I have, like, no gay friends in town.

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So this one gay friend of mine is trying to set me up with another gay friend of his. I mean, sure, whatever. And he's doing this by hosting a "gay Trivial Pursuit party". Again, fine. And he says to me, "If you know any gay guys who would be interested, invite them." (Perhaps for him to hook up with? Unclear.)

So I'm telling this to my other gay friend when I realize... that's the entire list of my gay friends in town. The two of them. I have a few friends of friends who I never see on their own, and I have some friends who I haven't talked to in over a year, and things like that, but basically in my wide circle of friends in town, out of the, what, dozens, the hundred people I hang out with regularly in this city, none of them are gay.

Men. There's at least one lesbian in the group that I can think of.

Anyway. Suddenly this seems really odd. I didn't feel a lack before, but now...

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 05:22 (nineteen years ago)

I suppose there's also my friend's six-year-old (who drums for us sometimes) that my friend has suspicions (or aspirations?) about but clearly it's too soon to tell and he's just not bear-ish enough for my friend.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 05:23 (nineteen years ago)

most of my gay friends exist on the periphery of my social sphere also (with a couple of exceptions). i'm not really bothered about it, myself; are you looking to fix your situation? and does your friend's six-year-old know how to whip up a good cocktail?

a gay triv pursuit party sounds pretty fun tho! any chance to meet smart dudez is a good one

― impudent harlot, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:01 (nineteen years ago)

Same thing here. I have only one gay friend, and even that guy I've only hung out with once in the last year (and then for a couple of hours at a party). Sure, a couple of co-workers are gay, but other than that, nada. This was the case in the last town I lived in as well.

Come to think of it, my one gay friend has no gay male friends besides me. Most of his closest friends are straight college buddies and women. He does, however, have a husband.

I kind of think the reason for this is the same as why some straight men don't make friends with women--they consider women to be there for romance/sex/dating and men to be for friendship.

― Jesse, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:02 (nineteen years ago)

(is there a handy term for when a gay man has mostly straight male friends? i thought at first it was "stag hag" but that's actually the inverse)

― impudent harlot, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:02 (nineteen years ago)

I tend to call myself a hetero-hag.

― Jesse, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:08 (nineteen years ago)

Though my friends are pretty equally men and women.

― Jesse, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:08 (nineteen years ago)

I just think that of all the people in my music circle or in my poetry circle, at least one of them would be gay.

I'm not really caring about rectifying it, or not. It doesn't matter so much to me. Except I hadn't really thought about it in a while. I had a few other gay friends in town, but they moved.

I'm happy to meet smart and interesting people, though, so I'm looking forward to the party.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:10 (nineteen years ago)

As for me, one reason there are a couple of reasons I would like to get some gay friends:

-Meeting Mr. Right. My straight friends have almost no contact with gay people besides me, so my dating pool is limited to bar patrons.

-Networking/Community. I would like to be in some way a part of a community, and I am thinking I would like to work in an AIDS service organization. Also, I wonder if a friendship with a homo wouldn't be mutually rewarding in some way that other friendships can't be.

― Jesse, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:20 (nineteen years ago)

When I brought this up with my party-throwing friend, we talked about it a bit and he said "Aren't there things that you can discuss with gay friends that they'll understand which your straight friends won't?"

And I had to say, well, no. My gay friends tend to say things like "why don't you just shut up and go grab that cock!" which isn't as helpy to hear as you might imagine.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:24 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, in one sense, i do relate to gays in certain ways that i don't other people (as far as discussing situations particular to the gay sphere goes, ie sex), but in other ways, that world kind of still feels foreign to me. most of my gay friends (ie those peripheral ones i mentioned earlier) are verrrry forward sexually in a way that i'm definitely not, and are interested in entirely different things as well, and i imagine they have about as much vested interest in something like the history of the communist regime in hungary as i do in fashion week. (not to suggest that they're shallow for thinking this way, both are exhilarating and important for different reasons but i've always found the fashion world and the attitudes and discourses around it somewhat impenetrable for reasons i haven't really worked out yet)

― impudent harlot, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:37 (nineteen years ago)

"that world kind of still feels foreign to me" = i had 0 gay friends until college

― impudent harlot, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:37 (nineteen years ago)

Oooh ooh did someone say bear-ish? Those are the best. I can't find ANY good ones though, and I live like an hour from NYC. All the one's I've met are too queeny/femme and not really manly-man enough :-/

― Stevie D, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:41 (nineteen years ago)

Apparently my friend is an "otter", which is a great term that I had never heard before today.

Harlot, who were you previously on ILX? I am so confused by the new name schemes.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:54 (nineteen years ago)

i was just "joseph". i haven't worked out how to specify that in the name part yet

― impudent harlot, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 06:55 (nineteen years ago)

Oh all is clear now. Thank you.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 07:00 (nineteen years ago)

What is "otter"? Just hairy, but skinny? They're good too.

― Stevie D, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 07:18 (nineteen years ago)

I have, like, no ~~gay~~ friends in town.

― strgn, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 08:27 (nineteen years ago)

Otters pursue bears, I think? Do they have to be hairy as well?

I gained a greater proportion of gay men friends when I started drinking more, not sure why. (And I don't mean drinking and grabbing cocks, either.) But I still mostly have parenting friends who have less time than ever for me, and my Noisedude straight friends who are too young and disreputable to be parents yet.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

[i/]is there a handy term for when a gay man has mostly straight male friends?[/i]

Ha! My situation. I have a handful of gay friends, c'est tout. It doesn't help that Miami, while certainly proud of its hot-boy-per-square-mile ratio, is a zero culturally. My straight friends are better read, listen to more music, and have a better sense of irony than the gay guys I've hung out with or dated; in my case gay men exist to be fucked, period.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

a handful is a lot, isn't it?

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

According to the Gay Men's Handbook, shouldn't the percentage be 70-30?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

I've got only a couple of close friends who are gay, but well -- that's just it. They're a couple. So besides the fact that I get along wonderfully with both of them, it tends to make things difficult when they get drunk and start screaming at each other.

I tend to attract more than my share of male bi-curious friends, which sometimes works out to my advantage, but often just leaves me with unrequited lust.

― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

Oh Elmo, male bi-curious friends... sounds like drama! Do not want.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

It only results in drama if / after I manage to sleep with them. ;\

― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

I have no gay male friends and am just a very casual acquaintance of a lesbian. I do find that strange, to be honest.

― Pleasant Plains, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

I think different people have different meanings for otter. This friend of mine in particular is shorter, hairy, thin, and bear-chasing.

-Meeting Mr. Right. My straight friends have almost no contact with gay people besides me, so my dating pool is limited to bar patrons.

Some of my straight friends have far more gay friends than I do, although usually they're in couples.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

The whole "animal" thing is so ridiculous... bears, cubs, otters, pigs... what's wrong with "sorta stocky hairy dudes" or "sorta skinny hairy dudes" or whatever? I mean doesn't it sound deranged to say something like, "Yeah, I'm an otter; I chase bears"....

― Stevie D, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

Limiting one's pursuits to a specific class of "animal" always seemed creepy, if not deranged, to me.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

BEARS AND CHICKENS AND PIGS
HAY HAY HAY

― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

Yeh, I pretty much stop with "bear." It's descriptive and pretty self-explanatory. I've also heard of wolves--no idea what that might be.

― Jesse, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

otters!? I've never heard that one

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

A bearded (straight) friend of mine was hit on by a guy who declared "I'll be your otter..." In London!

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

Most of the guys I date turn out to be rats.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

This might sound bad but I am actually somewhat reassured by this thread, as a straight person - yes, I know, this is not the thread for me - who finds it hard to meet people of any sexuality or dating possibility level. A friend is always mentioning meeting new bearish friends, and occasionally it seems like he must go out or join net communities and people instantly introduce themselves with "hey, you're gay and bearded or dressed kind of indie-cub, we must hang out".

(I did realize it couldn't really be like that, and the actual relationships/hookups he's looking for don't seem to turn up any more often than the drinking acquaintances I'm hoping for, and his with considerably more drama in the process, but sometimes I forget.)

― a passing spacecadet, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

The Otter Guy won't let me around, to talk to my kids...

― Pleasant Plains, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

"indie-cub" is cracking me up. like if there was a venn diagram between "bears" and "indie kids" the overlap would be filled with beer and flannel.

― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:12 (nineteen years ago)

Bestiality is a sin, people.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

the only subcultural oddity that really creeps me out is the crypto-incest fantasy implied by "daddies" and "sons"

― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

As for me, one reason there are a couple of reasons I would like to get some gay friends:

jesse, a friend of mine was telling me and some other friends that we must know some gay men in chicago and that he's taking it personally that we have yet to introduce him to any of them. so you just say the word and i'll set up a meeting. if it gets him to stop hitting on me all the better.

― chicago kevin, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:19 (nineteen years ago)

I have no gay friends, except this one guy my friends and I assume is gay but he hasn't said anything. I guess it'd be nice to have some, since I feel I may be missing something. Don't know what that "something" could possibly be, though.

― Ivan, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:31 (nineteen years ago)

Sounds about right, elmo. Don't forget the rich seam of trucker hats and 0-gauge black ear studs down the middle. According to the photos of latest crushes I'm invited to see every so often, anyway...

(Oh yeah, I was going. Good luck meeting people to everyone here who thinks they need it.)

― a passing spacecadet, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

(is there a handy term for when a gay man has mostly straight male friends? i thought at first it was "stag hag" but that's actually the inverse)

It seems to me that a gay person would have to actively be rejecting friendships with straight people in order to maintain a social network with a majority of gay people.

― Eric H., Wednesday, 21 March 2007 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

There was a vivacious gay bar scene in Boise, but all boys. Then one day I found the secret lesbian hangout: the Denny's. Packed with adorable babydykes! I wanted to take them home and put them all on my shelf. It was, somehow, an overwhelming relief.

― Abbott, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

That doesn't make sense at all, Eric.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 20:14 (nineteen years ago)

I think Eric's theorem generally makes sense if that person is not living in an urban gayborhood.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

Well no, because it assumes that friendships are offered to a person to take or reject, as opposed to most friendships involving some level of concerted outreach on your part. It needn't involve "actively" rejecting straight friendship; it could just mean making your particular outreach only in certain directions.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

No, having met the sorts of gay men who only have gay friends, I think Eric is more or less OTM.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:23 (nineteen years ago)

Or to put it another way: The sense of "it's not gay so why should I care about it?" is more about active rejection than about being really focused on teh gay.

― Casuistry, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:27 (nineteen years ago)

Hi there! i'm in pretty much the same position myself and the fact that the majority of ILX gays seem to be says a lot about us, of course, but i'm not sure what that is. i have a number of lapsed gay friends, but none of them were close friends anyway. my only close gay friend is my boyfriend. we have never set foot in a gay bar together but i've been thinking i'd like to go and have a look at some gay people some time soon.

― jed_, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 23:10 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 792 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

The last time I was in a Shea bathroom was 20 years ago. I just remember there being a really long line.

― Casuistry, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

Ya but CBGB's bathroom was legendary. I loved peeing in it.

― Stevie D, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

but I had to shit. No one ever shat at CBGB's.

..did they?

― Stevie D, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

On stage, even.

I got e-mail today for an event for "YoHos". Young hos?!

― Casuistry, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:11 (nineteen years ago)

Well, apparently it's "young homos", which... yeah.

The e-mail was funny. They're events for queer guys under 30. But they're quick to point out that other than that, they don't discriminate.

― Casuistry, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:13 (nineteen years ago)

the fave phrase for those things is "just a preference"

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

Is this thread dying? Shall we make it a tradition like DC and UK and Chicago and etc threads?

― Stevie D, Thursday, 26 April 2007 04:24 (nineteen years ago)

It must live.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 26 April 2007 04:29 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sure it'll live, but I don't have something gay to say every day.

Although: Random PBR-swilling scruffy white trash hipster with the beer gut at the store last night? You were not hot. But your friend, the PBR-swilling scruffy Mexican-ish hipster with the beer gut? He was kinda cute. Although he was, at the very least, friends with you, so points off for that. I don't know how that works, sorry!

― Casuistry, Thursday, 26 April 2007 05:09 (nineteen years ago)

oh shit i bet that was my friend miguel

― river wolf, Thursday, 26 April 2007 05:18 (nineteen years ago)

he's let himself go lately ;_;

― river wolf, Thursday, 26 April 2007 05:18 (nineteen years ago)

yeah but then he becomes a chubby and all the chubby chasers love him. You see, it all works out in the realm of teh gay. There is no "letting yourself go".

― Stevie D, Thursday, 26 April 2007 05:50 (nineteen years ago)

I'm pro letting yourself go. Or really I'm pro not having much to let go in the first place. Although I'm a bit against letting yourself be totally gone.

― Casuistry, Thursday, 26 April 2007 05:51 (nineteen years ago)

got a dude's digits tonight aww yeah

― impudent harlot, Thursday, 26 April 2007 06:53 (nineteen years ago)

not his fingers I hope.

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 26 April 2007 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

Depends on where he got them.

― Casuistry, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

Q: What did the leper say to ~~the prostitute~~ impudent harlot?
A: Keep the tip.

― Stevie D, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:49 (nineteen years ago)

btw, I second Stevie D's notion of having a recurring gay thread

― elmo argonaut, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:48 (nineteen years ago)

A recurring gay thread is good, especially since I'm not sure how I feel about this thread's title--it seems like this is a refuge for alienated gays to find the gay friends they, like, don't have in town. So maybe the next one should be something stated positively, like: Come Explore Your Homosexuality In This Thread. Or This is the Thread Where I Am Gay. TITTWIAG.

― Jesse, Friday, 27 April 2007 04:59 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=40&threadid=53424#unread

― Casuistry, Friday, 27 April 2007 07:51 (nineteen years ago)

Or, Now That's What I Call Gay! Volume Two

― Casuistry, Friday, 27 April 2007 07:52 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

so i just discovered this thread b/c of the What do You Look Like thread, and i must admit that i have like no gay friends in town. OK i have 1 but he's actually out of town until the end of next month. slut.

― Surmounter, Monday, 25 June 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

three years pass...

So I started going to my brother's church so I can expand my social life. He said his church was not too "conservative". So one day we were all out to dinner after some church function and one person in our group thought it would be cute if x (openly gay) hooked up with y (who is in the closet?). Saying this right in front of x.

I am thinking of leaving church again, I just think religion (even so-called "tolerant" ones) and gays maybe don't go together very well, a few people always ruin it for everyone else. I am sick of people not entirely comfortable with homosexuality sticking their nose in gays' business.

― Possession of Stolen Goods (pharoah slanders) (u s steel), Friday, 21 January 2011 18:29 (fifteen years ago)

So X and Y were both there? What did X do and what did Y do? And was no one like "uhhhh that's fucked up of you to say" ?

― her hipster hair dude is making me pale ale (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 January 2011 18:39 (fifteen years ago)

idk maybe the person who said it didnt realise that y was not out or gay or w/e and their blitheness implied that the closet as a barrier was sortof nbd w/n that soc. space.

― plax (ico), Friday, 21 January 2011 18:44 (fifteen years ago)

― Casuistry, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Q: What did the leper say to the prostitute impudent harlot?
A: Keep the tip.

― Stevie D, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
btw, I second Stevie D's notion of having a recurring gay thread

― elmo argonaut, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
A recurring gay thread is good,

― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 21 January 2011 18:47 (fifteen years ago)

awww

― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 21 January 2011 18:47 (fifteen years ago)

except for the ppl who eventually left it! (no names plz)

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 21 January 2011 18:48 (fifteen years ago)

It is kind of hard to hang out with someone who is usually either trying to fuck you and / or your date. Also I gave up on trying to be cool to colorful queers. I mean its cool if you are drunk or watching a drag show or whatever but it grows old very quickly and I am not that good at masking my emotions when sober. That said, I feel lonely and accepted a man-date tonight with a newish gay dude I met. He already confessed hes been into me for years and I made full disclosure that I am nearly autistic / a bit of an unintentional asshole. Lets hope this ends well.

― Umm, I think that's my glass. (laser precise purpose maker era), Friday, 21 January 2011 19:05 (fifteen years ago)

X was there, Y is not a party animal as you can probably tell so no. x seemed kind of disappointed, sometimes you don't know how clueless people are until you spend time with them socially. y is one of those "please don't make a big deal out of my sexuality" well ok, everyone has to get along....wouldn't be x's type though.

― Possession of Stolen Goods (pharoah slanders) (u s steel), Friday, 21 January 2011 20:25 (fifteen years ago)

these threads have been rolling for almost four years now! just had some fun trying to remember whose digits i got on april 25, 2007

― rufus is a tity boi (donna rouge), Friday, 21 January 2011 20:30 (fifteen years ago)

this is reminding me of my best gay friend from school who used to tell all his stories about mr.x and mr.y and i used to go crazy and be like "look, i know these ppl, the fn algebra isnt helping"

― plax (ico), Friday, 21 January 2011 20:30 (fifteen years ago)

(i have never heard the term "otter" before this thread, like, ever)

― impudent harlot, Monday, March 26, 2007 8:25 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark

loooooooooool

― rufus is a tity boi (donna rouge), Friday, 21 January 2011 20:31 (fifteen years ago)

weird i didnt post on the first thread bc i remember reading it when it at the time.

― plax (ico), Friday, 21 January 2011 20:33 (fifteen years ago)

three months pass...

My second post on this thread seems sort of out of character now.

― scissorlocks and the three bears (Eric H.), Thursday, 12 May 2011 17:06 (fifteen years ago)

Eric, you just need a 3-day bacchanal somewhere.

― resistance does not require a firearm (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 May 2011 17:17 (fifteen years ago)

feelin this thread title tbh

― rrrrap critic Komsomol (Lamp), Thursday, 12 May 2011 17:17 (fifteen years ago)

three years pass...

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/young-gay-blogger-gay-men-over-30-should-stay-out-clubs

― It's Autumn Sunrise (Eric H.), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 02:35 (eleven years ago)

(i have never heard the term "otter" before this thread, like, ever)

― impudent harlot, Monday, March 26, 2007 8:25 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark

loooooooooool

― rufus is a tity boi (donna rouge), Friday, January 21, 2011 3:31 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

loooooooooool

― DERE is no DERE DERE (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 02:49 (eleven years ago)

It's true this fella might be dateless because his sentences and punctuation suck.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 02:50 (eleven years ago)

Was I doomed to a life of bottle service and boyfriends half my age because I couldn’t settle down and start a family at an appropriate time.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 02:50 (eleven years ago)

Jesus, I am so fucking glad I'm not 19 anymore!

― DERE is no DERE DERE (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 03:06 (eleven years ago)

I will go in such clubs only to set fires

― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 03:38 (eleven years ago)

For those of you playing along at home: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_Lounge_arson_attack

― It's Autumn Sunrise (Eric H.), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 04:04 (eleven years ago)

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/08/30/rufus-wainwright-im-glad-i-dont-have-more-gay-fans-gay-men-have-terrible-taste-in-music/

― a guy named Christian White who represents the typical white Christian (Eric H.), Monday, 1 September 2014 15:41 (eleven years ago)

as a gay man with terrible taste he's otm about his music

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 September 2014 15:42 (eleven years ago)

I wonder if Rupert Everett was even asked if he wants to abdicate his homophobic bitch throne yet.

― a guy named Christian White who represents the typical white Christian (Eric H.), Monday, 1 September 2014 16:12 (eleven years ago)

and I say that as a guy named Bitch Homophobe who represents the typical homophobic bitch

― a guy named Christian White who represents the typical white Christian (Eric H.), Monday, 1 September 2014 16:13 (eleven years ago)

who has terrible taste in music

― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 September 2014 16:51 (eleven years ago)

Your feeble brain can't even begin to comprehend my music.

http://www.edochess.ca/batgirl/Sergei_Prokofiev.jpg

― a guy named Christian White who represents the typical white Christian (Eric H.), Monday, 1 September 2014 17:29 (eleven years ago)

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