PARALLEL UNIVERSES

Other dimensions are "folded" or "curled" -- so small that there's no room to move in 'em -- only important for tiny balancing of current equations and major issues in beginning of the universe type issues.

I wonder what the parrellel universe ILE is like? I was always led to believe that the number of parrellel universes is infinite, but I might have got that idea from reading too many comics.

I'LL TAKE YOUR BRAIN/BRANE TO ANOTHER DIMENSION

I'LL TAKE YOUR BRAIN/BRANE TO ANOTHER DIMENSION

I'LL TAKE YOUR BRAIN/BRANE TO ANOTHER DIMENSION

PAY CLOSE ATTENTION

more dimensions exist acc. to current theories -- but that's just like, y'know a DIMENSION, like a way to move in space. Parallel universes are what are rilly being ref to when scifi authors bang on about travel to other dimensions, usually (prolly comes from travel THROUGH other dimensions as way to get to other universes, i suppose). as far as i understand, parallel universes are a purely theoretical construct of utility in making certain equations work out -- but the actual existence of these universes is really a mathematical convenience (& yes, by all accts. if there is one parallel, then there are infinite parallel)

(yawn) been there, seen/done/fux0red that ;)

haha this thread exists in a parallel dimension starring johnny vaughan

bucks fizz doc = more confusing the monent you try and asnwer the question why?

Look here, Cornelius, the Gloriana incarnation was the best.

What rubbish mr raggett. best of all was when I had black teeth, lived at the top ov derry & toms, & had loads of kinky sex. Until that bastard frank ruined it all, anyway. Watch out, or I will shake you down with my vibra gun

a universe without johnny vaughan...

count me in. if your calculations allow it.

Bucks Fizz doc was wonderful. I'm quite surprised they took part in something that took such delight in making light of their very real squabble. Best use of Terminator music for comedic effect? The David Brent-ness of those final remarks from David Van Day was awesome.

Watch out, or I will shake you down with my vibra gun

A Cure for Cancer is probably still my favorite of the original four. Bishop Beesley, baby.

Best use of Terminator music for comedic effect?

Best use of Dead Can Dance for comedic effect, certainly.

I missed most of the Horizon doc because it provoked the usual lively discussion about the nature of the scientific method and ESP between me and the missus. I'm Scully, she's Mulder. At first I thought it was a case of a few deterministic hardcases throwing out the idea of a probabilistic universe with the notion that electron != probability cloud, but electron = infinite different positions, all equally true, therefore lots of universes. I don't know whether this was anything to do with what they were saying, because I missed the meaty bit*.

(* - Of course, this being Horizon, there wouldn't be any meaty bit - no attempt to grasp what the concept of extra dimensions means, or discuss the maths or anything).

What a terrible man David Van Day appears to be. Poor Mike Nolan still doesn't look as if he knows quite what's going on.

I'll think you'll find it was Gareth Southgate who should have scored a penalty for England, Gareth Gates is that pop idol bloke.

THANK YOU ALASDAIR.

ahem

I think you'll find that if there were an infinite number of universes, well, there would be just as much likelihood of gareth GATES scoring a penalty for england as gareth SOUTHGATE.

thanks again.

Oh, I see.

I completely agree with you richard j g. Still a great programme tho'.

Also, I wrote down DvD's final remarks, they were that , er, awesome. Here they are in case you missed it:

"Was I a joke before I went into Bucks Fizz? Or was it Bucks Fizz made me a joke? Ask yourself that."

thank you. thank you very much. it's the way he tells them :-)

Hmmmm, last night's documentary. Admittedly I fell asleep halfway through, so perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick, but it seemed to me that this new fangled parallel dimensions theory is rather like an accountant who creates false entries to balance the books so s/he doesn't get stung by the Inland Revenue.

yes, it did seem like that sometimes.

"this doesn't make sense."

"it would make sense if we said there was another dimension."

"let's say there's another dimension."

"okay."

"this makes sense now."

welcome to the wacky world of logic!!

[a => b] => [-b => -a] hurrah!!

That documentary left me quite annoyed. I'm sure they've done the math and all, but it would have been nice to have heard how the physicists had come to their conclusions. As it was, it just seemed too fantastic to believe. They didn't explain it too good. Nice idea, but I don't really believe in science.

like trevor i only saw half (tho a parallel half hah!): impression i get is that the MATH is the only bit they have done so far eg they haf a MODEL which is ahem somewhat complete* and also consistent with known cosmo-physical requirements unsatisfied till now (eg workable version of gravity as fourth "field" as per einstein?) BUT the next stage, the development of experimentally testable propositions which bed this theory down (and make for good TV, as mathematical completeness and consistency do NOT) has not yet come down the pike...

*complete as in does not contain massive Bing Bang-style get-out clause "here all laws as we know them break down" (= "arrr i don't know what i'm talking about do i" kinda, simpsons fans)

yes BING BANG is the korrekt term, BIG BAG is just a vulgar and silly corruption i'll get my p-coat

parallel universe interp can also be rendered, as noted above, with single univers probability fields -- as can most weird counterintuitive things be simply explained by particles which don't behave the way we expect them to. Quantum "action at a distance" for example (which is weird) can also be explained by time-travelling particles (Which is science-fiction, but somehow more intuitive).

omg

There better be one in which i am f@#king rich!

do go there.

:' (

I meant don't go there.

Why can't I go there? I want to be rich godamnit!

such sophistry

There was something on Four about this last night. I read Brief History of Time a while back, so I KNOW about quantum and relitivity and crap like that. They didn't tell me abo-ut string theory at all, which made me sad.

I need a brainiac to tell me what string theory is is simple tersm - the lot on Channel 4 had no idea. Any takers?

if you cant interact with these parallel universes in any way, why waste time thinking about them?
mr. occam, can i borrow your razor? ta.

There are no simple terms for string theory. Best I can do:

Imagine there are lots more spatial dimensions besides the three we can see. Call time a dimension just like the others, and don't worry that it doesn't seem the same. Now imagine that, as much smaller than atoms as atoms are than stars, there are these tiny vibrating strands (or sheets if you prefer m-branes). These make up the subatomic particles that make atoms that make all other material, but that is just the start. They make space itself, and time, and they vibrate in 10, 11 or maybe 26 dimensions. They make all energy and mass and all the forces too. Everything.

It's a very tough theory to prove, in that these things are so far below our range that we can't come up with any way to try to detect them, any more than you can detect electrons with a magnifying glass. So far, science has offered no way of proving any of it, no testable/falsifiable hypotheses, but it is proving a useful way of exploring some knotty problems, including reconciling relativity and quantum theory and other odd things like where mass comes from and why some particles have it and others don't. It's looking like explaining a lot that nothing else has been able to address usefully, which is why it's being so enthusiastically pursued, but it is all only theory at present.

The strings are supposed to be smaller than the Planck length, which makes them unobservable and leads to quantum foaming effects in space and such.

Gawd, it's been so long since I read Greene's book so I can't remember it.

The math apparently works out really elegantly for 12 dimensions and there is a lot of symmetry, which gives scientists erections.

btw. there will be a Nova special re-airing on PBS tomorrow night with Brian Greene talking about all this.

will this one have the CG Einstein too?

Yes, but they made Maxwell shoot first in this one; which is totally lame.

Okay I know nothing about anything, but if the universe is infinitely large wouldn't it have to be infinitely small as well?

yes plus also infinitely middling

infinitely arbitrary.

Also, infinitely boring.

I saw part of the Nova last week with Brian Greene because I kinda know him so I was pestered to watch. But I was too spaced out to understand that shit at all. When he brought up parallel universes though, I knew exactly what he was talking about because of that episode of Red Dwarf.

It's a three part series actually, Greene's Nova thing.

I thought it was a two-parter.

Also, Martin should write science books/articles for laypeople.

Thanks, Lee.

Also, there is no reason to imagine that the universe is infinitely large, even if you accept the concept of infinity. It may be finite but unbounded, in something like the way a sphere might seem to a two-dimensional entity living on it.

stupid damn entities

Yes, perhaps I mean a 2-dimensional entity with limited imagination...

Hi, how are you? i'm looking for a copy of the m-theory, if you could email me a copy i would appreciate it.

thank you.

Did anyone see the Horizon 'Time Travel' Edition in December?
It started off by looking at all the usual theories then ended up concluding we might all be robots created and controlled by insane computer programmers in the future. I thought it was irresponsible sci-fi gunk, anyone think any differently?

Didn't see it - but there are some good theories of time travel in universes not like ours, but obeying the same laws. I expect if you google for Godelian universes you might find some good examples.

I'd be interested if someone has a good explanation of m-branes that can be emailed around! I've read a fair amount and watched TV shows, and I did maths at Cambridge so I'm reasonably good at grasping things generally, but I only have a very tenuous grip on this.

omg

why would there b just one universe suited just for our living only? That is simply nonsense. What makes us so special? Without going into details, the multiverse is the best solution as of 2days science community, and if u don't think it is, it mostly due to ur lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject.

There's a multiverse in your grocer's freezer!