Taking sides: New York vs Chicago (actually a serious question)

If you like to be part of an active social world full of streams of interesting people, and be out of the house and caught up in events all the time -- if you like being in bars and thrive on things getting a little hectic and everyone angling at some interesting thing they're looking to accomplish -- then New York has the edge.

If you like all those things, but also like the idea of having a big homey apartment where you and your close, steady friends hang out on the back deck and drink beer while your dog runs around in the patch of yard below -- if you like all the advantages of a big city but don't feel like going out all the time, and want to maybe be able to afford to buy a nice apartment someday and take it easy a little -- then Chicago is better.

(Neither of those are meant to suggests that you can't find a nice laid-back life in New York, or that you can't live a hectic action-packed life in Chicago -- just that the characters of the cities seem to trend that way.)

culturally, New York is more international, Chicago more all-American. but both are very diverse.

fwiw, Zagat lists twice as many NYC restaurants as Chicago metro area restaurants (and Chicago metro population > NYC population)

That's sort of interesting because Chicago is supposed to be known for all it's great and wonderful food.

Anyway, I think nabisco and gabbneb are both quite right. I like Chicago better, but I totally would.

That's sort of interesting because Chicago is supposed to be known for all it's great and wonderful food.

I don't see how the statistic changes that. Its best restaurants are on par with New York's. But there are fewer of them.

xpost - well, no, I mean that Chicago is known for having a lot of great and wonderful food, not just having some restaurants that are also great and wonderful. I'm not sure what a restaurant has to do to get into Zagats (that's probably very Chicago-y of me to be so unfamiliar with it) but if it's more for fancy places, then I could see Chicago having fewer fancy places than NY. If it's just about quality food of any level of fancy, I could still see NY having more, but maybe not that much more.

yeah, yeah, i know, but it was that or not get round to it during my own working week. i think i'll manage to revive it on monday if dies an early death.

thanks for the responses, everyone, i need to sleep now but will be back to this tomorrow.

But truth be told, both are too goddamned cold.

July high-low
New York - 30-20
Chicago - 29-17
London - 22.3-13.7

TRANSPORTATION: The New York subway network is tightly spaced and allows you to zip pretty quickly to anywhere you might be headed; you will probably not need, want, or even be able to have a car. The Chicago train network will also get you to enough places that you won't need a car, though you might have to do a weird transfer or catch a bus; on the other hand, it's easy and inexpensive if you do want a car, and driving around is pleasant and easy.

SOCIALLY: New Yorkers are out and about and open to strangers, and it's not hard to meet an endless string of interesting and neurotic people; you could book every week full of having a drink with so-and-so and going to an event with so-and-so. Chicagoans tend to be more "normal" and average and Midwestern-style friendly, and a little less into strangers. They spend more time hanging out and having parties in one another's apartments, as opposed to at bars or events. New Yorkers tend toward large, active social circles where you may actually hate half the people in them. Chicagoans tend toward a small circle of good buddies, and there's more of a sense of "what kind of fun could we create right now" than "let's go out to a social / cultural event." (An apt metaphor here might be that New York = going out to bars and doing cocaine, while Chicago = hanging around your friend's place smoking weed.)

STREETS: In most neighborhoods of New York (and anywhere in Manhattan), you will have stores, markets, restaurants, and bars all up and down your street. Buildings are tall and tight; streets are crowded and not exactly clean. In Chicago neighborhoods, stores are more likely to be on the main streets and avenues (say, every fourth block), while the area between is tree-lined and all-residential. (This is true for parts of Brooklyn, too, but I'm generalizing.) That difference of a couple blocks makes a pretty big difference in how your place feels -- perched above the city or off down your pleasant lane.

HOUSING: In just about any neighborhood of Chicago (apart from maybe the central downtown area), two people with entry-level salaries can afford a BIG charming two- or even three-bedroom apartment, with windows and trees outside and a deck in the back -- the kind of place nice enough that you start making it feel like a house. In New York, you don't even bother thinking about living in certain areas, and you lower your standards toward places that are either small or falling apart, and rent eats up a big chunk of whatever money you bring in -- and you're more likely to feel like your apartment is just a home base where you happen to sleep between going out and doing stuff. In the long term, saving up for a condo or apartment in Chicago is feasible; in New York, you're gonna need an inheritance or a trust fund or something. (Plus if the REALLY long term is a consideration, Chicago has suburbs you can very easily move to and drive right into the city; New York has families who wind up moving to Pennsylvania and sending some breadwinner commuting across two states.)

STUFF GOING ON: Oops, people have kinda covered this. Basically Chicago gives you access to most anything you'd want to do -- shows, art, lots of theater, dancing, restaurants, films, etc. You will not miss anything. New York just ups the ante by offering you all of those things, like, every second, to the point where you could go out for the night and flit between six different things, any one of which would have been a good full night in Chicago.

WEATHER: Yes, Chicago winters are colder and snowier. On the plus side, this contributes to Chicago springs being way more joyous and awesome. Plus Chicago has Midwestern rain, which goes hard for ten minutes and stops, as opposed to NYC or London rain, which just goes on for a week. Cold-wise: you get used to it. I grew up in a town nicknamed "Sun City" and never felt that wounded by Chicago cold -- you buy a big-ass jacket and soldier through.

(All of which is me driving at the same point as before: if you feel like going out and being Action Toby and getting constant simulation and taking over the world, then NYC; if you feel like having a nice home and and pets and barbequeing for your friends and being ever so slightly more like Domestic Adult Toby, then Chicago.)

still, i have always been curious about chicago -- so i look forward to reading the comparisons!

well never you mind me

E.g., the big weird thing about describing what Chicago is "like" is that we're all basically talking about the north side right now. (And if Toby's question here has anything whatsoever to do with the University of Chicago, that north/south issue would become way more relevant.) NYC only does this kind of thing with the Bronx -- you know, young professionals aware of some huge section of the city where minorities live, but never finding any reason to go there or think about it much at all, as if it's some whole other city.

the metropolitan region? I live in queens which is generally considered the most diverse county in america.

As far as restaurants go, I think Chicago has the edge on cheap authentic ethnic foods, but I probably only think so because I have access to my parents car in Chicago so I can drive to all the ethnic neighborhoods, but in NYC I'm not trying to sit on the subway for an hour to get to Flushing, Hunts Point, Elmhurst, wherever. But in Chicago, I really want to go to Alinea and Schwa.

Oh, but I do get bored at night in Chicago...

I can't take sides, except in that I live in Chicago. Ever since I can remember I have had a thing for NYC, but the NYC I am in love with is the East Village of the mid-80's, at least as I came to comprehend it as a youngster. When I visited for the first time in the late 90's I realized that it was a lot less gritty and (I hate to say it) edgy than I had hoped; even so, I loved it wholeheartedly and still do.

I moved to Chicago looking for a easier to manage replacement for NYC, and while I know I can never find that, I like Chicago a lot--it is much more affordable and manageable, and it feels like home now. Still, there is no substitute for NYC.

Well, I think because no one actually for real thinks that Chicago is overall a "better" city than NY. I mean, I love Chicago and all, but...

and speaking of which, jess, there are parts of the outer boroughs that recreate aspects of the e. village in the 80s, but it's definitely a different experience for many reasons.

xpost....

Chicago feels like I imagine Brooklyn or Queens to feel. Manhattan feels like its own crazy place totally different from Chicago, like downtown Chicago time twenty plus residents and businesses and more all-encompassing train systems and all of that. They just feel totally different to me.

I'll be in NY in March and hope to check out the non-Manhattan areas a bit more. I'll see how they feel compared to Chicago, which I got to know much better after having been to NY.

Bug what do I know, I live in remote-ass Washington right now. I just love and am fascinated by cities.

Well, I think because no one actually for real thinks that Chicago is overall a "better" city than NY. I mean, I love Chicago and all, but...

i'm not sure how you can simultaneously make this statement and place "better" in scare quotes. what point, exactly, are you trying to get across?

McCormick?

Airport fares are fixed, so you can run up a lot more travelling less distance in town.

woah, deej, don't go too far...

am i allowed to ask if nabisco was a medildo? pweety pweaze?

here are some indicative show prices

http://www.boweryballroom.com/calendar/calendar_200702.html
http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=nyc&query=schedule&venue=southpaw1
http://www.bowerypresents.com/
http://cake-shop.com/calendar/calendar.php?year=2007&month=01
http://www.mercuryloungenyc.com/calendar/calendar_200702.html
http://www.unionhallny.com/events/index.php

And yeah, gabbneb, Dave Matthew Band shows do generally cost more than $20.

when i lived in chicago, i dated a guy that lived down there, and he always insisted on picking me up in his car at my place in lakeview, rather than me taking transport down there to hang out-- he claimed it 'wasn't safe'. i'm not sure whether that's true, he is terribly old fashioned (and/or didn't know my thuggish nature), or was actually married. hmm.

So but umm yeah, it's not exactly freaky no-man's land, or anything, but I wouldn't exactly make a point of wandering around the edges of Hyde Park during the late hours, or anything. As for the bus on 55th, desolate and exposed as it feels, I don't think the highway overpass wait is too dangerous, and the walk from 55th down into cozy campus is very short (especially now that they've put that big busy bar/restaurant thing by the fitness center).

Stingy, if your girlfriend is leaning toward U of C and you wind up living in the south loop, you'll probably have a pretty full Chicago experience, so I can heartily recommend the city.

I favor the Metra, personally. It's fast and generally mostly empty on account of going against the flow of most commuters.

(P.S. you have no idea how much I freaked out earlier this year when I opened up the Times and AS / 4n!ta S4m3n was staring back out at me.)

(P.P.S. your status as an ILXor may make you one of like two people who will know what I mean if I point out the following: EG / 3ll3n G!bs0n = Lorelei Gilmore.)

I never posted to say that we ended up deciding to come to chicago for a year and then move to Boston.