Learning the Violin

Incidentally, I was rubbing the rosin onto the bow for about half an hour last night, and it still didn't make a "clear tone" when I moved it across the strings. Is there a trick/technique to it?

my mom used to play the violin in the national youth orchestra!

I remember doing violin when I was young. The news was full of stories about "cannabis Resin" on the streets, and I thought that's what "Rosin" was made of. Ah yout.

Ah! I want to learn how to play the violin. Do you have a musical background at all, JB - i.e. have you played other instruments before - or are you starting from scratch wtih music theory and all?

I seem to remember it being an angle and pressure thing to get a clear tone out of the strings, but it has been nearly 30 years since I picked up a violin. (eep!)

I play the guitar reasonably well, and I know a bit of music theory (I know what a chord is, I know some scales, I've get a reasonable ear for pitch) although I can't read music. I'm hoping the knowledge will give me a bit of a head start, although the lack of frets make me fear. It can't be as hard as all that, surely? I mean, I've heard some pretty good 8 year olds play, and if an 8 years old can do it them I'm pretty sure I can.

Good luck Johnny B!

It's all about how you hold the bow and control it I think. I used to learn the viola when I was at school. Haven't touched it for about 4 years. It currently sits underneath my desk. Maybe I should get it out and see how out of tune it is.

I've just started playing the piano again, after about 8 years without touching the thing. It's scary how much I've forgotten (eg having to count the ledger lines for a note, when I used to be able to work out the interval straight away)

It's very very hard to get a good clear, nice tone from a violin. It just takes awhile.

I wish I'd kept up my sight reading - but then again, I was never particularly good at it. And I kind of gave up on sheet music when I switched to the guitar and discovered tab.

I wonder if there is such a thing as violin tab!

get a scale:

C D E F G A B C

give each degree of the scale a number:

C = 1, D = 2, E = 3

make up some number/scale patterns:

123 234 345 456 567 678

CDE DEF EFG FGA GAB ABC

practice these over a steady pulse. practice on one string and crossing over different strings, practice with varying bowing techniques.

this is a very basic interpretation of how indian classical music is contructed / improvised. works on any instrument. on stringed instruments when you get going with very complicated patterns over many octaves i.e

13245 24356 35467

you'll be jumping all over the place which is great for ingraining where a scale is into your brain as well as giving your hands a decent work out.

also listen to how different tensions/posture/emotions can change the tone.

i think going to "seisuns" - sessions - where everyone is fiddling away - can be a good way to learn. Just because everyone acknowledges the key they are playing in, and it all happens in the same key? Especially if you don't read music.
I have seen many people really grow into the fiddle/violin through playing at sessions - and many practiced players like to join because it's nice for them too.
I played the violin many years ago - my neighbors fiance bought her a violin for Christmas, and when I picked it up and tried to play I basically was calling cats in heat to the apartment!
It's not an easy instrument.
I reccomend the fiddling stuff before the orchestra stuff, if you are not going to read music.
(Plus you can drink beer. )

That's why I heave the fear. At least with the guitar a note is a note, more or less. With the violin you need hours of practise to even make a sound that resembles a note, let alone playing the RIGHT note.

That scale jumping exercise you've mentioned looks ace. Once I sort my rosin out, I may well give that a go, cheers.

I can't even visualise what violin tab would look like. Maybe give distance in mm on where to put your finger?

Oh, and cheers jill, I'll do my bestest. I hope I don't give this up like so many get rich quick schemes.

nah man, that violin = diff to get a nice sound out of is just some people (kids especially) don't think about playing an instrument in terms of getting a nice sound out of it.

your ear will tell you where the 'right' note is, or just draw on fake frets...

good luck dude!

Go to a session! There will be lots of people sawing away! It's a great way to learn!
BECAUSE every tune starts in the same key. So - as much as a tune, reel, jig, what have you changes - the key doesn't change without a HUGE nod from the more experienced players. Which means it is a great way to learn how to saw away at the three basics you will need. Until you decide to thrill us with some Verdi.
Plus, some nice singer will approach and croon "Ye Banks And Braes" or "Whiskey In The Jar" or "Lakes of Ponchatrain".
That singer might need your note. You might follow that singer.
You will figure it out!

the violin appears to be extremely difficult to master. my mum had overheard my grandfather saying how proud he would be if she picked that instrument. so she saved money until she was able to afford one. she was pretty young, maybe younger than 10?

I played the violin for about 6 years when I was a kid, got to Grade 5. It is a tough instrument to learn, the lack of frets etc. Plus there's a different number of notes between strings to a guitar, I forget now how it goes, I think maybe the strings are 5ths apart instead of 4ths?

I think anyone who wants to learn an instrument is capable. We are not ALL going to be playing in an orchestra - but there are many ways to play music that makes everyone happy.
The violin - or fiddle, if it is used for folky purposes - can be very screechy. One way to avoid the screechy is to bow along with G-C-D - the major keys - and figure that part out. Find one sound!

I'm fascinated with concertinas these days. It's like a piano and an accordion.

Bow away and get better at it! Your ancestors are proud - playing music was as simple as eating for them.
Everyone played music at one point in time.
Dan is now going to make fun of me. Boo-hoo.:)(

Also, i'm not good at emoticons, or winkys, or whatever. So above is me frowning and then smiling.
maybe dan can weigh in on the D-G-C thing - the IMPORTANT keys? Yes? No?

lots of discussion about the bow (it's important) but the biggest things are creating memory muscle in your left hand to play in tune and learning to listen! whenever somebody wants to learn an instrument their goal is to play songs. ultimately this is what you will achieve with the violin but realistically what you'll be learning is just notes for a long time. unfortunately this isn't like a guitar where you can just break it out and jam.

get some white masking tape and cut thin strips out to mark out the first position finger positions..see this picture (the blue lines indicate the first position). the violin is completely unforgiving, it takes very little to play out of tune so it is extremely critical to practice where the fingers should be placed and create memory muscle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Violin_first_position_fingering_chart.png

posture is very important. no slouching! always keep the violin parallel to the ground when it's underneath your chin. the left wrist should be straight. do not allow it to fold otherwise you will lose mobility and it will hurt! also the left hand is not intended to hold the violin. you should be able to support the viiolin by simply placing it between your jawline and shoulder. when i first learned the violin the bow was not even taken out of the case for several months. the focus was learning to listen and to play in tune with pizzacato (plucking the strings). but if you want to start using the bow the way you hold it is very important...the thumb should be placed just above the frog and no bananna thumbs!...the fingers/hand should curled and tilted (never perpendicular to the plane of the bow). the hand needs to always be loose and relaxed!

other suggestions: save the bowing techniques, vibrato, etc for later, focus on the fundamentals...always tune before you start playing and start with the a string (always be listening!)...loosen your bowhairs before storing your violin away otherwise your bow will warp...rosin isn't meant to produce a clear tone, it's supposed to help you keep a grip on the strings..think about taking lessons from somebody who knows how to play - you'll learn a lot faster and correctly

there's a lot going on when you play the violin so it's hard to make comments without even seeing you play...i hate to be long winded and all serious but i just wanted to hammer out some major points...bad habits on the violin are very hard to break and will drastically affect your sound and your enthusiasm

johnny, aren't you secretly planning to move in with mark s and start rehearsing as a duo?

This is true, as reported on Popbitch earlier this week.

I think I will get a violin teacher, this all sounds really complicated. Not difficult necessarily, but as you say, there's an awful lot going on. I'll ask around and see if anyone knows anyone.

in Polish, the word for violin is a sigular plural like 'trousers' or 'scissors' which translates into English as 'the screechings'.

singular sp

That's a great factoid, Mark.

I suspect Polish gf will continue to supply me with copious factoids from Pomerania.

Are they all rubbish at playing the violin in Poland?

hooray for the polish influx

too right, Mr Gillanders!

unnecessary

duo now! it is the new mouse deterrent!

i do think you need a teacher to explain how to get a nice note -- my arm and hand know how to do it (i wz string bass playing in my school orc etc) but my brane doesn;t know how to tell my hands to type it

...next thing i know you'll be performing live on resonance fm, eh?!

as a duo...

How come all those gits on the Titanic knew how to play?