Google sez there's no thread for Second Life

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So correct me if I'm wrong.

I've never actually been inside this virtual world, but I have to write about a lawsuit involving it so I've been reading up. It just so happens to be getting lots of attention in the media lately - virtual product roll-outs by big automakers, virtual corporate meetings, virtual beat reporters, virtual real estate investment schemes, etc.

Does anyone on ilx do it? How is it?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:17 (nineteen years ago)

all i know that it's FURRY CENTRAL and that's enough reason for normals like you and me to avoid

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:19 (nineteen years ago)

i love games has a thread

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:22 (nineteen years ago)

i think i imagined that

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:22 (nineteen years ago)

neat interview with the dude who wrote the book *play money* on fresh air today. that was the first i'd ever heard of the game. the book sounds good. dude hung out in the gamer sweat shops in china. pretty crazy stuff. all about how the guys with 50 computers in their closets who use robots to mine ore on-line are getting better and better at making artificial intelligence software to beat the game-maker cops when they come around trying to figure out who is a robot and who is real(!!). this country is a treat!

reuters has set up a bureau in second life-land, right?

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:24 (nineteen years ago)

the markets that have set up around speculating on second life's currency are pretty interesting. last i saw they were just implementing short-selling and were thinking about trading options and futures.

― webber (webber), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:26 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I heard that dude too! Good interview. I spent dinner breathlessly telling my wife all the stories about the gold mining schemes and the blue collar dude who bought the $750 Ultima Castle and the China sweatshops. It was funny because I was just getting myself psyched up to work on the piece and then the interview came on in the car.

Yes, Reuters has a full-time beat reporter in SL.

There was a business week article about the woman who is supposedly the most successful SL entrepreneur - she has something like $250,000 in virtual real estate assets. The economic side of it is fascinating, though it smells like a MASSIVE bubble waiting to expand and then pop.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:28 (nineteen years ago)

but how is inflation?

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:28 (nineteen years ago)

Does anyone know what the rough linden/dollar exchange rate is and/or where I can find good info on it without having to sign up for the game?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:29 (nineteen years ago)

email the reuters reporter, i'm sure they know

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:30 (nineteen years ago)

i bet it's pretty volatile, though

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:30 (nineteen years ago)

Hyperinflation seems like the inevitable eventual consequence of economic activity in an infinitely expandable universe. Meanwhile, a few smart people will probably figure out how to make a lot of money and a lot of other people will probably make very little or even lose money.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:31 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=4

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:31 (nineteen years ago)

Conversion Rate: 256.7 Linden Dollars per US Dollar (or equivalent)

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:31 (nineteen years ago)

http://cgi.ebay.com/30000-Lindens-Thousands-of-Second-Life-Linden-Dollars_W0QQitemZ260051108790QQihZ016QQcategoryZ4596QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

30000 lindens for $150

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:32 (nineteen years ago)

i think this economy will have to be service based, because that is the only scarcity in cyberspace

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:33 (nineteen years ago)

whether the service is from a human or a processor

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:33 (nineteen years ago)

oops, 30000 lindens for $135, sorry

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:34 (nineteen years ago)

here you can view long-term exchange rate graphs: http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Currency&file=charts

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:35 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah. Actually I just found this site:

http://sl-escorts.com/

Cybersex is one of the few things that I think might be a winning business proposition - but according to the site these women also use microphones. So you're basically just a phone sex operator with a graphic avatar.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:36 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Currency&file=charts&priceControl=HLC&dateRange=31104000&period=900&ImageOutput=2

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:36 (nineteen years ago)

that's one year of trading

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:37 (nineteen years ago)

so, surprisingly little change in dolar value given the huge rise in volume

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:38 (nineteen years ago)

I assume there's a lot of control exercised by Linden. That might work in the microeconomy of SL but it won't work as more and more competitor games get into this.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

those escorts are unbelievable. i read snow crash in middle school, and i thought the metaverse sounded pretty cool, but now that i have the internet, it just seems dumb.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

All of this is outside the scope of what I actually have to write about, I'm just curious about it.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

what might work in the microeconomy of sl? the inflation demonstrated by the graph?

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

an interesting part of that graph is the crash in volume during the last two weeks, even though the price seems stable when i zoom in.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:42 (nineteen years ago)

hmm, the crash doesn't show when i zoom in, either. maybe those graphs are fucked.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:43 (nineteen years ago)

what might work in the microeconomy of sl? the inflation demonstrated by the graph?

But I thought the graph showed the value of the dollar in Lindens to be "surprisingly stable" - I'm confused

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:44 (nineteen years ago)

dada realized: http://secondlife.reuters.com/

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

i realized that given how low the volume is at the beginning of the graph, you'd think the linden would appreciate in value as it become a more common currency. like, it started at 500,000 lindens per day (or week, i don't know), which isn't really enough to be noteworthy. it would be like if you and i had a two-person currency. it would be worth nothing. so either it was overvalued to begin with or there is a flaw in the market keeping it from being revalued as it becomes, y'know, valuable.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:48 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not an economist, so i would take that with a grain of salt. if i could view exchange data more than one year old, i would, but that website doesn't offer it.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:49 (nineteen years ago)

all this talking has me very tempted to open an account but i know it's a bad idea.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:50 (nineteen years ago)

realized that given how low the volume is at the beginning of the graph, you'd think the linden would appreciate in value as it become a more common currency. like, it started at 500,000 lindens per day (or week, i don't know), which isn't really enough to be noteworthy.

Right, but I assume this has something to do with Linden controlling the amount of currency in proportion to the amount of land and goods available. Which is what I meant by my "works on teh micro" comment. I'm not an economist either so I could be wrong.

Yeah, I thought about opening an account for "investigative purposes" myself, but it's a VERY bad idea knowing me.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:55 (nineteen years ago)

luckily for me, my computer can't handle it.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 04:57 (nineteen years ago)

The economic aspect of it is definitely the most interesting to me - I kind of wonder how many of its users are on there purely or primarily for some kind of business scheme (selling virtual clothing, developing virtual real estate, etc.). Virtual real estate is what the lawsuit I have to write about is about - what rights does a "property owner" actually have in a virtual world and all that. I'll tell more about it when I finish the piece. It's pretty interesting.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:00 (nineteen years ago)

i'm very interested in the piece and the case

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:01 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I thought I was going to make my fortune off Second Life but then my computer was way too slow for it. I was sitting around forever waiting for my furry avatar to render and never even got to visit the American Apparel island.

― Adrienne Begley (sparklecock), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:03 (nineteen years ago)

no wai: http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=77393&sort=PictureID+desc&Search=american+apparel

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:06 (nineteen years ago)

I think it would be cool if sweatshop players in China started a Chinese sweatshop island when their boss wasn't looking.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:09 (nineteen years ago)

The presence of big corporate players will bring an interesting dynamic to virtual commerce. My gut feeling is that any kind of investment in virtual property, even in the short-term/ride-the-wave/find-the-bigger-sucker sense, is pretty risky and volatile. Then again, Kara Homes in NJ just went bankrupt, so I guess buying pre-construction condos ain't exactly low-risk either sometimes.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:11 (nineteen years ago)

Also, if the game becomes overrun by commerce it may lose its appeal to the only players that would actually have an interest in buying anything.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:12 (nineteen years ago)

Much like the world, eh?

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:17 (nineteen years ago)

things will work out, i'm sure. just like the world.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:19 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, what's more likely is that competitors will come along. MySpace beat Friendster, and something will beat Second Life.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:22 (nineteen years ago)

I am astonished and embarrased that I've only heard about Second Life in literally the last few days (someone happened to mention it recently). How I've not heard of this before now amazes me, esp considering it seems like the kind of thing I could get into (except for the money/economy angle. Its why I also never got into WoW).

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:24 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, there's been a real groundswell of hype around it in the last few weeks. I only first heard about this suit a couple weeks ago, and before that I had never heard of it either - though my brother had showed me WoW. I honestly get miserably depressed when I see my brother playing WoW hours on end when we're both back at the folks' place, but I guess he could say the same for me and my various internet habits.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:28 (nineteen years ago)

One of the things I love about ILX though is that it's so wonderfully bare bones. Just black text on white screen with occasional images. I don't want the illusion of a "second life" here, I just want to talk about shit.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:29 (nineteen years ago)

(xxxpost) Depends how flexible the Second Life game engine is. A sufficient technological advancement could knock SL off its podium if it couldn't be adapted to accommodate it.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:31 (nineteen years ago)

true, very true. well, since you're abdicating control of ilx, i suggest you hop on it!

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:32 (nineteen years ago)

But that defeats my entire purpose in ridding myself of ILX: I have zero interest in building and/or contributing to the next cool internet hangout for furries and losers.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:36 (nineteen years ago)

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:38 (nineteen years ago)

I'll give you a money-making idea -- virtual insurance. If there's going to be a virtual real estate boom, there has to be some way to make people feel like they're not going to lose their investment if Linden Labs goes bankrupt or their servers get hacked.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:39 (nineteen years ago)

In Certain Circles, Two Is a Crowd

second life as real life research tool in proxemics ^^^

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 05:42 (nineteen years ago)

but how is inflation?

We know the exchange rate over time, and we know US inflation rates, so theoretically we should be able to use Relative Purchasing Power Parity to back out an implied inflation rate.

The spot rate on 21.11.05 was 260 and on 18.09.2006 it was 301.6.
According to here, the US inflation rate between those two dates was 2.68%. Using the formula to solve for Second Life's inflation gives 2.31%, which is actually lower than the US rate.

So short answer: not too bad*.

*There are an incredible amount of things wrong with PPP (including the fact that you can't transfer goods from reality to Second Life [you can however transfer your services]), and there is a pretty good chance I fucked up the calculations since it has been a while since I have done anything like this. Still, pretty interesting.

― webber (webber), Thursday, 16 November 2006 06:45 (nineteen years ago)

Google sez there's no thread for Second Life

So correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is the thread:

Second Life C/D

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 16 November 2006 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

I signed up. This shit sucks.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

I hate it when a thread goes this long and then you realize there's another one. Is there some way to consolidate threads rather than just killing this one and going back to the old one? If not I'm just going to stick to this one.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

Here's the threat to Second Life's economy. Wish we had Copybot in first life...

http://news.com.com/Second+Life+faces+threat+to+its+virtual+economy/2100-1043_3-6135699.html

― Treblekicker (treblekicker), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

I'm starting a pool on how long it will take for there to be underground Chinatown-style knockoff apparel shops.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

(re multiple threads: mods could always crosslink them and then lock the newer one. if it's a problem!)

― geoff (gcannon), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

Would it be annoying to just cut/paste this entire thread into the older thread?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

the old thread doesn't have very much discussion so i say just let it be

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think it's a problem

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

and in response the the ppp inflation numbers, i don't think that ppp applies here. "[PPP] is based on the law of one price, the idea that, in an efficient market, identical goods must have only one price." there aren't any goods in second life that are scarce.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

here is the ILG thread: General Second Life discussion thread

it kind of sucks too

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 16 November 2006 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

loflz @ that sl escorts site:

http://sl-escorts.com/images/large/AnnabelleNorthmead.jpg
I'll accomodate humanoid furries (i.e if you're vaguely human shaped), but I draw the line at non humanoid avatars - four legged animals in other words.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 16 November 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

General Second Life discussion thread

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Thursday, 16 November 2006 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

Can I move that we not combine this discussion with the ILG discussion? I'm not interested in SL as a game and I don't want to discuss it from a "gamer" perspective.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 22:09 (nineteen years ago)

Services are scarce in the sense that there is only so much of your time you can give up, and you can divide your time between providing real-world services and second life services. Also, if you have a choice to sell in-game items for Second Life currency or USD, PPP should arguably apply to a greater extent than it does in real life (because it is easier to transfer "goods" from Second Life to eBay than from Japan to America).

But I agree, it's not very realistic.

― webber (webber), Thursday, 16 November 2006 22:13 (nineteen years ago)

xpost to self, I mean I am interested in it as a game in the larger sense, I just don't want to discuss it from a within-the-game perspective.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 16 November 2006 22:23 (nineteen years ago)

Apparently Kurt Vonnegut did an interview on SL. The video is kind of ridiculous.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2140455044291565033&sourceid=searchfeed

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Friday, 17 November 2006 07:13 (nineteen years ago)

i will save that video for when i have weed

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Friday, 17 November 2006 07:24 (nineteen years ago)

The creepiest thing about it is the way the characters' lips don't move when they talk.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Friday, 17 November 2006 07:28 (nineteen years ago)

There was also a Suzanne Vega concert.

Also, I just found a thing online about how SL sex actually works - apparently you have to purchase what are called "pose balls" that allow your character to perform actions other than the basic walking action. Each pose/animation seems to cost around $1 U.S. (250 Lindens or so)

Honestly the more video I see of this game it looks fucking lame.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Friday, 17 November 2006 07:30 (nineteen years ago)

i have some friends who were involved with this from the beginning, and i remember going to the house of one of them and he would spend hours online building his properties up and "meeting" people. there would be these strange virtual film screenings and parties. it was just a bunch of bored-looking avatars standing around not "talking" to each other, listening to bad techno. seemed like a good way to experience the party scene without having to leave your own place. i'd never get involved in it, because i don't have the time or patience, but the guy got himself a pretty solid job out of it and moved back to the east coast.

― gear (gear), Friday, 17 November 2006 07:34 (nineteen years ago)

i've just been reading this piece from the observer, which was reprinted in "the week" magazine. all i can say is: brr. i find this kind of metaverse thing bizarre, freaky and disturbing: it feels like peering into the abyss. perhaps this has something to do with reading "my tiny life" a few years back; either way, the question i want to scream is "how the fuck do people have time to run another life? isn't this one enough?"

do they have computers in second life? (i hope not. that would be fucked up: logging in to a virtual world to use, er, a virtual computer.) if so, though, someone needs to set up second-life ILX.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 18 November 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

actually, no: someone needs to set up "third life" :)

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 18 November 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

I just got an email about this from a library listserv I'm on:

http://infoisland.org/drupal/kickbuttcatalogers

They want volunteer catalogers for their Second Life virtual libraries. WTF?

― molly d (mollyd), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

I "play". I'm not sure why.

― It's a hard world for little things... (papa november), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 01:28 (nineteen years ago)

SecondLife: Revolutionary Virtual Market or Ponzi Scheme?

― friday on the porch (lfam), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 02:57 (nineteen years ago)

That's such a good blog post it almost restores my faith in the possibility of real blog journalism.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 06:06 (nineteen years ago)

The idea of real money for pretend real estate (or whatever) makes me irrationally angry.

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 06:10 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I found myself getting really annoyed with the whole thing when I did my article.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 06:18 (nineteen years ago)

how did that turn out?

― friday on the porch (lfam), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 06:25 (nineteen years ago)

uhm, you all do know about gold-farming n' shit, right?

― kingfish moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 06:49 (nineteen years ago)

how did that turn out?

Not bad, I guess.

http://www.onpointnews.com/061128.asp

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 06:58 (nineteen years ago)

uhm, you all do know about gold-farming n' shit, right?

Yeah, but Ultima tries to stop that, whereas Second Life markets itself as a money-making opportunity.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 06:58 (nineteen years ago)

Apparently, South Korea was trying to push thru gold-farming-specific legislation, too

― kingfish moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 07:02 (nineteen years ago)

I got a new computer and gave this another try and I still can't believe anyone uses it besides furries and people who have had cybersex with Warren Ellis. WTF Sweden.

― A B C (sparklecock), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 07:08 (nineteen years ago)

Once you get past the idea that you can *blush* have sex (OOoooh!) with people on there, it's pretty fucking dull.

― It's a hard world for little things... (papa november), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 07:11 (nineteen years ago)

In a move that's sure to leave every other country scrambling to catch up

I wonder which nation will be the one to leave every other country scrambling to add their own lizard-headed ambassador.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 07:12 (nineteen years ago)

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