Bitterness (the Emotion, not the Taste)

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Is bitterness always a negative emotion? Does it ever serve a constructive purpose, and if so, what?

Is there anything that you are particularly bitter about? If so, how does it affect you?

How, exactly, does bitterness happen? What are the mechanics of bitterness? At what point does disappointment become calcified into bitterness? Is it a permanent state? How does one become biter? How does one stop being bitter (if indeed you ever do)?

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 12:48 (eighteen years ago)

Is anyone else on ILX actually going to own up to being bitter? There are lots of people around here who *seem* embittered, but maybe it's something that really only other people notice first.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 12:56 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think it has any redeeming qualities, really, because you could feel so much happier. It's wasted energy in my opinion.
But what is bitterness really. When I look it up it seems to be various emotions.

adjective
1. having a harsh, disagreeably acrid taste, like that of aspirin, quinine, wormwood, or aloes.
2. producing one of the four basic taste sensations; not sour, sweet, or salt.
3. hard to bear; grievous; distressful: a bitter sorrow.
4. causing pain; piercing; stinging: a bitter chill.
5. characterized by intense antagonism or hostility: bitter hatred.
6. hard to admit or accept: a bitter lesson.
7. resentful or cynical: bitter words

I will admit to being bitter about certain things, but I try not to have these emotions for too long. It's wasted energy imo.

― nathalie, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:00 (eighteen years ago)

a second of life spent bitter is a second of life that could have been spent not bitter.

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:01 (eighteen years ago)

Why is it "wasted energy"? this is the same thing as with grudges that I don't understand. It doesn't take any energy at all to be bitter. It takes energy to get past being bitter. I don't always have the energy to be cheerful and forward thinking and hopeful. That takes energy for me.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:02 (eighteen years ago)

I'm a bitter alright.

― Pete, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:02 (eighteen years ago)

I think that the problem with being bitter is that bitterness, pessimism, becomes the default emotion.

It takes effort not to be bitter. And that energy feels wasted if it produces no results that don't reinforce the bitterness.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:03 (eighteen years ago)

if you can find a positive in bitterness then maybe it can work for you but i looked into the abyss and i preferred the meadow

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:03 (eighteen years ago)

It doesn't take any energy at all to be bitter.
It takes effort not to be bitter. And that energy feels wasted if it produces no results that don't reinforce the bitterness.

i really disagree with all of this. bitterness takes real energy - in the form of anxiety and neuroses and depression and being unhappy.

― electricsound, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:05 (eighteen years ago)

sometimes I worry that people will think I'm being bitter when I joke about bad things that have happened to me. I feel like I should throw in a disclaimer: "oh, by the way, that doesn't actually still bother me; I only brought it up because I thought there were laughs to be had about it"

― bernard snowy, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:05 (eighteen years ago)

Enrique to thread

― Mark C, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:10 (eighteen years ago)

Depression and being unhappy doesn't take energy! it's a neurochemical state, it just happens!

I suppose I think about the things I'm not bitter about... I know people who have been made bitter by their experiences in the music business and quit making music forever because they didn't end up pop stars. There was a real danger of that happening to me, but I had to rearrange my priorities and my outlook and realised, I don't do this because I want to be a pop star, I do this because it makes me happy when I do it.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:10 (eighteen years ago)

if it doesn't take energy, why is it so damn tiring?

― electricsound, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not bitter about anything. Waste of time and energy - just try and learn from it.

― Dr.C, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:12 (eighteen years ago)

Because depression is the absence of energy. maybe we are talking about different things when we say "depression".

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:12 (eighteen years ago)

If anything, I dislike bitterness in myself, not because it's "wasted energy" or whatever, but because it is so LAZY.

It's really easy to think "oh, well, it won't work out, so why should I even bother trying?" It's not easy to drag yourself up and try again. Like I said, it takes me energy not to be bitter.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:18 (eighteen years ago)

Depression and being unhappy doesn't take energy! it's a neurochemical state, it just happens!

but surely entering any neurochemical state requires energy?

legion of ILX neuroscientists to thread, obv ;)

do I seem bitter? am I bitter? I don't know. I think that since I took prozac (I have recently stopped taking it after being prescribed a 3 month course) I seem to have stopped thinking about the past, coz it is thinking abt the past that brings on the bitterness. It's interesting that our thoughts and actions can be influenced by chemicals in that way, but I don't think it's anything to be scared of. I find it quite fascinating.

― Grandpont Genie, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:18 (eighteen years ago)

but surely entering any neurochemical state requires energy?

Not when those neural pathways are the ones that have been reinforced by frequent use. Or at least, this is what my mum claims. That the more you are negative or bitter, the easier it becomes to slip into it.

Maybe not thinking about the past is U&K. It's one thing to learn from past experiences, but quite another to dwell on them.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:23 (eighteen years ago)

(My mum lives in Vermont so this could just be hippie nonsense.)

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:23 (eighteen years ago)

**It's one thing to learn from past experiences, but quite another to dwell on them**

That's true.

― Dr.C, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:24 (eighteen years ago)

not necessarily hippy nonsense but at the same time yr mum is a priest not a neuroscientist and so probably has as much authority on the subject as you or I (I'm guessing).

not intended as a criticism of yr mum, btw, I've met her, she's lovely, just saying, like....

― Grandpont Genie, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:26 (eighteen years ago)

Well, my mum works in a hospital at the moment, so she does have more access to journals and stuff. Priests these days have to keep up with a lot of psychology, because so much of their job involves pastoral counselling - they have to be able to tell the difference between someone who needs spiritual care and someone who needs medical care as for many people in the rural US without health insurance, their first port of call when they are troubled is the clergy.

I do think she has her own agenda, in that she is describing herself as much as me when she talks about reinforcing neural pathways, but then again, a lot of this stuff is genetic in terms of predispositions.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:31 (eighteen years ago)

oh the difference between needing spiritual care and medical care = big can of worms, shurely? It's hard to get my head round -- there may be a God, there may not and so by extension, the concept of "spiritual care" may be valid, and may be not. Presumably as a member of the clergy yr mum takes the existence of God as a given, but for the rest of us...? Argh, my head hurts....

― Grandpont Genie, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:35 (eighteen years ago)

Yes I'm bitter, and I truly believe its a wholly negative quality. I wish I could shake it off quicker when it rises to the surface but I can't and then I become depressed for days or weeks.

Currently I'm bitter about all my friends settling down while I'm the only one still single. I don't even want to meet someone, I just wish some of my mates would split up. ha ha.

― Ste, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:36 (eighteen years ago)

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:37 (eighteen years ago)

wish some of my mates would split up

a joke presumably but this is a real issue - usually it's not "wish they'd split up" but wish they'd stop doing couply things with other couples the whole time which screens the single people out.

It's early days for me, so I have avoided falling into this trap. But I would imagine it gets a lot harder to do once couples start having kids, they are all limited by the choices of what they can do together which ---> cliqueyness.

― Grandpont Genie, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:39 (eighteen years ago)

yes exactly. it was all very diluted up until recently where couples have started buying houses with each other and what not. So far not many of them have had kids or got married but it surely won't be long before this happens and I think it will be really tough for me then.

― Ste, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:47 (eighteen years ago)

sometimes you fall on the ground or maybe even get pushed and its not as easy as you thought to get back up but when you stay on the ground because that feeling has hardened and you dont want to get up anymore, thats bitterness

its better to try get up

Yeah, but what if someone just pushes you down again? It's better to stay down. Or stay away from people who knock you down. Is that bitterness? Or being sensible?

This was a lot of the problem with CBT, for me. You were supposed to look at your negative beliefs naturally and figure your way out of them, and try to contradict them logically. The problem with me was, some of those negative beliefs were actually true. Or at least, all of the evidence I could produce supported the negative beliefs.

Anyway, a lot of pastoral care appears to boil down to "I'm having a lot of trouble right now, and not feeling great" and sometimes that person just needs a mother figure to talk to and provide comfort and an ear - and sometimes that person needs a doctor and a course of SSRIs. Problem is, too much of the mental health care system focuses on the latter. Churches can provide a low cost version of the former.

But like I said, my mum is working as chaplain of a hospital at the moment, and a lot of the people she is doing pastoral care for are in life or death situations. Doctors may be able to patch people up physically, but the issues of "OHMIGOD, I MIGHT ACTUALLY DIE FROM THIS!!! How do I make peace with this realisation" or "Jesus Christ, my child was so young, why did she get cancer?!?!? It isn't fair!" do require spiritual counselling, not mental health intervention.

I think my mum has one of the hardest jobs in the world, and I have a great deal of respect for her for being able to do it, and bring comfort to people in extreme situations -even if I don't believe in her exact religion, or some of the hippie nonsense.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:47 (eighteen years ago)

Why are people conflating bitterness and depression? I can think of one person known to this community who suffers from very severe depression and has never to my knowledge displayed an ounce of bitterness.

Depression is an absence of energy, bitterness is a waste of energy. And even Kate is right, and it does stem from a lack of energy in the first place, it's the fallout from sustained bitterness that's really energy sapping.

I'm not especially bitter about anything, even times when people have really fucked me over. Yay me.

― Matt DC, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:51 (eighteen years ago)

sometimes life is getting up.

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:51 (eighteen years ago)

yea this is about bitterness not depression. bitterness isn't when you fall in the mud, its when the mud hardens around you and you can't get out anymore but it holds you in place

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

Bitterness can also be when you're in the meadow and the sun is shining but your eyes keep getting drawn back to the mud, even if you're not mired in it.

Yours metaphorically strained,

― Matt DC, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

but my bitterness triggers depression, every time.

― Ste, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

I get the feeling Matt can't wait for Glastonbury.

― blueski, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:56 (eighteen years ago)

but the meadow is a wonderful place! i swear i saw a lark swoop down. maybe, if you are quiet, you will see it too

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

Because in my experience, (Your Mileage May Vary) the two (bitterness and depression) are very much linked, and while they are not the same thing, they very definitely feed off one another.

There was an article in the Guardian recently (I know, hush) that talked about the link between depression and mood being like the link between climate and weather.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

a little bitter over here, but its like way charming

― homosexual II, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:12 (eighteen years ago)

wow this meadow metaphor is blowing my mind!!!

― homosexual II, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:14 (eighteen years ago)

Is anyone bitter about things other than not having a partner? because that seems to be the one that gets picked on as being somehow irrational or a waste of energy.

Is it more or less acceptible to be bitter about not getting the education or the job or the salary that one wanted? People seem to view class related bitterness as almost noble. (this is such an obvious cat among the (amazing) pidgeons that I hope no one will get riled up by it.)

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

that kind of bitterness for me lasts about 7 seconds.

― Ste, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:21 (eighteen years ago)

See, I don't suffer from that kind of bitterness at all. (This may be because I am middle class and it isn't an issue.) But I've seen people torn up by it. That seems to me a waste of energy, perhaps, to be bothered by it.

But one doesn't chose what one is "bothered" by or becomes bitter over, does one?

I am bothered by my emotional needs getting met. Maybe that's a luxury, if you are worried about one's material needs getting met.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:25 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not bitter yet, but I may be soon.

― rumpie, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:27 (eighteen years ago)

Is it more or less acceptible to be bitter about not getting the education or the job or the salary that one wanted?

Depends - I think that this kind of bitterness comes into play when you compare yrself with other people and if you think that someone else has got further than you education or salary wise and visibly put less effort in then that's perfectly acceptable.

most bitterness abt not having a partner for same reason that most songs abt love, shurely?

― Grandpont Genie, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:28 (eighteen years ago)

more acceptable bitterness = being bitter about the badness of Thatcher, or Bush, or Blair, or Chirac, or Saddam, or Sharon and so on and so on

but then that's not the introspective self-centred kind i guess.

― blueski, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:30 (eighteen years ago)

I think job or money-related bitterness is probably even more widespread than partner-related bitterness.

― Matt DC, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:30 (eighteen years ago)

Bitterness about not having a partner =

Depends - I think that this kind of bitterness comes into play when you compare yrself with other people and if you think that someone else has got further than you relationship wise and visibly put less effort in then that's perfectly acceptable.

A lot of my "single" bitterness, I think, comes from my looking at other people (usually ones I can't stand) and thinking "Bloody Hell, even *they* found someone to love them, yet I can't?" So perhaps it is the same thing as someone looking at a slacker like me and thinkging "bloody hell, even she can afford a mortgage, but I can't get on the property ladder."

Sorry, my metaphors are getting over-extended now.

But I am a horrible person like that. I suppose I should counteract by thinking about people I know who I think are great but some perplexing reason also can't find a partner.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

but then that's not the introspective self-centred kind i guess.

So to you, any kind of sustained introspection is self centered and therefore bad. I guess this explains so much of why we don't get on.

I think job or money-related bitterness is probably even more widespread than partner-related bitterness.

I think you may be right, but it somehow seems more "normal" in our society. Because with such an unlevel playing field, there is so much to be bitter about.

Maybe I should count my blessings that I always have been so happy-go-lucky about finances. I have a kind of native optimism there - if I have a job, I have loads of money. If I don't have a job, then I have no money - this is pretty stressful and annoying, but it's not the end of the world. There will always be another job. I inherited my father's attitude to money in this respect. I have simple pleasures - if I can afford them, I'm content. I've never *actually* been homeless for more than a week or two.

Weird, that a chaotic emotional life made me stressed and resentful and bitter.
But a chaotic financial life through most of my adult life made me happy go lucky and not bothered about money.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

As an Evertonian, I'm bitter by default. The only time it tips into depression is if Liverpool win something.

Sorry for the frivolous answer.

― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

haha

― Ste, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

There's a couple of things that happened to me/my partner/both of us that I feel bitter about if I think about them. It is a competely useless emotion as far as I can tell, in that feeling it stops you from doing something that will take your mind off it. I hate it. I don't feel it too often though.

― Pashmina, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

dont liverpool fans refer to evertonians as 'the bitters'?

― 688, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

Why would a football team make you bitter? Ah, yes, another reason football is a terrible thing. It makes people bitter. Let go.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

So to you, any kind of sustained introspection is self centered and therefore bad. I guess this explains so much of why we don't get on.

i didn't say it was 'therefore bad'. that was your interpretation. 'self-centred' needn't necessarily always be a negative thing.

― blueski, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

"If you can smile when you're losing, you'll always be a winner"

― Ste, Friday, 2 March 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

Why would a football team make you bitter? Ah, yes, another reason football is a terrible thing. It makes people bitter. Let go.

I doubt there's much to be gained from going into this here. I'm sure you could do without football talk on your thread (because it would bloom, like a flower in goalkeeping gloves). If one starts from a point where football is a terrible thing, there is nowhere for us to go. Sorry.

― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:07 (eighteen years ago)

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

the moments of victory in football are absoloutely splendid, and little compares. imo.

― Ste, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:11 (eighteen years ago)

I do not understand football fandom, I can only compare it to music fandom. If a band that I love start to consistently suck, album after album, I stop listening to them, stop buying the new albums.

Anyway, this is getting very tangential. Other sources of bitterness? Come on, ILX has some of the most bitter people on earth and none of them are owning up to it.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:13 (eighteen years ago)

is there a difference between being bitter and being a curmudgeon?

― Grandpont Genie, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

Well, I thought that a curmudgeon was specifically a bitter old man, but my dictionary says that the word is gender and age neutral, simply a bad-tempered person.

Bitterness is not the only bad temper, but it is a fairly common one.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~plragde/travel/2005pix/image/img_3649.jpg
kaet, yesterday

― g-kit, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:32 (eighteen years ago)

Wine makes you bitter and bitter mkes you whine?

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

whisky makes you frisky, brandy makes you randy, beer makes you queer

― onimo, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

on the football thing - I think the bitterness stems from the "coulda been a contender" thing, same as the career/education bitterness. There's always a reason for footballing failure beyond "we were shite" that allows people to cling onto to near misses for decades.

― onimo, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:41 (eighteen years ago)

I even get bitter about things that happen in Pro-Evolution Soccer. Like my top striker will just decide to retire then his replacement misses a sitter in a big game and it annoys me for days because I can blame the retiree rather than the player under my control.

― onimo, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:46 (eighteen years ago)

I suppose I'm not interested in football, but in why you would continue to invest so much emotion in something which makes you unhappy. It seems counterproductive. Unless there are other aspects (communal sense of belonging from being the underdog) which counteract the unhappiness.

This is pretty close to the mark, I think. It IS counterproductive and I'm sure many of us who have an emotional bond to a club have wondered why we put ourselves through it - wouldn't it be easier/healthier to walk away? But it's more like a family connection than one "merely" of fan/idol(s). You can't cut it out of your life. Worse (more twisted and even less rational) is the schadenfraude or gluckschmerz derived from the fortunes of teams other than yours. This is where the bitterness comes from. It's kinda bittersweet though.

― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:48 (eighteen years ago)

Evertonian bitterness = "wow, we could have really been something, before YOU came along and did something that was nothing to do with us, and still managed to fuck it up for both of us". Which is a pretty universal form of bitterness when you think about it.

― Matt DC, Friday, 2 March 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

Why is it "wasted energy"?

for me, 'bitterness' means feeling pain from an experience but, instead of working out how to improve the situation, work past the pain, make things better or do something constructive, using that pain as an excuse for wallowing in self-pity, for feeling wronged. there's plenty of stuff i feel bitter about, but i try and fight against that because i think it blinds you to finding solutions for the problem, or for somehow removing yourself from it.

like, a lot of last year i spent feeling bitter and fed up about a work situation. i wasn't doing anything 'positive' to remedy said situation, but rather dwelling upon how 'unfair' it was, how i was being wronged. by the end of the year, i was fed up of feeling bitter, and finally extricated myself from the situation, found a better and much more rewarding situation, and now i don't really feel all that bad or resentful about the situation - i couldn't change it, i just had to get out. i can almost laugh about it now, the ridiculousness of it, the ludicrously spiteful nature of what happened. if i was still bitter about it, if i hadn't changed the situation myself, i probably wouldn't be able to.

there are other things i still feel bitter about. i haven't managed to work past them, and on bad days it feels like i never will, but i want to. to me, bitterness is about not letting your wounds heal - something to be avoided.

anger is an energy, tho.

― stevie, Friday, 2 March 2007 17:27 (eighteen years ago)

At what point does disappointment become calcified into bitterness?

I think that bitterness differs from disappointment mainly in degree.

A bitter person generally is one who invested a very large amount of their psychic well-being into something that ultimately and completely disappointed them, and this fact has at a stroke rendered a large part of their personal history into one of futility, delusion and waste. This transformation of their past robs them of such a large measure of their self-esteem and self-identity that it becomes a permanent bitterness, because that past can never be changed and its importance seems too great ever to be diminished.

This last bit is why old people seem bitter more often than the young, because the old have a longer past to grieve over, and a shorter future in which to mend the damage.

― Aimless, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

I've never really felt bitter anything. Disappointed now and again, but not to the extent where I begrudge people who have achieved what I wanted to do. I don't begrudge people their bitterness either. PS, I'm not really going anywhere in life and not really minding, so maybe I need to get more bitter.

― jel --, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

and a shorter future in which to mend the damage.

Plus, some of the people you dearly wish to humiliate or kill, are already deafly and publicly flatulent, incontinent or dead.

― Michael White, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

Michael White MOT.

― Aimless, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

It doesn't take any energy at all to be bitter. It takes energy to get past being bitter. I don't always have the energy to be cheerful and forward thinking and hopeful. That takes energy for me.

Umm I get the feeling this is a bit like exercise. If you're out of shape and lethargic, then it takes loads of energy to start getting active. On the other hand, if you're active and in shape, it's easy to keep at it, and actually way more stressful and energy-sapping to stop.

So it becomes a question of which one you'd rather make your default state, and which one you'd like to make tiring and uncomfortable: being tired and lethargic (or bitter, spiteful, and depressed), or being energetic and hearty (or hopeful and content).

We might not all have the time, energy, inclination, or situation to ALWAYS pull ourselves up into the latter, but I'd say it's pretty clearly the thing to shoot for (even if it does occasionally necessitate being corny and wearing unflattering shorts).

― nabisco, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

Nabisco, you know how ILX feels about shorts.

― Laurel, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

They don't make many guy-shorts that don't suck these days, even by "who cares, I'm jogging" standards. I mean, if I'm going to look embarrassing, it's going to be because of my inability to jog 100 yards without getting winded, not my shorts.

They do wonderful things with hot pants, but modern US social norms deny me the opportunity. :(

― nabisco, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

Thank god. Spandex is not a right.

― Laurel, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:03 (eighteen years ago)

I suppose I'm not interested in football, but in why you would continue to invest so much emotion in something which makes you unhappy. It seems counterproductive

And you can't see how this might also apply to any other kind of wallowing in bitterness Kate?

I guess it is easier to advise others than to self counsel sometimes.

― Trayce, Saturday, 3 March 2007 00:07 (eighteen years ago)

Hey Kate, are you yourself a churchgoer? I'm bitter abt RELIGION, actually, more than anything, but I'm thinking of trying to find a pleasant liberal Xtian church w/nice people as I have no social network at all and I want someone to be able to drive me home from the hospital if I get crushed by a truck or the like. Know someone will be there if I'm sick, need advice from older & wiser female mentors, things like that.

The only other manner in which I'm bitter is: if you could describe Charlie Brown as bitter, then I am bitter in that way. In no way do I have a Lucy bitterness. Maybe a touch of Schroeder bitterness.

― Abbott, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:21 (eighteen years ago)

http://gammablog.com/gammablablog/images/4-04/4-15/arugula.jpg

― youn, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:23 (eighteen years ago)

at the same time oh what difference does it make it makes none cos now you have gone

― youn, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:24 (eighteen years ago)

You need to find a Peanuts church!

― Beth Parker, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:24 (eighteen years ago)

If only such a thing existed. Schulz was a goodhearted Xtian, maybe the best one I can think of. What if he thought such a thing was sacrilige? He did not seem to mind that "Gospel of Peanuts" book (IIRC re: his opinion and the book's title).

― Abbott, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:26 (eighteen years ago)

It would certainly be comforting if Linus shared reassuring, bittersweet homilies with me when I was ill.

― Abbott, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:27 (eighteen years ago)

Abbott—Unitarian? They seem the most palatable to me, speaking as an atheist. We went to a Unitarian funeral awhile ago, and God was not mentioned once! The minister was still a windbag, though not as bad as some at other funerals I've been to, who made me downright homicidal with their run-on spoutings of abstruse, boring and irrelevant scripture. Ugh. Feh. Ptooeey. Makes me BITTER.

― Beth Parker, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:29 (eighteen years ago)

yea this is about bitterness not depression. bitterness isn't when you fall in the mud, its when the mud hardens around you and you can't get out anymore but it holds you in place

Surely unhappiness is when you fall in the mud, depression is when the mud hardens around you, and bitterness is when you tell yourself and/or anyone who'll listen "I'm not even going to walk near the mud because last time I only fell over, and other people might be walking on the mud, but they've got better shoes than me, the bastards"?

For me depression triggers bitterness - such a waste of so many years and opportunities that you won't get back, and other people haven't had that (of course they've had their own shit, most people far worse than mine, I realise), and may see yours as flakiness or standoffishness or malingering.

I'd admit to being bitter as hell, but someone might be bored enough to remember who I am, and then there'd be a whole world of shocker-related zings.

― a passing spacecadet, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:33 (eighteen years ago)

I actually made it a goal w/my therapist to visit a Unitarian church, but it is miles & miles away & I have no car. She suggested I call them for a ride, but I feel weird calling a church answering machine and saying, "Hello to please pick me up from house at time of service."

The Unitarian here church has an AWESOME stained glass panel tho:

http://www.uuchurchlc.org/Tombaugh_Window.jpg

"This large stained glass window, situated on the east side of the church, is dedicated to the memory of Clyde W. Tombaugh. It’s position allows New Mexico's beautiful sun to bring the window and the community to life each day. Clyde Tombaugh, who discovered the planet Pluto at Lowell Observatory in 1930, was a dedicated astronomer, a space pioneer and an educator who inspired generations to investigate the cosmos. Clyde and his wife, Patsy, were among the founders of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Las Cruces in 1955. Clyde remained a dedicated patron of the church throughout his life."

― Abbott, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

xpost to Beth natch

― Abbott, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

Maybe they have a bus? A fair number of churchgoers must be elderly non-drivers. You could call when you know for a fact that no one will answer, just to get the recording with info!
And maybe they have a website. That's how we found directions to the Unitarian church where the funeral was. I don't think they even call them "churches," do they?

― Beth Parker, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:51 (eighteen years ago)

They have a website, which is where I found that image. A nice one, too. I know I could do all that but I am shy with strangers and terrified of churches. My boyfriend said we should check out the Episcopal church once and the idea as so shocking I started spontaneously crying. I was raised Mormon hardcore and really burnt by it, I'm always afraid it'll magically fuck with my head. Altho every Unitarian I've met has been kind and level-headed in an unusual and graceful way. Glah blah blah.

― Abbott, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:55 (eighteen years ago)

it'll=a new church will even tho they seem very nice and I really enjoyed the Episcopal service I went to

― Abbott, Saturday, 3 March 2007 02:56 (eighteen years ago)

Maybe a stiff drink before the service would help with the social anxiety.
Seriously, maybe there's a lapsed-Mormon support group in your area. Not that you haven't already checked.

― Beth Parker, Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:18 (eighteen years ago)

Oh ffs, is this one of those churning cycles of threads that I've heard so much about? Here's where the 'bitter' converation started:

It's funny to talk about my "bitterness" because the ironic thing is that it was actually relationships that made me bitter, not being single. Being single is just like having a stone in your shoe - being in a bad relationship is like having nails driven through your feet. Or something.

Bitterness in relationships, as with anything in life, just means that you set expectations higher than attainable levels. It's a self-afflicted condition, not one that is otherwise solvable. Great, you've decided you're bitter about a relationship/job/sports team/friend because they've failed to meet the expectations you believed in. Congrats, you have 'bitterness' because you had faith, set expectations too high, and wanted more out of humanity -- yourself or others -- than was possible. Always *want* more, just don't expect it. Then you'll just get some melancholy, resignation, disappointment, and move. the. fuck. on. instead of deciding that you're "bitter" because life wouldn't live up to your ideals.

― mh, Saturday, 3 March 2007 04:40 (eighteen years ago)

p.s. grain of salt necessary, been drinking, no offense.

― mh, Saturday, 3 March 2007 05:07 (eighteen years ago)

i used to get bitter when considering the following:

<i>'Fortune doesn't favour the brave, nor the great, nor the talented - above all, it favours the assiduous self-publicist.'</i>

pathetic really. being a miserable cunt is so indulgent. it's raging at the universe for evryone else's happiness instead of getting on with making your own.

― jiminey bigpants, Saturday, 3 March 2007 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

duh italics

― jiminey bigpants, Saturday, 3 March 2007 12:07 (eighteen years ago)

tomorrow might bring a beautiful flower, try not to be too afraid to hold it in your hand

― 688, Saturday, 3 March 2007 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

and weirdly it IS fizz, it IS energy. diffuse anger has gotten me out of bed firing before. but it inevitably boomerangs and then you're in depression

unless you catch it first and lance it, express it productively. like art. that's been the only possible positive that i can find. that you take all that bile and create a little taj mahal out of it - then feel purged - it's gone...

― jiminey bigpants, Saturday, 3 March 2007 12:22 (eighteen years ago)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/marthasminions/BeautyTheeIPraise.jpg

you take all that bile and create a little taj mahal out of it

George Grosz to thread!

― Beth Parker, Saturday, 3 March 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

"Bitterness can also be when you're in the meadow and the sun is shining but your eyes keep getting drawn back to the mud, even if you're not mired in it."

This is my experience of bitterness - life is good now but isn't it inevitable that it will soon go to shit? What if I'm happy-go-lucky now and then suddenly realize that I'm too old, and my chances for love, a cool career, travel, and financial stability are way past me? Everyone always assumes their futures will be good, but that's not always the case, so why make that assumption? It's like the anticipation of future suffering makes me bitter in advance about its inevitability so I won't be shocked by it. I think this makes me a less pleasant person, so I am trying to catch myself when I think like that and shut it off early, but like Kate said, it *does* take extra energy.

― Maria, Saturday, 3 March 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

four years pass...

Is anyone here bitter? Has anyone here stopped being bitter?

You've probably all seen me on the co-workers thread and the irrationally angry thread and thought "you're on here way too often, bitterness alert", and it's true. I spend so much of my life feeling aggrieved at other people who seem to get breaks I don't get, get away with things I don't think I would, be liked despite flaws.

And it's not a very productive way to live, not least because 1. well, maybe they do, that's how life is; 2. I'm from a pretty comfortable background and nothing really bad has ever happened to me, I've had my own lucky breaks, etc

(secret bitter-in-itself answer 3. now I am the age at which women statistically earn the most they'll ever earn and if I'm going to get wound up every time someone younger, smarter, better-looking and/or male gets something I wanted or does something I disapprove of and nobody else cares, that is only going to happen more and more. now, obviously I need not to be thinking like that at all, but still: this is only going to get worse if unchecked. but, how?)

― sambal dalek (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 17 June 2011 13:22 (fourteen years ago)

(the statistic is something I read once and don't feel like looking up because I might find a different study which said something less depressing, and I'd like to wallow in the unfairness of the universe instead of checking my facts. Now that's bitter!)

― sambal dalek (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 17 June 2011 13:24 (fourteen years ago)

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