what places are really called vs what they are *colloquially* called.

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does this happen much round yr way? when a road, an area, a shopping centre or whatever has an official name that nobody ever uses and an unofficial one that all the locals use?

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 09:54 (nineteen years ago)

What, like "Union Street" in Reading?

or "Smelly Alley" as we all know it?

― Mark G, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 09:56 (nineteen years ago)

I want to find out how common this is. Literally sparked a moment ago when my colleague asked me what the local shopping centre was called (he's giving directions to someone on the phone)

"Cowley Centre" I replied. Then, "well, Templars Square officially, but Cowley Centre if you want ppl to know what yr talking about"

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 09:56 (nineteen years ago)

We have a shop down the street. Everyone called it "Voddekot" (Rag place). They sell fabrics. But the owners considered this to be derogatory (?) and completely revamped the place and wanted their clients to call it by its proper name. It lost a good chunk of their clients soon after the restyling.

― nathalie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 09:58 (nineteen years ago)

The shopping centre here is officially called Freshney Place, but everyone calls it The Precinct.

There's a street in Hull, Chanterlands Avenue, that I've never heard anyone call by its full name apart from when giving directions to strangers. It's normally just Chants Ave.

― Forest Pines, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 09:59 (nineteen years ago)

Platt Waz (Platt Bridge), Wigan. I still haven't quite worked out why it's known as that.

― peteR, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:02 (nineteen years ago)

no-one calls where mark lives 'grandpont' btw.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:09 (nineteen years ago)

in cambridge the council has devised names like 'brunswick' and 'riverside' for certain areas, which no-one uses or ever has done. like hillmarton/holloway (or whatever it was).

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:10 (nineteen years ago)

haha, that's coz I live in Cowley!

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:16 (nineteen years ago)

Was Cowley the area named after the monks, or were the monks named after Cowley?

(I was always convinced they were called the Cowley Fathers after Father Cowley, but this may be a fiction.)

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:16 (nineteen years ago)

ok wvs, no-one calls grandpont grandpont.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:17 (nineteen years ago)

monks after Cowley, specifically Cowley St. John, also known as Church Cowley.

I have never even heard of Father Cowley. There is a Professor Cowley somewhere at ox uni tho.

There is a suburb of Oxford called Rose Hill and I have often wondered if there is a Rose Hill living there.

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:19 (nineteen years ago)

wikipedia say the one guy that quit talk bollox

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:20 (nineteen years ago)

behind harvard square T stop: "the pit"
officially called: N/A

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:22 (nineteen years ago)

How about roads where "The" is added semi-arbitrarily? "The London Road" has a degree of logic - it's the road that leads to London, as well as being called London Road. But there are loads of others - The King's Road, for example (snobbery?), The Upper Richmond Road (where I live - to differentiate from Lower Richmond Road, maybe?), and others I'm sure.

― Mark C, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:22 (nineteen years ago)

So the Cowley Fathers were only established in 1866?!??! My god, I thought they were way older than that. How did they get so many ancient monkish books, then? I feel cheated.

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:22 (nineteen years ago)

in Belfast it seems the 'the' is obligatory -- at least as far as the bbc is concerned: it's always The Falls Road or The Shankhill Road.

my school had lots of ancient religious books and that was only established in 1967! that was coz someone called Archdeacon Pink donated em in 1975 (as it said on a sheet on the ifc of each).

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:25 (nineteen years ago)

No, the The is quite logical - Edgeware Road is a road named after Edgeware (which may or may not be in the place). The Edgeware Road is a road that goes *to* Edgeware.

I quite like "The Dip" as no one calls it "The Dip" except the locals and local papers.

We're not going to get into Estate Agent manufactured places, though, are we?

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:25 (nineteen years ago)

in London of course there are lots of London Transport manufactured places. Like Oakwood, for example, which was called Enfield West when the station opened.

The W4 bus goes to somewhere called Oakthorpe Park, a complete invention as you can't put 'the slip road at the foot of Chequers Way next to the North Circular' on the front of a bus.

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

wikipedia doesn't say that anyone calls grandpont grandpont... they don't.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:30 (nineteen years ago)

See also tube stations in areas other than what they're named after - Dollis Hill tube for instance is in Dudden Hill, but now people think that is Dollis Hill cos the tube is there. Kilburn tube is in Brondesbury, are there others?

― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

Also in Hull, everybody in the town calls "Whitefriargate" "Whiteforgate".

On a slightly different note, There's a point after you get so far into Birmingham that many of the road signs stop saying Birmingham or City Centre but "Town" instead.

― T B, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

In Helsinki there's a park next to a church commonly known as "Plague Park", since a lot of plague victims were once buried there. I think majority of people don't even know it's real name.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

do you pronounce the e in Brondesbury or not? never heard anyone say it.

genuine locals get rather upset when newbies and stoodies refer to the Iffley Road and Cowley Road areas as Iffley and Cowley, rather than the correct (but boring) East Oxford.

Nobody of course calls the Abingdon Road area (which is one other name that Grandpont is called, tho not to its exclusion as The One seems to think) Abingdon, coz Abingdon's a town five miles to the south.

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

The well known Rotunda de Boavista is actually called Praça Mouzinho de Albuquerque.

SO NOW YOU KNOW

― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

"genuine locals get rather upset when newbies and stoodies refer to the Iffley Road and Cowley Road areas as Iffley and Cowley, rather than the correct (but boring) East Oxford."

we-ell, yeah, kind of; but both of those areas have been inhabited by students for so long that in a way i think they have a right! but then cowley road is much longer than the 'cowley road' referred to by students, which extends about as far as the bingo hall, or perhaps even just the bullingdon arms.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:21 (nineteen years ago)

haha, and Ox Uni students still say "don't go down the Cowley Road" to each other, whilst shuddering with foreboding.

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:23 (nineteen years ago)

27 posts and nobody's put this up? for shame!

http://www.popboks.com/img/albumi/richardhawley.jpg

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:32 (nineteen years ago)

Residents of hamburg call the Reeperbahn der Kiez which actually just translates as "the neighbourhood" but everyone there knows what they mean, cf The West End of London which isn't in West London as most people know it.

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:35 (nineteen years ago)

The big Melbourne Exhibition Centre here is referred to by everyone as "Jeff's Shed". Jeff (Kennett) was the state premier at the time it was built and the place is a big ugly modernist metal...thingy.

― Trayce, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

do you pronounce the e in Brondesbury or not? never heard anyone say it.

Grandpont Genie on Wednesday, 28 March 2007 10:36 (1 hour ago)

bar owners hope not

― Bocken Social Scene, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

how would you pronounce the 'e' in it anyway?

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:55 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know, like Bron-des-bury I suppose. 4 syllables instead of 3.

― Bocken Social Scene, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

brondesbury only has two syllables though!

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:03 (nineteen years ago)

"Bronze-Bree"?

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:03 (nineteen years ago)

Thinking about the Bury/Bree pronounciation thing, how is the city of Bury pronounced?

― Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

exactly! although you can voice the d a bit if you like.

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

Bury = berry

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

It took 20 years for Swindon Council to admit that nobody knew where the hell County Islands roundabout was or called it that when asked for directions and change the signs to say "The Magic Roundabout".

No, the The is quite logical - Edgeware Road is a road named after Edgeware (which may or may not be in the place). The Edgeware Road is a road that goes *to* Edgeware.

Yeah, I was trying to work out if this was the sole factor in the "The" or if it was also a function of size/importance/usefulness on foot, which in a smaller place comes with being an arterial road out of somewhere named after the other end anyway, but maybe not in the placename patchwork of London. Mark's Falls Road example goes out of the centre through the Falls district past Falls Park, then changes name; same for Shankill I think. There's some other centre-to-suburb roads named after local geography which take a "the" ("the Cavehill Rd" but always "University Rd", hm!), and the main roads out of the centre are named after other towns (Antrim, Lisburn...) and also take a "the", same as in Oxford.

Now what about which streets get to drop the street name (older folks talking of "the High" and "the Broad" in Oxford; not sure of a Belfast example since while, say, "go down Botanic and turn left" = Botanic Ave it's also the name of a whole area) and how confusing it is when they are also (potentially the-dropping) roads named after their destination...

genuine locals get rather upset when newbies and stoodies refer to the Iffley Road and Cowley Road areas as Iffley and Cowley

...yesthat.

(considers reviving the Oxford thread for local placename chatter including "what determines whether someone says 'Charwell' v 'Churwell' or 'Oseney' v 'Ozney' and which should I do oh no wah [fear of obvious class upbringing giveaway angst]" (I thought Churwell was a student not-from-round-here thing but then someone from the council said it on TV and I worried about conspicuous middeclassness, but then everyone I knew at Cherwell school called it Charwell and calling them middle class = far too pot-kettle. Anyway I am happy with where I stand on that one but Osney is worrying me lately))

― a passing spacecadet, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:11 (nineteen years ago)

it's definitely Oze knee.

― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

Other Hull streets: Cott Road (Cottingham), Bev Road (Beverley).

There's an alley in Grimsby that I don't even know the proper name of, but everyone calls "Gas Alley", because it runs along the old gas works. Famous child-killer 1an Huntl3y sexually assaulted a teenager there once.

in London of course there are lots of London Transport manufactured places

Before either London Transport or the Metropolitan Railway: Clapham Junction was nowhere near Clapham when built, but sounds a bit posher than Battersea Junction.

― Forest Pines, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:28 (nineteen years ago)

"The Magic Roundabout"

There is one of these in Colchester, too: One massive roundabout surrounded by about six mini ones. The mini ones you have to go round clockwise, but you can traverse around the massive one either way. It's not half as confusing as it sounds, but it's still a pain in the arse. Again, no idea what its real name is.

― peteR, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

Charwell and Oze-knee.

I wonder if there'll be a new generation of today's kids who grow up calling it Templar's Square (which is a nicer name, and has great historical connections as it's very close to the site of the Knights Templar in Cowley), or whether they will forever refer to it as Cowley Centre because that's what their parents did. I suspect the latter.

― C J, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

That roundabout sounds a nightmare, Pete! If people are whizzing around it in all directions, it's probably called "Scrapheap Challenge".

― C J, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

Stadio Giuseppe Meazza to thread.

― Mark C, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

oh man, "char-well". i call it that. i wrote for it, we all called it that, it was just the done thing.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

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