Whistle bl0wing at work

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I am about to go to expose something that could easily get my boss fired. Basically, he fucked up and has been using company money to pay for personal shit. Thing is, this is really the least of his problems, he is sort of a trainwreck and probably would have been fired years ago if his supervisor/buddy didn't protect him. But i still feel pretty crappy about it, i don't hate the guy, but things are never going to get better while he's there. Also, I *might* be named to take his place, which makes it a sort of ambitious back-stabber move perhaps. Thoughts? Ever happen to you?

― jill zona (jillzzzz), Saturday, 11 November 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

if his supervisor/buddy didn't protect him

Are you sure this won't end in a coverup and you being fired?

― StanM (StanM), Saturday, 11 November 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

there are pretty strict rules about retaliation, but i have thought about that. more likely, the environment will become extremely hostile for me.

― jill zona (jillzzzz), Saturday, 11 November 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

maybe do it anonymously if possible

― gear (gear), Saturday, 11 November 2006 19:56 (nineteen years ago)

send evidence by fax, then bring the fax in and say, "this just came for you, sir" to his superior.

― Totally Different Guy Now (Dick Butkus), Saturday, 11 November 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

but without the "sir," perhaps.

― Totally Different Guy Now (Dick Butkus), Saturday, 11 November 2006 19:59 (nineteen years ago)

I would totally do this.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:03 (nineteen years ago)

staying anon wasn't really an option, alas. this is gonna be ugly.....

― jill zona (jillzzzz), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

I would do it, too. is his superior/buddy the ultimate boss? if not, his superiors probably know he's a trainwreck and possibly already want to get rid of him.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

You'll need to be 200% certain of a couple of things:

- you're not the only one who knows about this (other than your boss and his protector) - if you are, they (and everyone else in your department/the whole company) will immediately know it was you.

- nobody higher up knows about this (e.g. if the two are close personal friends of the CEO and he silently agrees, you're f*cked)

- your proof will have to be 100% inconvertible (that's the term for "can't be explained in any other way" right?)

- search legal help before you do anything: do unions do that where you live? (they do over here in Belgium)

― StanM (StanM), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

Don't let the hazy possibility that you "might" be named to replace this bozo lead you to believe you ought not blow the whistle on him. A trainwreck of a manager who spends company money on personal stuff is, and always will be, a trainwreck. Rid your company of his pernicious double-dealing and incompetance. You'll be happier if you do.

Just do it as anonymously as you possibly can, to limit the unwanted repercussions. And pay attention to StanM's advice, above.

― Aimless (Aimless), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:11 (nineteen years ago)

I was going to say, a Union is your sword and shield in this situation. Failing that get an employment lawyer or at least the number for one, in case things get ugly.

― Ed (dali), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

i've got "the goods" on him, otherwise i wouldn't go forward with this

xpost - this is a USA deal, and unions aren't involved (good & bad things about that)

― jill zona (jillzzzz), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

They might just think you're not a team player and what if they respond, knowingly, "How is this any business of yours?"

― Totally Different Guy Now (Dick Butkus), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:15 (nineteen years ago)

- your proof will have to be 100% inconvertible (that's the term for "can't be explained in any other way" right?)

incontrovertible?

― b-minus time traveler (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

yes, that's it, thanks! (I know I should have googled it, but it's hard to google if you don't know what the word you're looking for is)

― StanM (StanM), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:21 (nineteen years ago)

the root of that word is "controversy," which might make it a little easier to remember. I supposed it should really be incontroversible, but oddly that sounds like "reversible." Although "irreversible" is closer to the meaning of incontrovertible than non-convertible. Can I get a zzzz?

― Totally Different Guy Now (Dick Butkus), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

Unless whistle-blowing (in this instance) stood to benefit me directly - either in terms of income, or making my job appreciably easier/better - I'd leave well enough alone.

If it's a move that will simply make the company's bottom line better, fuck 'em.

― milo z (mlp), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

Unless whistle-blowing (in this instance) stood to benefit me directly - either in terms of income, or making my job appreciably easier/better - I'd leave well enough alone.

Are you angling to get voted Most Likely to Work on Capitol Hill?

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 11 November 2006 20:59 (nineteen years ago)

Blowing the whistle on human rights violations, understandable. Blowing the whistle 'cuz my boss uses his corporate AmEx for hookers and blow - why do I care?

― milo z (mlp), Saturday, 11 November 2006 21:55 (nineteen years ago)

(a) Because it increases the likelihood that your division will stagnate, fall apart, or fall into turmoil, negatively affecting your work environment, your job security, your chances for promotion/advancement, and your ability to have any modicum of respect for your superiors.

(b) Because it's a crime. (I'm curious where exactly you draw the line between one person's petty embezzling and Enron-level fraud.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

I'm with milo on this one. The guy is going to get caught sooner or later. Why stick your neck out?

― Super Cub (Debito), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

(a) - if true that would fall under the 'benefit to me' area, would it not? But in general, the malfeasance of one lower-lower-middle-management schmuck is hardly going to bring down IBM.

(b) - crime, shmime. When his coke habit threatens to destroy thousands of pensions, call me.

― milo z (mlp), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:09 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

I mean, the first of those is the important one -- you can't really pretend that a superior's chronic mismanagement and theft don't affect you at all. Chances are, they'll eventually fuck up your workplace to the point where you have to go off and look for another job, with years wasted in a dysfunctional workplace and your most recent reference coming from a trainwreck thief. Whereas a good boss is more likely to offer you good work experience and career advancement in a place that can actually command some respect.

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:10 (nineteen years ago)

Nabisco OTM (as usual) - also: if anyone ever finds out you knew about it and didn't act... ?

― StanM (StanM), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

staying anon wasn't really an option, alas. this is gonna be ugly.....

-- jill zona

Past tense, as in, you just did it? Congrats if so

― chrisco (chrisco), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

it's called "ethics" milo

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:26 (nineteen years ago)

P.S. also note that Jill's in a position where she might replace this boss, which suggests that she's not just some peon picking up a paycheck and going home and not caring either way how stuff goes -- this sounds like a serious career thing for her.

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:33 (nineteen years ago)

can you explain me ethics???

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:34 (nineteen years ago)

srsly, what's the upside in the biz world of being associated with a known thief/crackfiend and even being known for tolerating/covering up his embezzley shenanigans?

― It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:34 (nineteen years ago)

if this is a publicly owned company the shareholders will thank you and that is very important

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Saturday, 11 November 2006 22:35 (nineteen years ago)

it's called "ethics" milo
Right, I see no moral or ethical dilemma in stealing from some (if not most) employers, and I see no ethical dilemma at all in looking out for my own interests rather than looking like an "ambitious back-stabber" and most importantly having the situation become "very hostile" for me.

There's no upside there - maybe you get the guy canned, but then his buddy (still above your pay grade) hates you and the rest of the office treats you like crap.

My basic operating principle in regard to employment is that no one owes shit to the boss(es).

― milo z (mlp), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:13 (nineteen years ago)

Right, I see no moral or ethical dilemma in stealing from some (if not most) employers

You're kidding, right?

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:17 (nineteen years ago)

is the situation such that you talking to the boss directly and saying something like "look - it looks like something shady's going on here, and it doesnt seem good for anybody" would expose you to some risk? if not, going to the person first seems sorta legit, as a way to let them out themselves if theyd prefer. youre still in line for the promotion, and you havent had to feel like youre betraying anyone.

― Smegma Pi (plsmith), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:18 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - Not at all.

― milo z (mlp), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:22 (nineteen years ago)

i just sort of think going over someone's head should be reserved for the most serious stuff (not this, i think). that said, if you got a problem with what your boss is doing, you should do something about it.

― Smegma Pi (plsmith), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:24 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - Not at all.

I was going to ask, "So if I'm working for a non-profit, or a solar power company, or etc., etc., etc., it's OK for me to totally fleece them?", but you gave yourself an out there.

Still, you do realize that companies that take losses from theft, etc., generally find ways to pass that cost on to the consumer, right?

(It's like Hummers -- any impulse one might have to take a sledgehammer to a parked Hummer is moderated by the knowledge that the owner's insurance will pay up = you're in effect screwing everyone BUT the owner.)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:40 (nineteen years ago)

(Milo is however correct that, in just about any corporation, the odds of any whistle blower keeping their job for more than 6 months or so = approximately zero. The #1 principle of corporate culture everywhere is Don't Make Waves.)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:44 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but I'm glad that people do. I would.

(and yes, I have left jobs where I have not been comfortable with what is going on, and have made clear the reasons why)

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

milo is it ok to steal from your coworkers? is it ok to take their lunches?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

Now that I think about it: if someone's outright embezzling from a company, I think most workplaces would be grateful to the whistleblower. It's the fudgy stuff that's likely to get a backlash, because many if not most execs indulge in that kind of thing. (Remember the recent study that said MBAs are, of all degrees, the most likely to cheat? Quelle fucking surprise.)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Saturday, 11 November 2006 23:57 (nineteen years ago)

milo is it ok to steal from your coworkers? is it ok to take their lunches?
Of course not. Nor is it OK to slack off, to be a pain in the ass, to make any of your fellow workers' days longer or their jobs harder.

I'm very much a believer in showing up and working hard, being kind to customers and fellow employees. I just think you should be screwing the boss at the same time.

― milo z (mlp), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:02 (nineteen years ago)

I suspect that the person is doing slightly more than rounding up his travel expenses claim. Everyone's nicked a couple of stamps, made a few personal phone calls, etc, which is technically stealing off the company, but hardly worth copping a large amount of shit for reporting.

Thin line, I know, and a very indeterminate area over which you may or may not step, but if it is making you uneasy then, yes, report it.

xpost

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:04 (nineteen years ago)

Most likely, from your description, your worklife will be made very difficult and perhaps even unbearable if you do this. It happens all the time and is sometimes referred to as "constructive termination" (making the work situation so impossible that the person is forced to leave.) That's if you're not outright fired under some kind of excuse. It doesn't matter if they have "rules about retaliation" -- workplace retaliation happens all the time anyway. Be prepared for a long hard fight, and a possible job loss. You do, of course, have the possibility of a lawsuit if this happens, but make sure you collect evidence of what's going on so that you have a case if you lose your job.

That's U.S., anyway - if you're somewhere else maybe it's different?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:14 (nineteen years ago)

Remember the recent study that said MBAs are, of all degrees, the most likely to cheat? Quelle fucking surprise.)

http://www.thetartan.org/2006/10/2/news/business_cheat

The study found that 2% more MBA students cheat than engineering students, but "Yuppie assholes in academic dishonesty shocker" makes a better headline.

― 31g (31g), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:15 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry for the venom--I'm not saying you're larger point is wrong, I was just angry over the way that study got reported.

― 31g (31g), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:18 (nineteen years ago)

i have done this- it had the desired effect and i did get promoted (because the person was above me) but i had support from a fellow worker and we spent a long time agonising about it beforehand and we made completely sure there was no chance this could be made out to be a misunderstanding (or worse). i have to say, though, that my main reason for blowing the whistle was that i really couldn't stand the guy. if i had liked him i may have turned a blind eye.

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

I'm very much a believer in showing up and working hard, being kind to customers and fellow employees.I just think you should be screwing the boss at the same time.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/rolocoaster/cartoonist.gif

― Totally Different Guy Now (Dick Butkus), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:26 (nineteen years ago)

I'm inclined to think that jed_ is OTM with my main reason for blowing the whistle was that i really couldn't stand the guy. if i had liked him i may have turned a blind eye as a legitimisation of what you are doing, but part of me also thinks that knowing someone is a lying thieving scumbag would make me tend towards not liking them, hence not feel so bad for landing them in it.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:30 (nineteen years ago)

MILO OTM

but he's lunching himself with the stealing point. look, the fact that the guy is able to get away with theft, and has higher-up croneys looking out for him tells us that this is not a healthy workplace. the ethical obligation of ratting out her boss does not outweigh the imperative that she stays employed and not get blackballed in her chosen field of work.

― manute lol (sanskrit), Sunday, 12 November 2006 00:34 (nineteen years ago)

Let's have some details please. What's the crime? What's your proof?

― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 12 November 2006 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

look, the fact that the guy is able to get away with theft, and has higher-up croneys looking out for him tells us that this is not a healthy workplace.

nonsense. two bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch.

and I'm with Super Cub. How deep is it?

i'd blackmail the boss to let me in on it.

― researching ur life (grady), Sunday, 12 November 2006 01:35 (nineteen years ago)

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Whistle bl0wing at work - C or D?