locking up the sick

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― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:34 (eighteen years ago)

what do you think? also, please note where you are from.

― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:35 (eighteen years ago)

Ooh, we've come so far from the days when we used to lock plague victims and their entire families (whether infected or not) in their houses to die.

(What does where I'm from have to do with anything?)

Since he appears to be America, I wonder if he has health insurance - and if that would affect his incarceration.

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:37 (eighteen years ago)

i want to see if people on different sides of the atlantic have different opinions

― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

i doubt that having health insurance or not would affect his incarceration. the article states that he neglected to wear masks in public.

― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:54 (eighteen years ago)

honestly, that didn't sound so bad to me because i was imagining forced hospitalization somewhere for treatment, but no, the guy's in a jail cell with no telephone, television, or contact with anyone. it's not just for treatment, and not just to protect the public, it's actual punishment, which doesn't seem necessary to me. (and i'm from the us.)

― Maria, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

If he had good health insurance, he'd be locked up in some fancy intensive care isolation suite of a posh hotel with nurses feeding him through a plastic bubble. Not in jail.

But I'm just saying that coz I'm a smug British.

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

If he is genuinely likely to be putting shedloads of people in serious risk of infection from a virtually untreatable disease then I don't see much wrong with quarantining him. But seriously, locking him up in a jail cell without access to a shower WTF?

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:59 (eighteen years ago)

Why can't he have a TV, radio, and computer? That just seems cruel.

― Jenny, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:59 (eighteen years ago)

And the shower thing, too. Let the man shower!

― Jenny, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:59 (eighteen years ago)

(Just what we need, an American vs British thread that also involves healthcare)

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:59 (eighteen years ago)

the weird thing about being curious about the british versus american angle is that there isn't a single person i can think of on the board who would condone the way this man is being treated so it's kind of a dumb angle.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

I think people with dangerous drug resistant infectious diseases should be isolated. I think the man in the article above is being treated unfairly and inhumanely despite his refusal to wear masks.

I am from the UK and I don't see how there could be a UK/US divide over this.

― onimo, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

What if the TB pathogen got in the water? It would have to be sterilised after he showered! Jail doesn't have facilities like that.

I'm trying to remember what happened to Typhoid Mary... she was worse because she was a carrier, but refused to stop working IN FOOD PREPARATION. Someone like that deserves to be locked up for attempted murder. < /Daily Mail Reader >

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

County health authorities obtained a court order to lock him up as a danger to the public because he failed to take precautions to avoid infecting others.

compare this to criminal cases where HIV+ people are charged with knowingly infecting others.

I don't understand the no phone, computer stuff but there could be more backstory there not covered in the article.

If he was told he must do something to protect others he came into contact with and he refused, I think his detention is justified.

― Ms Misery, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Jail doesn't have facilities like that.

Then he probably shouldn't be in jail. Locked up somewhere, perhaps, but in a facility better suited to deal with his condition.

I don't think Typhoid Mary knew she had typhoid, or knew that she was spreading it to others by continuing to work.

― Jenny, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:10 (eighteen years ago)

i wasn't necessarily looking at the us/uk divide, there are other coutries besides britain in europe you know!

― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:10 (eighteen years ago)

i agree that it's pretty hard to justify the terms of his incarceration - it'sbeyond debate - but there are other questions. don't get mad!

― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

but what would a US/Europe divide hinge on?

― blueski, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:12 (eighteen years ago)

The authorities were certainly aware that she was infected! She was quarantined twice! She refused to acknowledge that she was infected, and refused to stop working as a cook.

If that's not criminal negligence... I dunno. This is more akin to HIV+ people getting charged for knowingly infecting others, though, so possibly a red herring.

Does incarcerated dude at least admit he's got a highly contagious disease?

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:13 (eighteen years ago)

Don't they have sanitariums for people with TB? Or have they gone the way of the monocle?

― brownie, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

I don't believe there are TB hospitals anymore.

― Ms Misery, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

what if it happened to you?

― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

It would suck.

― onimo, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

Kate - Ah, I did not know. Well, that was pretty obnoxious of her then, you are correct.

― Jenny, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:27 (eighteen years ago)

If I had TB or something simliar and was told to take precautions for exposing others (masks, etc) I would follow them. As I'm sure everyone else here probably would.

― Ms Misery, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:28 (eighteen years ago)

I would do my freaking best to educate myself about the disease, and the risks to the public, and take every care - if it involved wearing surgical masks, or being voluntarily quarantined - and *certainly* never go around saying dumb things like "Where I come from, the doctors don't wear masks," he said. "Plus, I was 26 years old, you know. Nobody told me how TB works and stuff." which really make me lose any kind of sympathy for him.

A quick google or a trip to a public library could have told him all he needed to know about "how TB works and stuff."

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:28 (eighteen years ago)

Even naive ignorant assholes should be given access to basic sanitation.

― onimo, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

Is there any indication whether this is a long term thing or they intend to move him somewhere adequate if he doesn't get better or die?

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:36 (eighteen years ago)

i think he would be detained whether he followed doctor's orders or not, but he would be treated much better if he cooperated.

― lfam, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

Americans being Americans, I imagine they'll have some long argument about who has to pay for his maintainace in a quarantine environment before they do anything about his conditions. (Remember - in the US, healthcare is not free.)

In which case, he'll probably end up being sold to a pharmeceutical company so they can experiment on him.

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:39 (eighteen years ago)

Why should his behaviour have any bearing on how he's being treated? Assuming there's no actual law against this.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:40 (eighteen years ago)

As an Irish person I should add what we would do is lock the man up in a room made of salt, having skinned him. However he would of course be given the customary cashmere loincloth and U2 ipod.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

but what would a US/Europe divide hinge on?

Some Europeans think that all Americans should be locked up, so they would probably approve.

― StanM, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

I think they should all put down their guns and go on a diet!

― blueski, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

Also stop being so racist and learn where Europe is!

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 15:24 (eighteen years ago)

Wait, when being locked up by Texan facilities for the criminally ill, are you supposed to tip the jailors who administer your medications? I need to know!

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

As a Canadian I think he should be executed immediately.

― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Opinion poll suggests Dutch public overwhelmingly in favour of keeping him occupied with state-provided drugs and prostitues.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

the verdict in this small corner of scotland is "staggeringly fucking inhumane".

― grimly fiendish, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:14 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I'm with Grimly and others, from another small corner of Scotland. Understand the need for isolation, do NOT understand the need for degradation.

― ailsa, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:20 (eighteen years ago)

"Since this man did not have the decency to put a mask on, as he was told to do by doctors, he exposed others to this deadly disease. He should be locked up permanently. Had a baby, child, elderly person or anyone else caught the diseases, I am quite sure that it would not have bothered him a bit. If he is so disenchanted with the U.S., he should go back to Russia where he got the disease to begin with and see if they treat him any better." — Marie

"Send him to Iran or Iraq or to a medical center but do not let him walk our streets! Did we not learn any thing from the AIDS virus? Civil Rights? Let the ACLU take this guy home with them and talk about it ... Come on ACLU, put your selves on the line ... I bet NONE of you will sit down with this guy with out a mask on!" — Gary (Suwanee, GA)

(fox news)

― Heave Ho, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 23:41 (eighteen years ago)

Most people do not realize how much power is vested in public health officials to impose their will upon ordinary citizens, through quarantine and similar measures. The laws are on the books, but almost never invoked until an epidemic. If bird flu makes the jump to become an airborne human pathogen, we may see some of these laws dusted off big time.

― Aimless, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:43 (eighteen years ago)

Just be thankful it's not on BBC Have Your say. Then you would see some depressing comments I'm sure!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:47 (eighteen years ago)

my grandmother lives in phoenix and is very frail as it is, so i'm glad he's locked up.

― g®▲Ðұ, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:07 (eighteen years ago)

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