teleprompter of Michael Ignatieff

Ladies and Gentlemen, honored guests, protester standing silently at the back of the room with a bag on his head, thank you for coming here today.

It has been almost one year now since I made the difficult decision to immigrate to Canada and run for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada. Since that time I have taken clear positions on difficult issues and I have taken difficult positions on clear issues. Unfortunately, many people do not seem to understand what I am talking about. If anyone is at fault here it is me; please bear with me Canada, I am used to teaching the advanced class.

I asked you to come here today so that I may clarify my statements concerning an earlier clarification about a statement I may or may not have meant to make.

As you may know earlier this year my summer vacation overseas was interrupted by a small war between Israel and Lebanon. The fact that my vacation was interrupted by this war is not in doubt. I have made myself unequivocally clear about this point.

After returning to Canada, during a frank discussion about the war, I stated that I was not losing sleep over civilian deaths in Lebanon. Some people wrongly interpreted this to mean that I was not losing sleep over civilian deaths in Lebanon. What I should have said at the time was this: I am not losing sleep over civilian deaths in Lebanon because I suffer from hysterical narcolepsy, a rare neurological disorder. Because of this condition it is not just civilian deaths that I sleep through, but sometimes entire movies and even midair turbulence. I hope now by admitting this condition I will not only clear up this unfortunate Middle East situation but also help the other half dozen of my fellow Americans who suffer from this disorder. For too long we have suffered in silence. Please visit www.hystericalnarcolepsy.org and learn more about this condition. Hysterical narcolepsy – the confusion is real.

Let us now deal with the elephant in the room. While campaigning in Quebec I stated that Israel was guilty of war crimes. Please know I made these comments in French and never intended them to be heard by English voters. Clearly everything I have read about the two solitudes is a fallacy. I now believe that the bridge between French and English Canada is the fluently bilingual Toronto Jew. I encourage them to now join me. In fact I would like to take a moment and speak directly to the good men and women of the Holy Blossom temple in Toronto. I say to you my Jewish friends – it’s Iggy time! (Pause for applause)

Please, please sit. There is more! (Wave finger)

In an effort to keep this story in the media during the coming weeks I have now decided to visit Israel for myself. I think you will agree that the crucial last days of a leadership race is the perfect time for a candidate to leave Canada.

The purpose of this trip will be twofold. Not only will I be able to analyze and solve the Israel Lebanon issue, but I have also requested that the Canada-Israel Committee who is sponsoring this trip arrange a stopover in Paris on the way back so I can get a good meal. I have been in Canada for months now and my friends I am getting antsy. (Chuckle kindly)

When I return from my pilgrimage to the holy land I think you will see a refreshed and tanned Michael Ignatieff, one who is ready to tackle the job of running Canada for all of you. And when I say you, I mean the fishers, the farmers and the Mennonites that make this country strong.

Speaking of Canada, recently a little boy in Canada’s countryside asked me a very intriguing question. “Sir,” he said, “why do you want to run all of Canada?”

I will tell you now what I told him then.

Canada is in my osseous tissue! (pause for applause)

Like you I care about Canadian values and Canadian pastimes. I know what it’s like to clear one’s mind and enjoy the thrust and parry that is found in an exciting ice hockey game. In fact I don’t mind admitting that I have always been, since the 1968 Trudeau leadership campaign in which I was a delegate, a supporter of the Toronto Maple Leafs. My support for the Leafs is something that is pure and true and can never be taken away from me. If there is political price to pay for such an admission I readily accept it. Mesdames et Messieurs, j’aime Les Canadiens. Les Leafs de Toronto sont gay! Vive les Sens! Vive les Sens libre!

I want to thank your for your time today ladies and gentlemen. And on a personal note I would like to thank the numerous people who have sent me letters and cards encouraging me during these recent dark, gaffe riddled days of the campaign. But let me tell you this. When I embarked on this adventure I knew it would not be easy. And when the going gets tough, when I think I cannot bear another conversation with another Canadian or another question about Bob Rae, I simply close my eyes and think of that great Canadian Terry Fox. And it is that image of Terry Fox courageously circling the globe in his wheel chair that gives me the courage to move forward.

(Pause for really really big round of applause)

Thank you for your support

I embrace you!

Being the front runner in the Liberal grand-boo-bah contest is obviously way too much scrutiny for the Iggster to cope with.
Polls were already showing canuks would much rather have Rae up there. It's starting to look more and more like Bob will be our man to take on Harpo and his marauding crew of dog lovers and Iggy will quietly slink back south of the boarder after the dust settles. Good times!

It's funny because it's true, etc.

I have taken clear positions on difficult issues and I have taken difficult positions on clear issues.

However, what I'd truly like to see is Ken Dryden as Liberal leader with guys like Rae and others pulling the strings. I'm not a fan of hockey (far from it!), but talk about a sure-fire way to get a bunch of jocks to actually vote (i'm not tarring all jocks with the same brush, just the stereotypical ones). I've been doing my own little poll, and every hockey fan I've asked has given me an enthusiastic "Fuckin' A! I'd vote for Ken Dryden!"

I think he'd start out as a figure-head just because of his lack of experience, but the man is highly intelligent and I think he'd be a quick learn. Again, Bob's my personal choice, but I think Dryden is the surest bet to send Harper packing.

And like I said, Dryden's not my ideal choice as the best candidate for Liberal leadership, he simply has a name that is both recognizable and liked by countless Canadians who generally don't bother voting at all, or often vote Conservative because they feel voting Liberal makes them a bleeding-heart-wuss! So again, I would see him installed as a figure head who has the potential to both steal votes from the conservatives and get many out to vote who normally don't. However, his intelligence and compassion make me believe he wouldn't remain such a novice for long.

I think Bob Rae is the man for the job, but unfortunately there are so many people who will simply not vote for him based upon their skewed version of his time as Ontario Premier. Rae is highly intelligent, he's obviously left-leaning but tired that the NDP is "committed to protest - not good government", and by all acounts he's a hell of a nice guy (as is Dryden evidently).

Unfortunately as of yesterday some polls are showing that Iggy has a 10 point lead over Rae, and that's probably due in large part to the current opinion of Ontarions (I live near Toronto, so I "are" one).
Hard to believe after all of Iggy's gaffs, but I still can't believe we have Reform Party/Canadian Alliance Harper as PM, so there you have it.

You're talking about him like he entered politics only recently and doesn't have a political track record by which to judge him -- IOW, you're talking about him like he's Iggy.

Is it fair to assume that you feel the Liberal party is the dud, and therefore you will feel the same way about anyone who is in contention for the leadership?

my point with rae is that whatever background he may have in the NDP, becoming leader of the liberals will not change what is a deeply corporate party. IOW, he's pretending that this party is progressive but it isn't. he's a better guy than iggy, no question, but i have severe doubts about his 'good guy' credentials given how comfortable he is with a party that isn't good.

politically speaking, though, rae should be the choice over iggy, who's a bit of a gong show. the liberals are surely sharp enough to see that, and out of the 4 top candidates, i think that rae is the only one credible enough to lead them through a general election.

This is why the Liberals always get elected, and will get elected regardless of who their leader is (although I'm rooting for Rae).

derrick, do you really mean ever? Even Trudeau's first two terms?

I'm still saying that it's going to be Rae on the second ballot. And that would be okay--a recent front page story in the Mop and Pail suggested that the Liberals have the best shot at taking back the country from the sociopaths currently in charge with Rae at the helm.

Yeah, I think they've said so themselves. The always-reliable Wikipedia seems to suggest so.

The federal NDP have no chance of getting my vote until Jack is no longer in charge, or I see significant changes in his approach. He really needs to listen to Bob's words of wisdom about the party in my opinion.

That or he should go all out and rock the leisure suit and aviator shades with the 'stache.

Liberals = sometimes good; mostly not
NDP = sometimes ridiculous
Conservatives = the most awful thing for Canada since cold weather

I am further left than the Liberals, and have voted NDP more than not. When Jack dropped the Liberal minority and opened the potential for a Conservative victory he threatened many things that he and the NDP completely agree with, and that the Liberals had put into place. While there are many examples, the biggest that comes to mind is of course same sex marriage.

In addition, the Progressive Cons had only recently (well, a little over 2 years, but nevertheless) agreed to merge with the damn Canadian Alliance. Definitely not the most prudent time for the far left to bring down a Liberal minority. He would have been better served by forming a coalition gov't with the Libs, assuring Canadians that the NDPs presence would get the Liberals back in check and keep them honest.

Sorry I derailed again. Bob Rae. There, at least I mentioned his name! ;)

I mean, your point about the coalition makes sense but I think a change that is hopefully forcing the Liberals to make major changes (including electing a leader from outside the usual clique) may be good in the long run.

Also, the NDP significantly gained seats and increased their share of the popular vote even in Layton's first election.

As far as the role of the NDP in our government is concerned I don't think that anywhere in the NDP charter does it say anything about being the supplemental for the Liberal party. If they are corrupt and not delivering on promises why would the NDP be obligated to keep them in power; regardless if it's the Liberals or Conservatives or even the Socialist Party of Canada - a shitty government is a shitty government. Anyone who wants to blame the NDP for the conservative gov't we have now needs to redirect their angst back at their precious fucking Liberal Party. They fucked up PERIOD The NDP owes nothing to the Liberals and does not exist to prop them up when they've dropped the ball.

And while I do agree that the NDp will certainly see a drop in support when we get our shiny new fantastic-look-at-us-now-with-less-corruption Liberal Party (unless led by Iggy) - they will be far from decimated.

Jack obviously prefers to be a cowboy than someone helping to shape Canadian policy. During the last election, he talked like he was the one running the country, not the leader of a party with less than 10% of the seats. I said it was the wrong thing to do at the time, and I still believe it. All the attention in government is on Harper right now -- where is Jack Layton these days? And watch the NDP's support plummet the minute the Liberals choose their leader.

That was not my point – I was taking issue with shorty blaming him for Harper being in power.

I think you and I had this discussion during the election campaign, even before it became clear that Harper was going to win. I think you're flip-flopping! haha

Thought possession of small amounts was decriminalized (as opposed to legalized), i.e. it's a contravention punishable only by a fine as opposed to a criminal offence?

No one said that Thermo, but there is something to the notion of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Also, I thought I made it fairly clear that I have always found myself more in the NDP camp than the Liberals, so this was not a case of defending my "precious fucking Liberal Party". The NDP has lost a main supporter in me (it would be more accurate to describe the NDP as "precious" to me than the Liberals) because of many of Jack's actions, not least of which was his untimely decision to flush the Liberal minority.

Of course the NDP don't owe the Liberals anything. But if they want to keep my support, they certainly owe something to me, and Jack isn't paying. I completely agree with NoTime's quote: Jack obviously prefers to be a cowboy than someone helping to shape Canadian policy

Despite some of our disagreement, it's pretty clear that we're all fairly close in our general political leanings.

Recent polls continue to suggest that Round Two in Montreal will be totally unpredictable.

No. It died. Thanks to Jack Layton's wing of the Liberal party.

Can I have some bkgd on this? Do you just mean that it died b/c of the Liberal minority falling early? JL has been explicity pro-legalization otherwise. I thought there was at least a period when there wasn't really any clear law on the subject and it was effectively decriminalized. (I saw cops watching a field full of people having an openly advertised pot-fest in Edmonton on Canada Day 2003.)