Debate Christianity

?

Looking forward to debating with you or without you.
http://ilx.wh3rd.net/index.php

Thank You

isn't that old dirty bastard dead?

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DEFINE GOSSIP.

Non-Christians are forbidden from foul langage....are christians allowed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard_%28band%29
Hail?

They only allow skinny people ;_;

Weird site=Christian site.

Maybe they're one of the few sects that's remembered that christianity is truly just a Jewish sect(I won't bother looking at THAT Wiki link -_-).

"Blood of Christ please, and have one for yourself mate"

Good old Thrill Kill Kult might be nice about now.

Gratned those are extreme examples(and I refuse to repeat the arguments that I threw those into) but the result no matter what is kind of a mumble-bumble response and blank stares.
They even change the subject amont themselves and don't return to it after i walk away(they always seem to be really loud...).

Probably because having seen how you argue it's not on topic and you keep repeating it over and over until they give up and refuse to engage with you and wait until your well gone before they begin to discuss it again.

But yeah. I have stumped my xian relatives with things before. I once asked my aunt what her stance was on believing xianity is the one true faith if muslims and shintos and etc also have this belief. And she just said "I don't know", and I felt like a heel.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/bryonygordon/4966672/Deborah-Drapper-Follow-the-Bible-not-the-Beckhams.html

Deborah Drapper looks every inch your average 13-year-old. Her bedroom in Dorset is pink and filled with dolls, she “tweets” on Twitter, and she has a blog in which she talks about her pet rabbits, and what fun it was when it snowed recently.

But it is when she is shown a picture of Victoria Beckham that it becomes apparent that Deborah is very different from the average adolescent. Her face goes blank. “It’s someone with dark glasses on,” she says. “Someone married to a Mr Beckham? I don’t know her, I’m sorry.”

he subjects of Paris Hilton and The X Factor provoke the reaction: “What’s reality television?”

Deborah is in this (enviable) position because her deeply religious parents have ensured all her life that she is protected from the sins of the outside world. Instead of being nurtured on a diet of celebrity culture, Deborah has been brought up on a combination of Christianity and traditional family values.

She has never watched television, or been to school, and the only people she really sees are her mother, father and 10 siblings, most of whom she lives with on a rambling farm, which she rarely leaves, bar the odd trip to the supermarket. The Bible, as opposed to Heat, is her required reading.

On Friday nights, Deborah doesn’t have girlie sleepovers. Instead, she heads into nearby Bridport to preach to the youths whom she feels have lost their way: the hoodies and the non-believers.

“Dad takes us to the skate park or the bus stop,” she says, playing with a pink pen adorned in fluff and glitter. “Sometimes they are drunk and have no idea what we are saying. But it’s OK. I never get scared.” And last summer, a BBC documentary crew set out to capture just what effect this had on her life.

I ask Deborah to pretend that I am one of the hoodies and show me how she speaks to them. She asks me if I consider myself a good person. I say that I try to be. Her eyes widen.

“Have you ever lied?” she asks.

I tell her I have told a few fibs in my time.

“OK, so that makes you a liar. And have you ever stolen anything?”

I admit to the theft of a rubber from Woolworths when I was a small child.

“So you are also a thief. And have you ever used God’s name in vain?”

She knows the answer to this – I mistakenly did so almost immediately upon meeting the Drapper family.

“So you are a lying, thieving blasphemer.” She looks very seriously at me. “Would you still consider yourself to be a good person?”

Deborah has the almost preternatural self-confidence that comes from being home-schooled. She spends half of each day praying, cooking, exercising, painting and gardening, and the other half studying a Christian curriculum that includes collectivism and creationism. She is super-bright and fiercely opinionated. She thinks that evolution is “one of the most ridiculous theories ever” and blames it for most of the nation’s ills.

“If you are taught from the start that you are just a piece of slime and that you have evolved from an animal then is it any surprise if you act like one? Survival of the fittest; if you don’t like someone, kill them. That’s what evolution teaches people so is it any wonder when children go to school and do just that?”

She has few friends, just a couple of people she emails from abroad. “I have my sisters,” she says. Does she never wish that she had someone she could call up and have a chat with? “I suppose sometimes it would be nice to have another Christian friend from church whom I could pray with,” she muses. “But I wouldn’t have non-Christian friends because they would probably lead me astray.

“I am not envious of other girls my age. I am happy as a person. A lot of the people I meet on a Friday night are not happy. If anything, they should be envious of me.”

* 'Deborah 13: Servant of God’, tonight at 9pm on BBC Three.

I'm intrigued by the fact that she has a blog and a Twitter feed but still (allegedly) manages to steer clear of outside-world information!

Pretty sure people were killing one another pre-evolution teaching, but hey what do I know.

There's a group of people known as "hoodies"? How are they different from emo highschoolers?

They are british.

As opposed to aspiring to be british.

I must admit, sometimes I feel a bit like this girl.

xp That explains it. Wait, no.

And they steal rubbers from Woolworths.

Erasers? Because...they care so much about their homework?

No, not erasers... Rubbers.

I was trying to figure out what rubbers means in England-speak.

http://deborahdrapper.com/

“If you are taught from the start that you are just a piece of slime and that you have evolved from an animal then is it any surprise if you act like one?"

vs.

“So you are a lying, thieving blasphemer.” She looks very seriously at me. “Would you still consider yourself to be a good person?”

vs.

"I am a sheltered lunatic."

Moral certainty + your basic precociousness + adolescence = a completely odious teenager.

I was going to post something much ruder but Laurel OTM.

It's really hard to blame her, she's been hand-fed this sense of superiority. I do have a lot of empathy for her sitch.

Yeah, I suggest that the problem is that everything in the world makes you feel rly good about your life choices until something INSIDE your belief system starts to seem wonky and you start thinking, maybe I'm not getting the better end of this deal....

ha nabisco otm

Eh, almost everyone has something wonky about their belief system.

For me, it was when I realized that major denominations were arguing six ways to Sunday about ordaining women and there were people who could have been my neighbors, writing letters to the editors of various journals saying that they couldn't live with a church that let women lead and I was like WHAT. THE. FUCK. and suddenly woke up.

Most belief systems have their inconsistencies, sure, but I think Laurel's right that people don't break out of this kind of thinking because of anyone else's example -- usually it's because there's something they themselves think, want, do, or feel that everyone around them is dogmatically resistant to. Some moment that comes where something they care about is suddenly on the other side of all the judgment and shunning they'd previously felt on the right side of.

When yr famous for what you believe its likely to take a lot more to provoke any serious self-analysis.

^^ which has got to be rough as hell, suddenly having to make this huge decision between your whole value system and social group vs. something you individually believe and are being told is wrong -- that's gotta take some amazing confidence in your convictions to stand by whatever that thing is

Still got nothing on Antigone though.

Does she never wish that she had someone she could call up and have a chat with? “I suppose sometimes it would be nice to have another Christian friend from church whom I could pray with,” she muses. “But I wouldn’t have non-Christian friends because they would probably lead me astray.

I find that sad.

Just that? Not the whole thing?

(Everyone knows my posts on here were just idle, bored speculation meant to kill the end of the office day, right? Clearly this girl's world is not going to crumble if we show her reality TV! Although maybe "RuPaul's Drag Race" would work...)

Well, I spent almost 10 years struggling w the certainty that I was going to have to be a subservient wife someday, and a husband would rule over me and have the final say, socially and religiously. I gave up and decided that someday when I was a grown-up I'd understand why that was necessary and part of God's will. I guess I snapped when I realized I was a grown-up and nothing had changed...and then the ordination thing just pushed me over the edge.

the whole thing is sad, insofar as this has been more or less forced upon her (though she doesn't seem unhappy), which is why the cheeky "enviable" the writer slips in seems wrongheaded.

she's happy now, why begrudge her her happiness?

Sure it isn't going to LAST, but that's another issue

happiness never lasts, is the thing

fortunately, sadness never lasts either

i think the jig was up when i grew weary of the assertion that this one group's big ball of bullshit was somehow superior and more righteous than everybody else's ball of bullshit. the bullshit is bad enough on its own terms - but to get all sanctimonious about it? fuhuhuhuhuck you. made for some interesting convos with 8th grade sunday school teacher.

also lots of misinformation being flung about w/r/t abortion. i like to think (hope) that the internet age has made access to non-propagandist info a little easier ...obv it's also made huge steaming piles really accessible as well, so maybe it's a wash : /

Yeah, will, me too with the Sunday school arguments -- but I was in a somewhat isolated area so there was nothing better on offer, really, which probably made it easier to keep believing until the gender thing forced the issue.

Luckily my parents, altho they somehow thought it was okay for us to be crazy Evangelicals, didn't actually BELIEVE that I was inferior to anyone. In the world. So I had enough confidence to think, "That can't be right, I know better."

'Deborah 13: Servant of God’,

first thought was that this was a chapter from the bible. "hmm, i don't know that one... ohh..."

James 14: Cleaner of Toilets

Alife 13: Father of Baby

Just that? Not the whole thing?

Well the whole thing is sad, but that bit really really is sad.

I have no idea what any of you are talking about.

Were you home-schooled?

He means they don't have religion in Ireland ;)

Do they have hoodies?

It's like the Westboro Baptist Church, I just wanna say to them - sure, believe what you like, but don't you realise you are behaving like a massive dick? And do you really want to follow a god who wants you to behave like a massive dick?

Usually blankets over their heads
xp

weak appeal to etiquette vs The Lord&his massive dick

Did anyone see the actual show? I wonder what the parents were like

it's here btw

not if you're not from the uk

^^ which has got to be rough as hell, suddenly having to make this huge decision between your whole value system and social group vs. something you individually believe and are being told is wrong -- that's gotta take some amazing confidence in your convictions to stand by whatever that thing is

yeah, this can be a big thing. In that authoritarian thread i started a coupla years back, i linked to some writing where somebody actually walks you thru the steps of how you go from such a restrictive/fundie life to one that actually gets out into the real world.

oh here we are:

Dealing with Authoritarians; or, How to Talk to People Who Hate You

thanks yungblut!

http://www.amazon.com/CONTROL-CHRISTIAN-MARRIAGES-PRIESTHOOD-CHILDREN/product-reviews/1425992609/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

be sure to check the reviews, too

1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars I'VE FOUND THE LIGHT WITH MY CAPS LOCK KEY, March 12, 2009
By G. Foster (Gville) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
WHENEVER I ACCIDENTALLY HIT THE CAPS LOCK KEY IN THE PAST, A LITTLE LIGHT WOULD COME ON. LITTLE DID I KNOW THAT LIGHT WAS JESUS TRYING TO GET AT MY BRAIN. BUT ONCE I LET HIM IN AND BURNED ALL MY BOOKS AND CONDOMS, I REALIZED THAT THE ONLY CHRISTIAN WAY TO WRITE IS IN ALL CAPS. OTHERWISE THE HOLY SPIRIT WON'T GET ACROSS TO ANYBODY!

THIS IS A FANTASTIC BOOK BUT MY BOOKSHELF IS A BIT SPARSE AS AFTER READING IT I BURNED ALL MY OTHER BOOKS, INCLUDING THE BIBLES AS THEY WERE WRITTEN PARTIALLY IN LOWERCASE LETTERS, OR AS I LIKE TO CALL THEM, THE DEVIL'S RUNES. CAN ANYONE RECOMMEND ME A GOOD ALLCAPS BIBLE?

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0._V47081849_.gifExcellent Instructional. But is it too good?

Who on earth would publish a book where the print is ALL IN CAPS?

self-published, i think

all 600 pages of it

want it. but im not sure about the $135 price tag...

Perhaps this book itself is a form of birth control, which would then mean this book, too, is sinful?

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Where are the other 2 brothers & sisters?

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Oh, I see.

kingfish, I read that whole authoritarian series when SR first put it out, and it's quite disturbingly useful and OTM. Thanks for having recommended it in the first place, you've made me an Orcinus reader ever since!

deborah d rapper

MS. ELIYZABETH YANNE STRONG: ALSO HAS A 1ST DEGREE BLACK BELT IN TAEJUKENPO KARATE: SHE STARTED A KIDS & TEEN: KARATE MEMBERSHIP & TV CLUB: CALLED: KARATE PLAY: IN 1996-2000: SHE IS NOW: STARTING: RECREATION CITY KARATE CLASSES IN TUCSON ARIZONA: WITH GOALS TO OFFER PRIVATE MEMBERSHIP KARATE CLUB CLASSES. MS. ELIYZABETH YANNE STRONG-ANDERSON: ALSO PETITION FOR THE MAYOR SEAT IN TUCSON ARIZONA IN 1998. BECAUSE OF ORGANIZED CRIMES, POLICTICAL RACISM AND CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION AGAINST ELIYZABETH: HOLYSPIRIT EVANGELIST LIFE: IN THE PAST 10 YEARS: GOD HAS DIRECTED MS. ELIYZABETH YANNE STRONG-ANDERSON: TO WRITE THIS BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE, AND THIS BOOK OF REPENTANCE: TO HELP SAVE THE WORLD:

rock over london, rock on chicago
birth control: sinful in the christian marriages and also robbing god of priesthood children

birth control: sinful in the christian marriages and also robbing god of priesthood children

^also happens to be my favorite scandinavian black metal album