So, chimps are people too, are they?

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Horizon at 9pm on BBC2 last night, in which we were told that human genetic makeup is 99.4% similar to that of a chimp.... did anyone else see this? I was irritated by the twatty presenter, and unimpressed by most of it. Although having a conversation in English (via an electronic picture-board with synthesised speech) with a bonobo chimp was pretty cool.

― C J (C J), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 07:47 (nineteen years ago)

It wasn't all that amazing to see a chimp put noodles in a saucepan of boiling water - I guess you can teach them that sort of thing quite easily - but the presenter getting all excited and saying "wow! a chimp has just made himself a pot noodle!" had me roffling out loud.

― C J (C J), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 07:51 (nineteen years ago)

Have they forgotten the beer-drinking horses already?

― The Real Esteban Buttez (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 07:58 (nineteen years ago)

This programme pissed me right off. His arguments were mince and nothing new. The genetic make-up may be close, they may look human-like, but other than that.... Using tools and language isn't unique to humans and apes, birds do it too.

But you can't dress a bird in dungarees.

― Rumpsy Pumpsy (Rumpie), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

But chimps don't associate in criminal activities with pirates.

They're smart enough to know the real money is in banana smuggling rather than burying spanish dubloons.

― The Real Esteban Buttez (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 08:40 (nineteen years ago)

True...

― Rumpsy Pumpsy (Rumpie), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 08:41 (nineteen years ago)

monkeys. ugh.

― sunny successor (katharine), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

Or are people just chimps?

http://wpln.org/news/transcripts/?p=964/

Monday, October 09th, 2006
Fingernails on a Chalkboard Study Wins Award

A Vanderbilt Psychologist is being honored for his work regarding one of the most universally unpleasant sounds.

Two decades ago, Randolph Blake worked with colleagues at Northwestern University set out to discover just why just about everyone is bothered by the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard. They began with the hypothesis that the sound’s upper frequencies were simply too high for comfort, but were surprised to find that the middle tones were the actual culprit.

After comparing those middle frequencies to other sounds in nature, Blake says they discovered a nearly identical match in the sounds primates make to warn of danger.

“So our speculation, ‘course this, our results didn’t prove this, but our speculation was that the reason this sound, fingernails on a chalkboard, has this kind of universal aversive quality is that it triggers in us an unconscious automatic reflex of we’re hearing-that we’re hearing a warning cry.”

Last week, the study was singled out for an Ig Nobel Prize for Acoustics. The award is given by the Society for Improbable Research to imaginative projects that make people first laugh and then think.

Blake accepted the award during a ceremony at Harvard, in which actual Nobel laureates served as presenters.

The event will be featured the day after Thanksgiving on NPR’s Talk of the Nation/Science Friday.

By Nina Cardona

― molly d (mollyd), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 10:53 (nineteen years ago)

If chimps are people, does that mean they can be put on trial for MURDER when they kill each other? It's all swings and roundabouts.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:11 (nineteen years ago)

tyre swings, yes?

― teh_kit (g-kit), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:12 (nineteen years ago)

Mostly swings

bah xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:13 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.tomsimpson.org/images/Computer-Monkey.gif

Ah they discovered the closeness after watching us posting to ILX!

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 11:15 (nineteen years ago)

The genetic similarity is significant but doesn't tell the whole story - there are other factors that more interesting:

1) You can get a transfusion from a chimpanzee
2) Chimpanzees can catch every disease humans can, with the exception of cholera
3) Some scientists have recommended moving chimps into our genus - homo troglodyte (this is probably far too psychologically damaging for most people to accept)
4) They're the only animal to engage in coalitionary acts of violence unrelated to survival (Goodall's group has documented cases of chimps forming bands, hunting down members of other tribes, and killing them - this is not usual animal behavior)

― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

forming bands

The Monkees?

― C J (C J), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:14 (nineteen years ago)

I prefer dolphins

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

and that's what happens when you don't Hail to the Chimp!

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

Bonobos are also cheeky, sex-mad little hedonists.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:31 (nineteen years ago)

They began with the hypothesis that the sound’s upper frequencies were simply too high for comfort, but were surprised to find that the middle tones were the actual culprit.

Any schoolchild who watched Newton's Apple in the late '80s/early '90s could've told you this.

― c('°c) (Leee), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

we were told that human genetic makeup is 99.4% similar to that of a chimp

When I think about it, that number seems low.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

I can imagine a conversation with a bonobo would be saucy at the very least...

― Abbott (Abbott), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:47 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, that's not breaking news. There's only like 226 different genes or something.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

I read two ideas that attempt to explain the sudden "horizontal" evolution of humanity: bacteria is the more common [non]-explanation, I think and mitochondria is the other one. Both are odd. Either one came from aliens, I'm sure.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

Also interesting:

Chimps have developed 'local' cultures. Groups of chimps in certain areas have developed different habits and manners. Some populations have figured out termite fishing, others haven't. Some groom in a particular way, others don't.

xp sudden "horizontal" evolution? explain.

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

are they ghey people?

― researching ur life (grady), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

explanation: suddenly, what should have taken millions more years happened very quickly: humanity appeared. They call this "horizontal" evolution because it is so speedy and the result is that we are the only animal on the planet subject to so many thousands of deadly diseases (our immune system has not evolved as fast as the rest of us).

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

and, the dropping of the larynx made speech--as well as choking, hahaha--possible (as neither had been before).

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

....and when, exactly, did humanity 'appear?'

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

Like 6,000 years ago, obv.

― Abbott (Abbott), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not an encyclopedia. It just seems that way because I am so smart.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

UH.

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:05 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.answers.com/topic/horizontal-gene-transfer

Something like that is about what I read a while back.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

Also, I'm relatively certain my kitty is 99.4% chimp.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

Genetically, you're not far off.

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:18 (nineteen years ago)

she makes squeaky monkey noises, too

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

when, exactly, did humanity 'appear?'

35,000 years ago, exactly!

― Kiwi (Kiwi), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:52 (nineteen years ago)

Genesis Chap 2, obv.

― researching ur life (grady), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:57 (nineteen years ago)

Pinker said 'Anyone who has both children and house pets has surely noticed that the children exposed to language will develop language, in turn, whereas the house pets will not.'

Not that you would keep a chimp as a house pet, but, you know.

― Devoichitsa (Devoichitsa), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

35,000 years ago, exactly!

On a wednesday, if I'm not mistaken.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:05 (nineteen years ago)

indeed, pls pray today for 'soul infusion wednesday'

devo self awareness seems a better line than language?

― Kiwi (Kiwi), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:21 (nineteen years ago)

i don't know about you but when i'm thinking of myself in relation to other it tends to develop in words most clearly, whether internal monologue or soliloquy.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:33 (nineteen years ago)

Yep I guess you're right, and it seems that maybe they have some kind of theory of mind in relation to other chimps: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/CogSci/Seyfarth.html

There's a theory that people with autism / Asperger's who are of relatively high IQ are able to enter into fluent social interactions by 'hacking' them through systemising the language of the interactions.

― Devoichitsa (Devoichitsa), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:36 (nineteen years ago)

It goes pre-language. Studies have shown that music conveys meaning and even (apparently) represents shades of color and archetypal shapes (ie. people said C# sounds "red" and makes me think of this imagery).

Think of neutrinos and WIMPs passing through everything, conveying information in ways we can only evolve to eventually grasp. Pass me some of that dumbass over there, hey boy.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I bin doing all that on my course.

Adversary, are you one of those Mysterians?

― Devoichitsa (Devoichitsa), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:42 (nineteen years ago)

No, I am even stranger than that.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:43 (nineteen years ago)

oh...

― Devoichitsa (Devoichitsa), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:46 (nineteen years ago)

Seriously, I basically agree with a lot of it, I just think we can evolve quicker by choice and personal effort through various methods which have been known and recorded for thousands of years, but have been basically ignored by most people.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:50 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I was going to go to bed but I can't now. How can we do anything to evolve in our own lifetimes? Or am I completely missing the point?

― Devoichitsa (Devoichitsa), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:51 (nineteen years ago)

oh! darn it! horizontal... hang on am going to the link now

― Devoichitsa (Devoichitsa), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

Right. Do you mean that we could get better at selecting which bacteria we're interested in ingesting?

― Devoichitsa (Devoichitsa), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

It's "new age shit" which I doubt anyone wants me to elaborate on. Basically, I am talking about evolving through certain throught processes and attitudes, sound & color rituals, meditation and exercises, just like the Lamas, Yogis and other occultists always have. There is a point where interesting things begin to happen (and you do not have to join a cult or be brainwashed or even hang out with anyone else).

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 35 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Also in the early 1970's, a chimpanzee named Washoe was taught to communicate in American Sign Language (ASL) by Beatrix and Allen Gardner at the University of Nevada in Reno. She was immersed in an environment where she learned to use ASL in daily interactions with her human companions. Washoe learned 132 different words in her time with the Gardners. In time since, four other chimps have also been taught to sign and they, along with Washoe, are the subject of study by Roger and Deborah Fouts. These five chimps, who consider themselves a family, now use many more signs than they were ever expected to learn (Washoe herself can use up to 240 reliable signs) ,and sign not only to the humans, but also to each other to communicate. Washoe even taught her own adopted son to sign without human intervention (Fouts).

Many linguists still believe that apes have no real grasp of human language, but are merely imitating their human companions. They insist that while apes may understand individual symbols or words, they do not understand the concepts of syntax, or how words are put together to form a complete idea. However, evidence is continually proving that the nonhuman primate mind is capable of advanced thought (Rayl 89).

Chimpanzees have shown the ability to communicate using ASL to human observers and other chimpanzees about the normal course of surrounding events. They use signs to create natural language categories; for example, they will sign "dog" when shown many different species of dogs and "shoe" whether it be a slipper or a cowboy boot. They can invent new signs and combine signs to metaphorically express something different, for example: calling a radish "cry hurt food" or referring to a watermelon as a "drink fruit" (Fouts). They can comprehend and produce novel prepositional phrases, understand vocal English, translate words into ASL and even transmit their signing skills to the next generation without human intervention.

Studying how chimps acquire and use sign and other symbolic language gives us a better understanding of how humans acquire language skills and provides another model with which we can study the role of language in communication. It also helps us to better understand the roots of our human language. In addition, chimp language research has been used to help non-communicating children to sign, and has aided autistic, cerebal palsied, and developmentally disabled children (Fouts).

If we view the chimpanzee not as if he were our contemporary, but as if he were some ancestor of ours, the value of studying chimpanzee communication and use of language may be more fully seen. As has been demonstrated, chimps have a rich social life and good communication skills. Many researchers feel that chimpanzees show through their communication that they are developing toward the threshold of speech. The desire and potential for communication of specific ideas is there The conclusion may be drawn that early man about two million years ago must have been at least as socially advanced as the modern chimp, and has since evolved to the language-speaking species we are today.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Friday, 13 October 2006 02:11 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural/language/chimpanzee.html

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Friday, 13 October 2006 02:11 (nineteen years ago)

calling a radish "cry hurt food"

Chimps OTM.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 13 October 2006 02:17 (nineteen years ago)

35,000 years ago, exactly!

On a wednesday, if I'm not mistaken.

Most scientists hold the generally accepted theory that it was at around 4.45 in the afternoon, but some renegades have recently been pushing a radical new hypothesis, that it was actually nearer 4.20.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Friday, 13 October 2006 07:10 (nineteen years ago)

Also known as the Big Bong theory.

― It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Friday, 13 October 2006 10:56 (nineteen years ago)

By Professor Bergspinasie.

― C J (C J), Friday, 13 October 2006 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

lfamular, apparently the sign language was not actually learned by these chimps, they could guess what the right answer had to be as the researches gave away clues (subconsciously)

― Nathalie w huge cold/nobrain (stevie nixed), Friday, 13 October 2006 11:02 (nineteen years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/sexymollusk/2001bongolithcopy.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 13 October 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

Washoe learned 132 different words in her time with the Gardners

In AIM conversations, researchers could not distinguish between chimpanzees and teenagers.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Friday, 13 October 2006 12:14 (nineteen years ago)

Oh I'm sure they could. The chimps would have been more eloquent.

― C J (C J), Friday, 13 October 2006 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

if they were able to teach it to their offspring and invent new words and word combinations, it seems like they learned it

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

latebloomer, you crazy.

If we view the chimpanzee not as if he were our contemporary, but as if he were some ancestor of ours, the value of studying chimpanzee communication and use of language may be more fully seen.

Sort of. We're not descended from chimps -- chimps and humans SHARE an ancestor somewhere, that may or may not have had the same capacity for language.

― gbx (skowly), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

gbx OTM.

― Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

The "Chimps are our ancestors" way of thinking is very misleading and confounds proper understanding of evolution. Not only did we both split off from a common ancestor, but we're both here today at the same time, which means evolution has favored both of us. The idea that we're "more highly evolved" than chimps is a fallacy and a misunderstanding of what evolution really is.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, Nath, you're saying that the chimps didn't learn sign language, they learned how to read and understand people to the degree where they could categorize pictures of superficially different things into the same categories we would put them in?

LOL STOOPID CHIMPS!

― Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

I don't get why it bugs people so much to think that we might be similar to chimps. OH NOES WE NOT SPECIAL!!!

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

we are all individual snowflakes

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

Hurting, we live in a country where creationism is taught in science class, that may be a clue...

― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

AND I WOULD'VE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU MEDDLING CHIMPS

― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

I am so glad my life sciences teacher was a big hippie. Her entire nod to creationism was "Some people believe in creationism. If you would like to learn about that, go to church." WOOT.

― Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:36 (nineteen years ago)

"Chimps OTM"

― Why am I fucking your mouth when the sailors are on shore leave? (Fluffy Bear He, Friday, 13 October 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

You mean OTB - On The Bananas (obv.)

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

This:

If we view the chimpanzee not as if he were our contemporary, but as if he were some ancestor of ours, the value of studying chimpanzee communication and use of language may be more fully seen.

Doesn't require this:

Sort of. We're not descended from chimps -- chimps and humans SHARE an ancestor somewhere, that may or may not have had the same capacity for language.

Skim-reading pucko pedants.

― PUCKO (PUCKO), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

The point is that viewing chimps as if they were ancestors of ours is a stupid thing to do because they are just as evolved as we are, Mr. I-Am-Totally-Ineffectual-At-Countering-Pedantary.

― Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

I read your post twice dude, and it still makes no sense. (xpost)

― Why am I fucking your mouth when the sailors are on shore leave? (Fluffy Bear He, Friday, 13 October 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

I read your post twice dude, and it still makes no sense. (xpost)

― PUCKO (PUCKO), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

Hurting, we live in a country where creationism is taught in science class, that may be a clue...

right, because it should be taught in math class.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

It shouldn't be taught at all is the point.

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

What are you, Hitler?

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

raelly

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

It segues nicely into math:
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0883855402.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

You're. . .kidding right?

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

Why, you don't think people would like religion taught in math class?

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

(check out the index of that book. it's awesome!)

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

I'm confused. I can't tell if you're kidding or what. I don't think creationism should be taught at all, since there is no science or evidence to back it up, that's all I'm saying dude.

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

When I look around the world, I can't tell if it's a joke, either. Check out the index of that book.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

sample page:
ihttp://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/rolocoaster/777page.gif

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

I can't tell if you're kidding or what.

New in these parts, hombre?

― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:41 (nineteen years ago)

I saw an elementary school xtian math textbook. It was pretty big of a stretch but they still tried to throw the godhead into it. "God created long division, etc., and we should praise him for it."

― Abbott (Abbott), Friday, 13 October 2006 17:26 (nineteen years ago)

Are they trying to get children to hate God?

― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/nyff10406072138.widec.jpg

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

This guy was cool. His name actually included "Matrix" in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Joshua_Matrix

http://www.cafes.net/ditch/irmatrix.jpg

The original 666. After Crowley, of course.

― the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Friday, 13 October 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

most oblique bush thread evah

― literalisp (literalisp), Friday, 13 October 2006 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

six months pass...

how do you pronounce bonobo?

― and what, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

Imagine Craig David bigging up the lead singer of U2

― ledge, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

Actually it's more like a french person enthusing about a quality woodwind instrument.

― ledge, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

But chimps don't associate in criminal activities with pirates.

I can't speak for chimps, but BABOONS totally do: I saw some amazing footage a while back of a group of South African baboons hanging out in a supermarket parking lot and MUGGING PEOPLE! They would hide behind the cars, and then when a couple old ladies came by carrying groceries, one of them would saunter out to stop them in place, and then the other four would attack from behind, snatching up their bags and running off. No one was safe. The baboons had their racket so down that they could just start closing in on people, and the people would drop their bags and get moving. Particularly scary = creeping up from behind when someone's loading bags into a hatchback, and then four of them YOINK it all while the decoy backs the human off with hardcore tough-guy gestures.

(My question: do the people then go back in the supermarket to replace what just got stolen? What if the baboons are still waiting?)

― nabisco, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

Also some of them had stolen iPods and laptops and were totally downloading free stuff off of Soulseek.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

I don't believe that chimps are people, but I *do* believe they should be made to fight convicted criminals bare-knuckle on television.

― S-, Thursday, 3 May 2007 02:16 (nineteen years ago)

Define "people".

― Lostandfound, Thursday, 3 May 2007 04:03 (nineteen years ago)

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