Psychoanalyzing the President

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Neat interview here at Buzzflash with the author of _Bush On the Couch_. I like it as it goes beyond any "bush dumb lol" quick-toss-off, but the doctor actually takes great pains to figure out what's going on in Dubya's head and where the guy's apparent lack of empathy comes from. (This is assuming you hold applied pyschoanalysis to be valid, I guess.)

There's a great bit not only on the dim view some folks take of any sort of analysis or introspection arising from the mid 19th Century "Self Reliance", but also on Bush's relationship w/ God, and how he uses God as a means to shut out his own father:

BuzzFlash: He did say to Bob Woodward, who had asked him about seeking the advice of his father, George Herbert Walker Bush, that he appeals to a higher authority.
Justin A. Frank, M.D.: Yes.
BuzzFlash: To a higher father, meaning God. Is part of his delusional state that he believes that, indeed, God is talking to him, and he is speaking for God, acting for God?
Justin A. Frank, M.D.: It’s hard to know. But I do think, from all the evidence, that is the case -- that he does feel bolstered by his attachment to God. He is both able to use God to defeat his father, because he really can’t stand his father, and at the same time, use God to bolster his world view. He has this amazing sense of connection. Whether he hears voices or talks to God, I have no idea. But very few things about this person would surprise me in this way.

It's worth a glance, at least.

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:12 (eighteen years ago)

no matter what new angle is approached on this topic each time out, it's pretty simple; he's a standard issue redneck.

i've met his kind hundreds of times over during my 20 year stint in north florida. he was always full of self righteousness and backhanded comments at the dinner table.

god was always spoken about as if he was in their bedroom closet dispensing everything to their family personally.

― PappaWheelie MMCMXL (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:24 (eighteen years ago)

Okay I'm not the world's foremost authority on the president or rednecks, but I can say with complete certainty that he's not a standard issue anything.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:26 (eighteen years ago)

my experience shows...

― PappaWheelie MMCMXL (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:28 (eighteen years ago)

i dunno; did most of those rednecks have oedipal complexes driving the majority of their adult lives?

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:29 (eighteen years ago)

more like standard-issue Oedipus complex.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:29 (eighteen years ago)

bush dumb lol

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:30 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1AKVGD-FU

― PappaWheelie MMCMXL (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:38 (eighteen years ago)

the interview itself might be good, but the introduction (especially calling Bush a "sociopath") is pretty preposterous.

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:54 (eighteen years ago)

The idea of Bush being a sociopath isn't preposterous to me at all.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:59 (eighteen years ago)

Hell the idea of practically ANY politician being a sociopath isn't preposterous.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 5 January 2007 00:59 (eighteen years ago)

A sociopath is someone (to grossly generalize) who exhibits external and surface empathy and amiability, but internally cannot actually empathize with the pain and suffering of others. In fact, a sociopath may take hidden pleasure in being able to cause emotional distress, suffering, and even death to others, while -- on a day to day basis -- appearing as Mr. Affability.

That, you might say, fits Bush to a "T."

I can see possibly the former but not the latter.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 5 January 2007 01:14 (eighteen years ago)

"it's pretty simple; he's a standard issue redneck. "

I don't think there are that many rednecks that were born with a grandfather that was a Senator from Connecticut, a father that ended up President and who get a degree from an Ivy League school. I could be wrong about Yale, it might be teaming with rednecks.

I will say it is some serious flim flam to sell that kind of background to a bunch of rednecks as just being one of the boys.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Friday, 5 January 2007 02:55 (eighteen years ago)

god was always spoken about as if he was in their bedroom closet dispensing everything to their family personally.

http://users.stratuswave.net/~nqueen/images/closet.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 January 2007 02:58 (eighteen years ago)

I don't really like grand psychological theories about the president (the word "delusions" in that quote is particularly irksome), especially when we can do pretty well just asking "what kind of guy is he." And on that front, I'm not sure we really need to decide between these "redneck" and "child of privilege" theories, do we? I mean, I get the sense that a lot of the guy's cocksure simplicity comes from playing the cut-up and the wildboy in his own family, and then cruising into places like Yale, where ... well, if he wasn't inclined or equipped to compete with people intellectually or in terms of sophstication, it'd be really easy and tempting to fall back on playing into the down-home fun-times good-old-boy role. Texas and oil seem to have really cemented that into him. So I guess my "what kind of guy is he" rundown would revolve around that: I think he copped out into that role out of laziness, dimness, or lack of discipline, and then over time wound up becoming a really scarily fervent believer in it. It's like he kept calling sour grapes on thinking and complexity and it just kept working for him.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 5 January 2007 03:23 (eighteen years ago)

I forget exactly where I read it, but there was an article that suggested that Dubya represented the spectacular failure of the Bush dynasty: Jeb was the (comparatively) moderate, articulate, affable guy who was supposed to take over the Herbert Walker mantle, but in their respective gov races in 94 Dubya pulled a surprise victory over Ann Richards (RIP) and Jeb just squeaked out his loss, so the family push was begrudingly put behind Dubya.

I'm with Nabisco in not normally going out for these sorts of theories, but with a past like that dude's gotta have some daddy issues. Remember HW breaking down in front of congress while talking about Jeb: "He never whined about his troubles!"

Subtext like crazy, methinks.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Friday, 5 January 2007 04:44 (eighteen years ago)

Like i said upthread, this is all predicated on whether you hold the applied psych. stuff to be valid or not.

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

redneck?!?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

Hoosteen, was it this Eleanor Clift column?

Bush and the Family Franchise

― Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

The "just another redneck" conclusion seems inconsequential to me - it's ALL about the daddy issues. His entire career arc has been an effort to simultaneously subvert his father's expectations and do him one better. Now that he's been re-elected and gotten Sadaam executed, he's "proven" that he's better than his big, bad daddy. On the other hand, in doing so he also now has no reason for living, serving in public office, etc. and is totally clueless, psychologically adrift.

(I've said this before on other threads; cribbed from Jodorowsky)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

"He tried to kill my daddy."

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

it's not inconsequential, it's completely oblivious to what "redneck" means and so is not only insulting (to rednecks) but effaces what's so malignant about the dude in the first place

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

That's the thing, you could write books about his oedipal thing(if'n there aren't plenty out already). I mean, the guy had to grow up in a pale simulacrum of his sport- & war-hero daddy. H.W. excelled at baseball at Andover and Yale, and a decorated naval aviator in the Pacific, whereas Jr was a cheerleader and a slack-ass air reservist who kinda split from duty for a year or two. Not to mention the traumatic family life, too.

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

James Coburn to thread

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

HIS MOM IS A REAL PIECE OF WORK TOO DUDEZ

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, exactly.

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:57 (eighteen years ago)

I always liked Bill Hicks' take on GB Sr. - "what kind of guy actually marries his mom?"

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

She was pretty when he married her! She just has that rapid-aging gene that Britney has too.

But apparently she's always been a real vindictive witch.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

this thread needs that family Xmas card photo

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

(the one where Dubya's smoking)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

But apparently she's always been a real vindictive witch

I loved how during the Reagan funeral all the ex-presidents and their wives were moving around chatting amicably (there was a weird shot of Bush 41 and Carter giggling together); then when Gerald and Betty Ford arrived, Barbara Bush turned around in her seat, nodded coldly to the Fords and continued talking to Colin Powell.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

Haha yeah the H.W. + Jeb crying moment definitely took the intra-family drama angle over the top -- there's no doubt that the Bad Anti-Dad Son has totally eclipsed the Good Dad's-Favorite Son and it is just not cool for the others. For a second it seemed geniunely plausible that H.W. would start sobbing "it should have been YOU, Jeb" right there on the podium.

One of the problems with "redneck," per Tracer's thing there, is that ... well, it's a little far from the Bush quality people are trying to describe with it. Is there really a word for the attitude Bush has chosen to strike? I mean it's got these elements of Texan and oilman and fratboy and so on -- it certainly doesn't fit neatly into more southern categories like good-old-boy, though there are certain similar dynamics. I don't think there's really a word to describe it, but I bet if we asked Mike Judge he could come up with one.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

here you go (xxpost) :

http://i11.tinypic.com/43wpi0x.jpg

― StanM (StanM), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:24 (eighteen years ago)

I love Marvin's pants and how Jeb's babyface makes him look like Bea Arthur in Mame.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:25 (eighteen years ago)

Hahaha that picture really is great in terms of figuring out future roles! I mean, look at Neil back there, you can just tell he's the one who's gonna get caught with Vietnamese prostitutes.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

Check out Dubya's bare-faced cigarette smoking.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

Also, clearly: Jeb is dad's great hope, standing right next to him and looking like a Serious and Proper Young Man; nobody gives a shit about Marvin; and that surly cocksure smug grinning kid with the cigarette is just biding his time with this family until he OWNS THEM ALL.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

Is Dorothy the one that died?

I'm assuming this was in the early seventies, when Bush was a rep.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

All four sons have their ties over their shoulders...is that some sort of code?

The thing about George W. and "redneck" is that he's tried to live the role of the Good Ol' Boy, but the only part of it that feels natural to him is the crudity and thuggishness of the true Redneck. But he clings to it as a rejection of Pop's Kennebunkportness.

― Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

note that Jeb's also got his arm around Dad

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

He is one of the George Bushes though. (or is that a common thing in the US, including the dad's first name like that?)

Also: a world at peace? This was before any of them went into politics then?

― StanM (StanM), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

uh its pretty common in most cultures for sons to be named after their fathers

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

No, I mean "from all the George Bushes" instead of "from all the Bushes" or "from the Bush family" ?

― StanM (StanM), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

I think he means that it says "from the George Bushes" rather than just "from the Bushes."

In present-day America most people would say "the Bushes" or "the Bush family." But this is an older picture of a conservative political family, so "the George Bushes" is period-appropriate. It's based on the same logic as wives calling themselves, you know, Mrs. George Bush.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:48 (eighteen years ago)

Ha, that was an obvious xpost. Umm yeah, it's not weird, it's just a little quaint/antique.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

a good ol' boy is not a redneck! a good ol' boy likes hunting but he always gets the right permits. a good ol' boy might even wear a braided belt and loafers and big aviator sunglasses. he will have a paunch and gray polyester "coach's shorts" and will like to barbecue and will get very serious when "The Lord" is mentioned and usually enjoys golf.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:55 (eighteen years ago)

Robin Bush is the deceased Bush daughter, and from that link, you can find some more psychoanalyzing:

In his book Bush on the Couch, Justin Frank argues that Robin's death and the way the family handled it had a strong impact on her elder brother's personal development. Despite Robin's short life, Frank believes that she had a major impact on the world through her older brother, George W. Bush, who followed in his father's footsteps and became President of the United States.

At the time she became ill, Robin was the future president's only sibling (although Jeb Bush was born before she died) and a favorite playmate. His parents never told him that she was sick, although he was asked to stop playing with her. Only after her death did they disclose to him her illness, which had lasted longer than doctors expected it to and had led the Bushes on a frantic quest back East to find a specialist who could treat her. These efforts kept them away from their son for long stretches of time, and he was not present when Robin died nor was he permitted to attend her burial.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

Thanks! (xxpost)

― StanM (StanM), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

I didn't realize there were so many of the George Bushes!

― Maria (Maria), Friday, 5 January 2007 19:01 (eighteen years ago)

a good ol' boy is not a redneck!

I agree! What I was trying to say is that W tried to be a good ol' boy, couldn't even manage that, and turned into a redneck instead.

― Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Friday, 5 January 2007 19:06 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, that's the thing with the sister; young Dubya had to spend his formative years in such an emotionally dysfunctional set-up. You had his dad being gone a lot, his mom being his mom, all coupled with this kinda conservative aristocratic lack of emotional communication going on. It ain't the kind of recipe for instilling empathy.

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 January 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

he will have a paunch and gray polyester "coach's shorts" and will like to barbecue and will get very serious when "The Lord" is mentioned and usually enjoys golf.

this is my dad, except for the part about the Lord.

Jeb Bush looks like Nick Drake.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 5 January 2007 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

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