Too Much CHOICE

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Going to Sainsbury's should NOT be so much hassle. I have on my list the simplest of items: "Washing powder, shower gel, washing up liquid" and for each one (and numerous others) am faced with a wall of goddamn products to choose from.

I don't know, and nor do i care, about the differences b/w the varying scented, freshness-types and whole host of other imperceptible differences but nonetheless i spend five minutes pondering which is most suitable for me.

All I want is something to get the shit off my clothes/body/plates. I long for simpler times but have never experiecned them. What were they like?

uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

You made your own soap. From ashes and bones.

The Long Grey And Overcast Tea Time Of The Soul (kate), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

Bones luxury etc.

You care enough to start a thread, embrace the variety.

Matt (Matt), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

i live in a small town and don't drive so I'm forced to shop at the local tiny convenience store, which makes choices like washing up powder and soaps very limited. thankfully.

unfortunately it also means you get fuck all choice in the variety of food.

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

At the risk of sounding "In soviet russia, washing powder chooses you..."

I remember shopping in Vaci Utca, Budapest, prior to the 'fall of communism' there, and in a white goods shop, they had one type of washing machine. It wasn't too old fashioned looking, it was brand new, it was the only model on sale. Which led me to think: Do you actually need to choose? There's a machine, put yr clothes in it, get clean ones out! That's it. Fact is, people with multifunction/program machines only use two of the programmes on it, if that!

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:07 (eighteen years ago)

we use these weird plastic ball things instead of washing powder. supposedly you get more out of them and they're more ethically sound (despite being made of plastic). don't ask me guv.

vita susicivus (blueski), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:09 (eighteen years ago)

x-post re: washing machines. yes! that's another thing i spend too much time on. choosing the washing machine cycle. but i spend too much time just hypnotised by the clothes spinning round and round. so i guess should not blame it all on hotpoint.

uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:14 (eighteen years ago)

You made your own soap. From ashes and bones.

Speaking abuot Bones, have you seen that show, Kate? It's not exactly CSI, but I rrreally like it as it has ANGEL in it.

I just grab the same brand my parents bought when they still lived in Belgium.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

You should probably have a heart to heart with the jaywalking professor. He is equally confused by these modern times.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

I don't find the washing powder/washing-up liquid thing at all difficult - I'll either get the cheapest on offer or, if feeling flush, the most ecologically sound (usually ecover).

different brands of shampoo, though...

ampersand, spades, semicolon (cis), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:19 (eighteen years ago)

There was something in one of the Sunday magazines about the baffling array of choice and weird flavour combinations for foods in order to satisfy every possiblke niche market, but I can't really remember what the article concluded about it all.

If you are faced with too much choice, just buy the supermarket own brand for the washing powder/shower gel/washing up liquid. It's good enough.

When I was a poor hard-up student many years ago I had a summer holiday job working in a factory which bottled bleach and washing up liquid. They had three production lines - the first had the top grade liquid soap which went into the top-of-the-range product (I can't recall now what it was, but I think it was Fairy Liquid); the second production line bottled the stuff for the supermarket own-brands, and was the same for Tesco and Sainsbury's, and was only a marginally watered down version of the good stuff; the third production line was a very watered-down version of the liquid soap, for use in all the budget brands.

Supermarket own brands are fine, really.

C J (C J), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

Though, to be honest, I get completely flummoxed by too much choice in supermarkets. For cleaning products, I try to grab Ecover (except for the laundry soap, which never seems to dissolve at the laundrette).

Oh god, I should get my washing machine fixed. I have been here a year now.

No, Nath, I've not seen Bones due to the whole not having a telly thing. I don't really like Angel (he moods! he broods! he moods and broods!) anyway so I'm not bothered.

The Long Grey And Overcast Tea Time Of The Soul (kate), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:39 (eighteen years ago)

If you just call it a detergent it saves a lot of time.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:46 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, but detergent also = washing up liquid, and I do buy Ecover for that.

The Long Grey And Overcast Tea Time Of The Soul (kate), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

"Washing up liquid" - now that is too long. It's like calling curtains "window covering sheets."

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:51 (eighteen years ago)

Well, how do you differentiate detergent you use for your dishes from detergent you use for your clothes, then?

The Long Grey And Overcast Tea Time Of The Soul (kate), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

Ecover, it's actually better than the squezy etc!

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost

Tesco online shortens Washing Up Liquid to WUL (at least for the Fairy products; It took me 10 minutes to work out what the hell it stood for (mind you,I was having a particularly dense Sunday afternooon)

Guilty Boksen (Bro_Danielson), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

dish soap?

RJG (RJG), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:59 (eighteen years ago)

"You're soaking in it!"

The Long Grey And Overcast Tea Time Of The Soul (kate), Monday, 15 January 2007 14:59 (eighteen years ago)

it's easy to train yourself to not notice any of the shit ones you don't want. same as training yourself to filter out ads; presence of nescafe etc.

emsk ( emsk), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:00 (eighteen years ago)

I think I've always said "detergent" and "laundry detergent" but I have not had much trouble telling the two apart, TBH.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:00 (eighteen years ago)

"Well, how do you differentiate detergent you use for your dishes from detergent you use for your clothes, then?"

Hah! We once called a repairman cause the dishwasher acted funny. Apparently we were using stuff that was meant for washing clothes. hahaha

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:04 (eighteen years ago)

Laundry, dish.
Dish soap. We are cretins, i know, and we abuse the language, but! Dish soap is so much easier than washing up soap?
Laundry "soap" is called detergent. Laundry detergent.
This is very funny, because now i can see that the U.S. uses very belligerent words even when dealing with dirty clothes!
"Detergent" is horrible!
I'm going to call soap soap - from now on until my dying day!
I don't think I can wrap my brain around washing up liquid before the winding sheet embraces me.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

Did it keep trying to spin the plates?

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

Ecover is shite. Actually think i read a copy of Which? which demonstrated precisely how shite it is.

and x-post, if i don't KNOW which one I want so can't train myself to eliminate all the rest from view.

uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

I start by ruling out the antibacterial ones, which in Our Modern World eliminates about half the choices!

Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

xpost well, the difference in ability seemed markedly better than the stuff we had been using up till then (washing up liquid and Clothes Liquid specifically)

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

Someone did an experiment a while back with JAM, where they set up 2 jam stalls in comparable conditions, one selling 6 types of jam and one selling 24, each offering a free taste first (nb: not a free taste of every kind of jam). Anyway the stall with more different jams got more people stopping to try, but was 3 times worse at converting trial to purchase. So there.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

Ecover is shite. Actually think i read a copy of Which? which demonstrated precisely how shite it is.

when was that? it - the washing powder, at least - definitely used to be: my mum bought some about ten or so years ago and it destroyed the washing machine. oops. i've used it since i was both responsible for buying my own washing powder and had enough money to buy ecover (there was a while where i lived on #15 a week, hard times...) and it's lovely - everything's clean and doesn't stink of revolting chemicals. the washing up liquid is great too; i am mighty suspicious when i go round people's houses and they use the fuck-you-all-i-don't-care-if-you're-poisoned type and there are often icky greasy/lumpy marks on their glasses and stuff. doesn't happen in our house.

emsk ( emsk), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:25 (eighteen years ago)

But detergent is different from soap! I will wash my cast-iron skillet with soap, for instance, but not with detergent, which is too harsh and eats away at its seasoning. I agree that the word itself is, when held in the hand and studied, very hostile and ugly!

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

what's wrong with ecover?

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

i used to think it wasn't very good at lathering, but it's ok.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

nothing is wrong with ecover, or not any more anyway.

emsk ( emsk), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:41 (eighteen years ago)

The washing powder does clag up the dispenser drawer a bit, but they have liquids and tablets and stuff now. I think it's great stuff. I just wish stupid Irish supermarkets would carry it instead of walls and walls of shiny Unilever crap. Sometimes I just want to shout "it's all the same stuff, you know!" at people.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:43 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.jojomamanbebe.co.uk/prod_images/mainproduct/a6262.jpg

RJG (RJG), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

And Ecover isn't?

xpost

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

yes, Balls of Eco are what i've got.

vita susicivus (blueski), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:46 (eighteen years ago)

Language!

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

And Ecover isn't?

nope, it doesn't fuck up and poison everything everywhere it goes, unlike the rest.

emsk ( emsk), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

Perhaps I'm just extra smelly, but one of the ecover products hasn't been cleaning clothes as well recently :( Campbell was banging on about fabric conditioner being a myth but I am going to continue using it! I currently have this stuff:

http://ecotopia.co.uk/5l-biod-fabric-conditioner.ir?cName=bulk-buying-all-bulk-refill-products

not in bulk, obv... cos it was 10p cheaper or so than ecover IIRC. Not so hot though. And I currently have "Ariel Liquitabs" as Sains didn't have any ecover liquid when I was in need, and the tablets are just a non-starter. Although if they DO work in anyones machine, I have TWO packs of the stuff going free...

Bhumibol Adulyadej (Lucretia My Reflection), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

i dunno about fabric conditioner, i really can't be arsed with it. isn't it just a big con? i did buy some eco-something washing liquid (not washing up liquid, for washing clothes) in a big bottle once and it was bizarre, ineffective, gloopy and gelatinous (hopefully not literally). it just sat there in the drawer like a big mound of jelly. i think i tried opening the drawer slightly when the machine was trying to swoosh it into the wash and encouraging it on its way with the back end of a chopstick, but that didn't work either. ecover seem to have it sussed though. we only wash at 40 degrees too and it's fine...

emsk ( emsk), Monday, 15 January 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

i am convinced my clothes come out v harsh w/o fabric conditioner - I could probably bully myself out of using it, given that my clothes aren't coming out well whatever I do recently - the washing machine itself aint grebt. I only wash at 40 too.

Bhumibol Adulyadej (Lucretia My Reflection), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

the Which? was from about six months ago. i can't remember all the details but it tested how many plates could be was with a certain amount of the liquid and a bottle of ecover stretched to about five. i just use the second cheapest own brand but even then i've gotta pick between fucking yellow, green, blue silver surfer, mint sprig, daytime joy and shitload of other ridiculous types of the stuff.

uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

:( maybe the machine then... are there bits of washing machines that get bunged up? i guess there must be.

xpost ??? that's total bollocks, and i will go round to their office and prove it if they will let me.

emsk ( emsk), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

you will fight them. and that is no lie.

uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

I had a friend who used to spend alternate spells of 18 months in the UK and China, and whenever he came back to the UK he would find himself completely flummoxed and ultimately rather disgusted by (what he saw as) the unnecessary choices available.

Didn't stop him from being a very choosy drinker, mind.

Tim (Tim), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

(er I meant to say, he claimed to find the transition in the other direction much less of a problem.)

Tim (Tim), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:30 (eighteen years ago)

I use Arm&Hammer unscented laundry detergent or Ecover if the store is out of A&H, and Ecover dish soap, and still have to wear rubber gloves because of contact dermatitis. The low suds thing is true—I think Ecover is less concentrated, which is a lame way to boost your profits, preying on all of us flower children like that, for shame. I wonder if just washing the dishes with Dr. Bronner's soap would work. Soap doesn't bother my hands, just detergent.
Shampoo—I use Nature's Gate Hemp because I know the hemp farmers irritate the war-on-drugs types. I always buy no-cruelty body products, too, because I love bunnies.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

OKay, so not as shite as I recalled

Washing-up liquid review
Ecover Lemon and Aloe Vera

For top environmental credentials, Ecover is hard to beat and is the only washing up liquid in our test that makes such claims.

It's also one of the milder liquids.

It's made from only renewable raw materials, biodegradability far exceeds legislative requirements and it uses natural colours and fragrances.

Most washing up liquids are based on non-renewable petrochemical ingredients, which means they take longer to biodegrade.

Admittedly, Ecover only puts in an average dishwashing performance, but will do the job and leave you with a clean conscience.

It also contains milder ingredients, so it should be kinder to skin than most others on test.

Pros: More environmentally friendly than other liquids, kinder to skin.

Cons: Average on all types of food stains.


Ecover Lemon and Aloe Vera
Score 52
Features
Specification
Size (ml) 500
Performance
Plates cleaned 1275

Ratings
Performance
Foam duration: Acceptable

Fat removal: Acceptable

Value for money: Acceptable
Acceptable
Cleaning power: Acceptable

uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Monday, 15 January 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

Should NOT have spent this much of my day thinking about washing up liquid.

uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Monday, 15 January 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

Dr. Bronners Peppermint Soap is good for all cleaning purposes. Except teeth cleaning.
Believe me. Nobody else should suffer the horror of peppermint soap AS toothpaste.
I was on a "clean living" kick, and refused to use any other product. I wasn't bathing much, either.
Dr. Bronners is not so good for toothpaste. I gagged for several minutes.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 15 January 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

Fat removal: Acceptable

Lose pounds while you clean house!

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 15 January 2007 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

Choice does not usually bother me in supermarkets because I have very simple criteria for choosing:

1. buy the cheapest thing (this usually works)
2. if there is more than one cheapest thing, and no apparent functional difference between them, buy the one with the prettiest packaging
3. if that doesn't work, give yourself thirty seconds to choose and then pick one randomly and walk away

However, yesterday I was confused for about two minutes by various kinds of frozen peas. They had different names but the same picture (of peas!) on every package!

Maria (Maria), Monday, 15 January 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

i suggest choosing by color. i'm partial to clear or, um, pink for household products, particularly dish soap and household cleaners. also, i always buy the same thing once it runs out. you say brand loyalty, i say utter laziness.

anhellica (angelurker), Monday, 15 January 2007 22:04 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I usually just buy the same thing every time.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Monday, 15 January 2007 22:08 (eighteen years ago)

I don't feel confused by choices in supermarkets but then I do like to take the time to read labels, make sure stuff has decent ingredients/isnt made out of 3rd world children/etc

Often, supermarket own-brand is still made by the same company as big-brand stuff. They just package it more plainly. I know some of the bread manufactuers do this. So you're paying an extra $1 or more for a brand name. Crazy.

But in some cases the brand does make a diff: for eg I'll only buy Italian made tomatoes in cans because (and believe me I've done experiemnts) the Aus canned tomatoes are terrible. More water, paler tomato flesh, less flavour.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 01:38 (eighteen years ago)

I buy organic food almost always, unless there's no alternative. I worked in garden centers that sold chemical fertilizers for so long, I became very well-informed. What about a New Jersey-size dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico do people not understand?
Not that I don't use small amounts of chemical fertilizer myself, as a landscaper. Mostly time-released Osmacote in containers. But the amounts used by commercial growers are so huge, there's no way the plants can take it all up. It finds its way to the water.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 03:06 (eighteen years ago)

I wish there was more I could do with my supermarket shop to reduce my eco footprint. Local meats, for example. Local veg I can do, as well as some other local(ish) things like olive oil, tea, coffee and nuts and things.

But there's always something that has to come from OS or places unknown.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 03:10 (eighteen years ago)

All we can do is try. I buy the free-range chicken, but if there isn't any and I'm jonesing really badly for bird I will grab the "all natural" which is totally meaningless. Free-range is pretty meaningless, too. It's just a bigger cage.
I wish we could get rabbit. I love rabbit. Is it technically a red meat?

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 03:15 (eighteen years ago)

Rabbit used to be easy to buy here! Not sure about these days tho. I've had wild rabbit. Tasted like gamey stringy chicken.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 03:41 (eighteen years ago)

Mmmm!

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 04:42 (eighteen years ago)


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