!"£$%^&* Qwerty schmerty! This is the thread where we redesign the keyboard coz we hate it so much!!!

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Describe changes that you would make to the keyboard design if you were able to.

― New Mark H (New MarkH), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:31 (eighteen years ago)

auto-pilot. never having to type. it could read my mind and do the typing for me!

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:32 (eighteen years ago)

Bigger gaps between keys, to minimise typos.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:33 (eighteen years ago)

A key which does this:

http://metropolis.japantoday.com/xmg/498/Thunderpants.jpg

― Frogm@n Henry (Frogm@n Henry), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:34 (eighteen years ago)

Dvorak (not that one) to thread, obv.

but on a personal note, I like to do sums in a cell in Excel when I have three numbers to sum that I want to input. So I use equals and 1+2+3 whatever rather than typing Run + calc to bring up the calculator or using an actual physical calculator. But why oh why isn't there an equals key on the right hand keypad? Yes, ok so I can use the Enter button, but it would be far better if there was an equals at the top rather than that silly Number Lock button, which I often end up hitting by accident and wonder why I am cursoring around the screen like billy-oh. Surely it would be far better to remove the equals next to backspace and put Number lock there where I can't do no damage, or else group it with Insert, Page Up, Page Down ect ect...

― New Mark H (New MarkH), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:36 (eighteen years ago)

which I often end up hitting by accident and wonder why I am cursoring around the screen like billy-oh.

There's a manager here who phones me up about once every couple of months to say: "My keyboard isn't typing anything!" Which, of course, means she's trying to type some numbers but she's hit Num Lock. She never remembers how to sort it for the next time.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:42 (eighteen years ago)

Mark, you forget to press the massive enter key and instead hit the tiny numlock key on the other side of the keypad? In fairness, I hardly think that's the fault of the keyboard.

― Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:45 (eighteen years ago)

How many times have I answered this question. Chord keyboards are the way forward. Imagine the way you make a note with a trumpet - you only need three "keys" to make loads and loads of notes. Chord keyboards are similar. You hold down one, two, three, four or five keys at the same time, in different combinations, to create every letter and command available on an extended keyboard. Obv this will lead to a world where everyone knows how to "chord" and can then communicate silently with one another just by holding hands and touching the tips of our fingers softly into the palms of the other...

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:47 (eighteen years ago)

I have an American-layout keyboard, but use British-input layout because I expect to have " above the 2 even though @ is what is actually printed on the keyboard. But this means I can't get a backslash when I need one, cos if I remember correctly it is on an extra key next to the z in Britain. On my keyboard, backslash is printed next to the backspace key, but when I press it I get #, which is actually printed above the 3, and when I press that I get £, which is as it should be. But I want an extra key for backslash.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:47 (eighteen years ago)

You hold down one, two, three, four or five keys at the same time, in different combinations

So you need to hold down more than one key to write a letter? Or shortcuts to make and, but, if etc?

― Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:57 (eighteen years ago)

tiny Num Lock key, Johnney? you are making it sound as if it has the dimensions of a ball bearing or grain of cous-cous! It is exactly the same size as the number keys that juxtapose it and as such is just as likely to be hit in error as any other key!

― New Mark H (New MarkH), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:59 (eighteen years ago)

auto-pilot. never having to type. it could read my mind and do the typing for me!

-- Nathalie (dotdotdo...), February 1st, 2007 11:32 AM. (stevie nixed) (link)

I don't want a keybBOOBIESoard to read my mLINGERIEind, thankyouvBOOBIESAGAINerymuch.

― StanM (StanM), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:59 (eighteen years ago)

I am dying for these to become cheap enough to see if they are worthwhile

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/6c82/

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:00 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/frogpad.jpg

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:01 (eighteen years ago)

So you need to hold down more than one key to write a letter? Or shortcuts to make and, but, if etc?

Exactly. Leaving one hand free for uh other things. I heard once, dunno if it's true, that the people who invented the mouse at Xerox PARC always envisaged the mouse being used in conjunction with a chord keyboard rather than a normal one, so that you'd have one hand on the mouse and another on your keyboard, with none of this "having to move your hands to the keyboard/back to the mouse" faff.

Just google "chord keyboard", there's lots of info out there, sadly all the models produced so far look like Commodore 64 peripherals.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:13 (eighteen years ago)

Ed I'm not really convinced by that one - it seems like more of a half-step.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:16 (eighteen years ago)

What you're suggesting sounds a bit like stenography, Tracer.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:40 (eighteen years ago)

Yes! With improved tech these days, though, it's easy to imagine, say, a smooth curved surface your hand can rest comfortably on, which measures points of pressure wherever they appear on it, so that you wouldn't need keys as such, just a device that would know "i am oriented this way, and these three points are being pressed at a certain distance from each other and a certain angle from my top, therefore make the word 'and' appear on screen"

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:46 (eighteen years ago)

i would swap 's' and 'd' keys around

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:55 (eighteen years ago)

You can't mess with WASD!

― onimo (onimo), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:57 (eighteen years ago)

A tactile semisphere that combines "mouse gestures" with chorded keyboard commands would be the ultimate, in my mind. You would need an agreed-upon ruleset for the chords and gestures so that people could use each others' computers is the main problem. The adoption of QWERTY came only after massive investment in training, with typing competitions held around the world, etc.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:58 (eighteen years ago)

yedtersay wad wesnedsay

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 11:59 (eighteen years ago)

mainly i can type faster than i can usefully think, which is fine except for when i don't need to think like transcribing, etc. foreign character support shld be more obvious and intuitive tho, and there should def be a real meta key. also, yeah, fuck the help key. & RESPONSIVE volume keyz plz.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 1 February 2007 12:08 (eighteen years ago)

Ed, have you tried any of those (cheaper) "mirrored" half keyboards? (I think they call them "half-QWERTY.") I know someone who constantly takes notes with one of these, and while it seems to everyone around him like he's some kind of cross-brained magician, he claims it's pretty simple to learn. You're basically just using the space bar to shift/toggle between it being the right or left side of a full keyboard, so all your touch-typing skills still apply; apparently the brain can take to the reversal pretty easily.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 1 February 2007 13:40 (eighteen years ago)

FUCK A "WINDOWS" KEY

― fandango (fandango), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

The most pointless one is the one right o the top left with some kind of reverse apostrophe, and a vertical line, and a tipped-on-it's-sitd L-shape. (I'll prob be told it's well important for typesetting or some such bollox now, but for the rest of us that DON'T work in the typeface industry, it's pointless)

― Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:05 (eighteen years ago)

:¬(

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:08 (eighteen years ago)

±§)

― stet (stet), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

`¬¦

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:12 (eighteen years ago)

o¬

You find a "key"

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

doh! it looked more like a key in the Message window font

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

for some reason my num lock never sticks when I log off my computer. which is annoying when I try to log back on and have to reset it.

minor complaint. otherwise I have no issues with qwerty. high school typing was the valuable class I ever took.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:20 (eighteen years ago)


 o                           o
/\                   `        ¬\
||                              |"BLAM"

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

haha nurd

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

My keyboards at work and home have a different arrangement of the six Page Up, Page Down, Home, End, Delete and Insert keys. I use five of them frequently but because I never get used to the way either keyboard is arranged, I always seem to end up hitting the one I never use: Fucking Insert. Who uses the overwrite feature anyway? Grrr.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:29 (eighteen years ago)

I use the Insert key. *ducks*

― Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:41 (eighteen years ago)

"where's my Tab?"

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

Etaoin Shrdlu to thread.

― Stephen X (Stephen X), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:46 (eighteen years ago)

I used insert a lot when I used to code in a green screen mainframe app. But outside of that, useless pain in the ass.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

You can get a Linotype keyboard (etaoin shrdlu) for PC as well. The inkies at work were in raptures over it.

― stet (stet), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:05 (eighteen years ago)

I use the Insert key. *ducks*

what for? srsly. all it ever does for me is piss me off.

― emsk ( emsk), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

do all of you who hit wrong keys that are NOWHERE CLOSE to the alphanumeric keys have fat sausage fingers?

― UART variations (ex machina), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

> The most pointless one is the one right o the top left with some kind of reverse apostrophe

you can have my backtick when you pry it out of my cold dead hands.

(it's used on linux shell to mean 'run this command and assign the result as a value':

DATE=`date`
)

(the ¬ is a logical NOT in certain boolean algebras. i can't even type the | symbol thing)

― Koogy Bloogies (koogs), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/das_keyboard_2.jpg

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`

its like a grid cover pattern

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

in the message window font it is anyway

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

Ahhhhh, so it's linux. Fair nuf.

I use the insert key for, well, going over stuff when I want the rest of the line. Like I'm changing the date or a variable or something, but I want the rest of the line the same. It's very handy.

― Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

All I know is that working retail gave me a great, great love for the number pad, I can't even reach/hit the numeral keys along the top of the QWERTY without looking at them. But I think Tracer's one hand mouse, one hand type idea is BRILLIANT!

― Laurel (Laurel), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

I always seem to end up hitting the one I never use: Fucking Insert. Who uses the overwrite feature anyway? Grrr.

Control/Shift-Insert is another way to copy-and-paste on a PC. Especially useful if ^C and ^V have other meanings in an app.

― A knife to his wife Eve and his credibility. (goodbra), Thursday, 1 February 2007 23:38 (eighteen years ago)

is there a key combo to turn on insert on a mac

― UART variations (ex machina), Thursday, 1 February 2007 23:41 (eighteen years ago)

Ms Misery: how to make sure NumLock is ON by default instead of off:

http://www.tweakxp.com/article37425.aspx

(assuming you're using windows xp, that is)

― StanM (StanM), Thursday, 1 February 2007 23:45 (eighteen years ago)

'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'
'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`
`.'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'.`.'.`.'.`'.`.'

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 February 2007 23:47 (eighteen years ago)

I feel like Woodstock.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 February 2007 23:47 (eighteen years ago)

¬ is a logical NOT symbol but to the best of my not very extensive knowledge it has never been used as such in any programming language, which makes it pretty useless unless you're typesetting maths notes, in which case you probably have to get elbow deep in LaTeX for your symbols anyway. I don't know why there's a broken pipe as well as the unbroken pipe, or why command prompt and I think real DOS too make my | look like a broken pipe, or what happened once that made DOS Edit (the only editor available on the system) insert other characters which looked exactly like | but had a different ascii value, causing regex-related bewilderment.

I still use the old DOS-era Microsoft ctrl-insert and shift-insert copy+paste shortcuts which are silently still maintained in most but not all Windows apps. I will be in a world of confusion when they finally stop supporting them. Also insert is handy for tracker nerds everywhere and ` is useful in Impulse Tracker. And as another tracker nerd thing, numpadless laptop keyboards make me cry bitter tears of frustration.

Anyway it is ridiculously hard just to buy a standard UK+windowskeys keyboard these days, you have to squint at these tiny jpegs at yr online shop of choice until you realise that actually that unexpected pixel of shading means they've made Enter the wrong shape and Backspace half the size (seriously, I am one of those sausagefingers, don't make me type ### after all my many typos because backspace isn't where it should be) and rearranged the punctuation or put some magic hibernate/email/whatever button which doesn't even work right where I'm going to press it when I want the arrow keys.

Oh! A circular "sleep" key and a "homepage" button which has never worked with any browser ever, crammed into the only hand-resting space left on the keyboard! Oh! No way of waking it up from sleep after I've pressed it! Thank you all so much.

― Rebecca (reb), Friday, 2 February 2007 03:22 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know why there's a broken pipe as well as the unbroken pipe

wait where is unbroken pipe on kbd? where is logical not?

ps rebecca you are rad!!!!

― UART variations (ex machina), Friday, 2 February 2007 03:25 (eighteen years ago)

Nerd-on.

― A knife to his wife Eve and his credibility. (goodbra), Friday, 2 February 2007 03:38 (eighteen years ago)

I am one of those sausagefingers, don't make me type ### after all my many typos because backspace isn't where it should be

Unfortunately, I know what this means.

― A knife to his wife Eve and his credibility. (goodbra), Friday, 2 February 2007 03:42 (eighteen years ago)

Um. Thanks! Unless I just won tonight's blissful unawareness of sarcasm prize.

On a UK keyboard | (with an unbroken | on the key top) is on the \ key between left shift and Z, and there's a key to the left of 1 where I think you have the tilde, with ` unshifted, ¬ shifted, and ¦ (if that will work here - it's a | with a break in the middle) if you hold down Alt Gr. Like this.

― Rebecca (reb), Friday, 2 February 2007 03:46 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.cca.org/d/symbolics.jpg

― shieldforyoureyes (shieldforyoureyes), Friday, 2 February 2007 05:31 (eighteen years ago)

"Rubout"? They have a button for that?

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 2 February 2007 05:48 (eighteen years ago)

Ooh, that looks like a later generation of these awesome beasts (zoom in on the photos). Might've been ILX that introduced me to them in the first place, in which case sorry.

― Rebecca (reb), Friday, 2 February 2007 06:15 (eighteen years ago)

Yep. In fact... the keyboard in those photos is currently on loan to
my museum, but I haven't gotten around to taking any photos of it yet.

― shieldforyoureyes (shieldforyoureyes), Friday, 2 February 2007 08:26 (eighteen years ago)

Is that the new Playstation controller? Why the X key so far from circle, square and triangle?

Jon: Help key (F1) not close to alphanum, but close to Escape grrr.

I use Windows key quite a bit: win+E, win+M, win+Pause/Break.

Different layouts of ins/del/home/end/pgup/pgdown is TEH SUX0R. Give me regular old two-high-by-three-wide plz.

― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Friday, 2 February 2007 09:09 (eighteen years ago)

I like a noisy keyboard that I can batter away at. Must drive my colleagues mad.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Friday, 2 February 2007 11:32 (eighteen years ago)

I think I am going to get one of these:

http://matias.ca/tactilepro/

― Ed (dali), Friday, 2 February 2007 11:34 (eighteen years ago)

I'd like a keyboard that listed all the foreign characters that alt/option (I'm on mac hardware) produce. I mean knowing where the basic latin accents are is easy but who can remember alt b is ∫ and alt z is Ω.

The magic SysRq key in linux is rad: http://linux.about.com/od/linux101/l/blnewbie5_1.htm

― UART variations (ex machina), Friday, 2 February 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Also that Symbolics keyboard makes me want Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadooloop modifiers

― UART variations (ex machina), Friday, 2 February 2007 14:05 (eighteen years ago)

we had a symbolics at my first job (one of these stripey grey things http://www.silicium.org/stations/symbolics3620.htm). never actually used it (or saw it used) but i know it was used for writing proofs in Z, hence all the crazy set theory symbols on the space cadet keyboard (Z manual pdf here: http://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/mike/zrm/index.html)

both keyboards here are surprising free of email buttons and volume slider attachments. one doesn't even have a windows button.

> I'd like a keyboard that listed all the foreign characters that alt/option (I'm on mac hardware) produce.

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ - led keyboard that changes as you type.

― Koogy Bloogies (koogs), Friday, 2 February 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

I have a fantastic SUN keyboard at home that almost makes me want to run up the old sprac station just to use it. So big and expansive.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 2 February 2007 14:32 (eighteen years ago)

Ooh Ed that keyb looks sweet. It's expensive but could be worth it for the diacritics/symbols alone.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 2 February 2007 14:49 (eighteen years ago)

I have a Tactile Pro. It's a bit clankier than the keyboard it's s'posed to emulate, the Apple Extended. I'm not using it now, though. It's so loud that my boss could easily tell when I'm chatting, coding, or staring off into space. That kinda accountability I don't need.

― A knife to his wife Eve and his credibility. (goodbra), Friday, 2 February 2007 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ - led keyboard that changes as you type.
I READ SLASHDOT 3 YEARS AGO TOO

― UART variations (ex machina), Friday, 2 February 2007 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.combimouse.com/Assets/home%20page/Combimouse.jpg

― Simply Steve! (née Christiane F.) (drowned in milk), Friday, 2 February 2007 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

It's that kind of thing, and the QWERTY keyboard in general (or DVORAK, or whatever) that is going to look so impossibly ancient and bizarre in 100 years' time.

― Elsa Svitborg (tracerhand), Friday, 2 February 2007 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.