"Comedy" accents and racism: Allo Allo!

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When I lived in Italy my mates and me used to do "hilarious" Sicilian accents, i.e. basically replace every S with Sh and every vowel with U. But we were just idiotic racists I suspect.

-- Mark C, Wednesday, April 4, 2007 2:00 PM

(from the http://www.ilxor.com:8080/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=40&threadid=53069 thread)

I had a big discussion about this with some German friends a while ago - pretty much every country has a whipping boy region, and in Germany it's Bavaria. But is the simple act of adopting a regional accent different from your own, inherently racist? Are there times when it's acceptable and funny? Is "Allo Allo" racist?

Thanks to a bajillion war movies, every Brit knows how to do an exaggerated (but not completely off the mark) German "vee haff vayss off making you talk" accent - but does anybody know what a German doing a comedy English accent sounds like?

Are there any other countries where the stereotypes are so deeply ingrained, or does it really take a war to bring it out of people?

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

oh bollocks, thread URLs don't convert to links anymore do they?

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 13:54 (eighteen years ago)

The French find English accents hilarious apparently. I heard that the original French Dougal was supposed to have a British accent.

― the next grozart, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:09 (eighteen years ago)

Oh come on, everyone knows what a comedy British accent sounds like!

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

I wouldn't consider someone aping a biggles-esque accent racist, wherever they were from. Would you? Ditto mimicing northern/scouse/cockney accents. Anyone who thinks it is should take themselves outside, have a word with themselves, amd then wind their own neck in. Yes.

― peteR, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:12 (eighteen years ago)

^amd^and

― peteR, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:12 (eighteen years ago)

Oh come on, everyone knows what a comedy ~~British~~ Cockney accent sounds like!

fixed...

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:13 (eighteen years ago)

Oooh, this is gonna be real good.

― g-kit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

do you have a view yourself?

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

I'm here to watch the hilarity that is ilx0rs arguing about racism, why the fuck would I want to join in?

― g-kit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:27 (eighteen years ago)

I saw the Sherlock Holmes episode of The Simpsons about a week ago. I didn't find their (awful awful awful) accents racist, just really hard to listen to. I think Suzy has a similar problem with Brits pretending to be American on Radio 4 adaptations of John Updike novels or similar.

― Anna, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:32 (eighteen years ago)

James Marsters to thread

― peteR, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

I heard that the original French Dougal was supposed to have a British accent.

I read this too and it made sense because when I watched a Manège Enchanté on Youtube Dougal was the only one I could understand. I wondered why at the time and even wondered if it was a British voice actor. (This may not say nice things about my school French teachers, but I think it is just my ears that are at fault)

Hitchhiker's Guide TV series now somewhat ruined by "American" accent by some of the aliens (Zaphod Beeblebrox?), but I guess they are aliens, so it is just a coincidence that it sounds like an awful fake American accent.

― a passing spacecadet, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:36 (eighteen years ago)

as an aside, anyone know what language the simpsons' bee man speaks in spain? do they show the simpsons in india? (insert inevitable apu question here)

fawlty towers is shown in Spain and Manuel's Italian, right?

do Germans do comedy impressions of English soldiers?

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:49 (eighteen years ago)

dude you missed the thread about Apu/Indian accents last week

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

(and the week before, arf)

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

do Germans do comedy impressions of English soldiers?

they'd have to be speaking German but with a particular English accent, either Cockneyish or posh HC as these tend to be the ones most imitated by non-Brits (or so it seems). I would love to hear this because I can't really imagine it in my head at all.

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:52 (eighteen years ago)

Not about accents but I know plenty of Germans and they all find that Fawlty Towers episode hilarious just as much as we do.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Allo Allo was actually shown in France.
People do have to remember it was a pisstake of a 1970s show called Secret Army. Complete with the lady upstairs in bed (except it was the cafe owners wife not mother in law) and he did have affairs with member of staff.
Colonel Von Strum actually appeared in both shows!
and Cliff Claven from Cheers was in it too. (i saw some episodes last year on UK Drama)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:14 (eighteen years ago)

they'd have to be speaking German but with a particular English accent, either Cockneyish or posh HC as these tend to be the ones most imitated by non-Brits (or so it seems). I would love to hear this because I can't really imagine it in my head at all.

exactly! and i'm fluent in German! i just can't get a handle on it.

People do have to remember it was a pisstake of a 1970s show called Secret Army.

i've never heard this before. who made it? was it drama or comedy? is this the only incidence of a pisstake show superseding the source material in terms of (haha, i know) "cultural/historical resonance"?

whoah, huge derail.

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

good derail!

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

basically, i want to hear furren types speaking their own languages with their particular idea of an english accent. is that so hard? apparently it's impossible!

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

there was also Nobb's "Fairly Secret Army" too. not related except by title.

― Alan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

compare british policeman spy in allo allo with sacha baron cohen in Talladega Nights.

also the Goodness Gracious Me team should do "aloo aloo". oh they probly did

― Alan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:24 (eighteen years ago)

fawlty towers is shown in Spain and Manuel's Italian, right?

Mexican I believe.

― Anna, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

x-post It was a drama. When Allo Allo 1st came on tv I knew it was a pisstake of a show. But It wasn't a show i knew of. It wasn't until last year when I saw it that I realised that's what it was.
Couldn't believe it when the Colonel appeared in it! And Cliff Claven in the last couple of episodes playing a guy in the canadian army was the clincher for me!

Jan Francis was in series one. Presumably she left to appear in the fabulous Just Good Friends. Which also gets repeated on UKTV Drama and is even better than I remembered it.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075579/

Holy shit it was actually based on true events.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

"Sorry, he's from Guadalajara"?

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

Each of the scripts were based on real events and thoroughly researched. On several occasions throughout the series's run, the BBC would reject a script as it was deemed too accurate and potentially upsetting to audiences or too politically sensitive.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

Haha

Belgium - noted for its flat landscape - was recreated on locations in East Anglia which is similarly flat, though some exterior locations were also filmed in Brussels itself.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

Okay the next person who goes "ooh someone's gonna call someone a racist here" within the first two posts of a thread as if it's a hilariously original meta-joke deserves a slap.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

Even if the thread does have 'racism' in the title.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

How about I make posts anticipating further physical threats from ilx0rs instead?

― g-kit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

a step sideways.

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

"compare british policeman spy in allo allo with sacha baron cohen in Talladega Nights."

otm.

though both are kind of clouseau.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

Good Moaning , ILX.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

what'd the englishman say when he found his wife in bed with two other men?

allo allo allo

exactly! and i'm fluent in German! i just can't get a handle on it.

unless you're really fluent, and grew up speaking it, i guess it would sound like you -- or someone less fluent -- with a little extra added on, right? like, if I try to speak spanish, which i barely can, I'm basically doing a spanish impression of asshole english tourists, or whatever it is they find funny in spain.

― negotiable, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:12 (eighteen years ago)

I believe the French do this with Belgians, actually, about the same way Americans do it with the South. Though that's clearly ridiculous, because at least Belgians are smart enough to have words for "eighty" and "ninety," instead of saying "four twenties" and "four twenties and ten."

― nabisco, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

unless you're really fluent, and grew up speaking it, i guess it would sound like you -- or someone less fluent -- with a little extra added on, right?

Well, not really. at the risk of sounding like a cunt, my accent is allegedly sufficiently close to that of a Hamburg native (since I learnt it all there, pretty much) that several Germans I've met have had no idea I was English. But that's more by accident than by design.

Anyone can learn an accent, basically, but making that accent sound natural and not like an impression is...somehow an unquantifiable skill, apparently.

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 00:07 (eighteen years ago)

basically, i want to hear furren types speaking their own languages with their particular idea of an english accent. is that so hard? apparently it's impossible!

1) Not a comedy and 2) American rather than English accents, but in Like Water For Chocolate, the Mexican heroine marries an American man. But as I recall the actor didn't speak Spanish with a pronounced American accent (at least that I could identify) so much as speak it flatly.

― j.lu, Thursday, 5 April 2007 00:35 (eighteen years ago)

see, i know i *can* speak german with a completely english accent and it sounds bloody ridiculous, but i've never heard (or heard of) a native speaker of *any* language do the same. i'm forced to conclude the English are the only people who do this!

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 00:43 (eighteen years ago)

pretty much every country has a whipping boy region, and in Germany it's Bavaria

I didn't realize that - a former German teacher once told me that area my family lives in, The Pfaltz, is the "whipping boy region." She said that German's make fun of the accents of those from the Pfaltz the way people here might imitate a deep southern drawl.
Also, I would love to hear someone speak German with an English accent. I've never heard it before!

― ENBB, Thursday, 5 April 2007 00:53 (eighteen years ago)

Oops - I meant "Germans" not "German's" obviously.

― ENBB, Thursday, 5 April 2007 00:54 (eighteen years ago)

I get asked all the time in Oz here whether I find the word 'pom' offensive - as far as I'm aware the Australian people have never systematically oppressed the English, and the word was never used as a weapon as part of any oppression, so is therefore neither offensive nor racist.

Using this as a yardstick, it's not in the slightest bit racist for, say, Brits to affect comedy European accents or vice-versa. Furthermore it lessens the importance of a measurement such as 'racism' to bandy it about willy-nilly at things like 'Allo-'Allo and their ilk.

― Huey in Melbourne, Thursday, 5 April 2007 01:06 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah pom isnt an insult. But it is often said as "whining pom" which is.

― Trayce, Thursday, 5 April 2007 01:26 (eighteen years ago)

Ironically, no-one whines more than an Aussie, especially when it rains, which it's doing now - heavily. Dudes, your country is drying out! Rain is good! Solid rain for two weeks is very good! Deal with it! Off topic! Off topic!

― Huey in Melbourne, Thursday, 5 April 2007 02:19 (eighteen years ago)

yup - show me a Walkabout in winter and I'll show you a pub full of the most whingeing moaning unappreciative Antipodeans in the world :-)

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:53 (eighteen years ago)

no-one whines more than an Aussie

Have you met any Scots? ;)

― Mark C, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:57 (eighteen years ago)

those Ecuadorians man, they just never stop.

― blueski, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:01 (eighteen years ago)

I remember "Secret Army", it was boring. The opening credits, though, a montage of straight roads and railway lines dissapearing into the distance, was great and somewhat creepy.

― Pashmina, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:23 (eighteen years ago)

here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBvREDwSq_A

― Pashmina, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:26 (eighteen years ago)

Pash, I'm sorry, but that's crazy talk. What about the night whatsherface had been shot and still had to go out and sing and hide it from the Germans? Or when other whasherface got named as a collaborator and had her head shaved despite the fact that she worked for the resistance?

I don't remember a lot else, I was only, like, eight or something when it was on, but I remember my Mam and Dad loved it.

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:16 (eighteen years ago)

as far as I'm aware the Australian people have never systematically oppressed the English, and the word was never used as a weapon as part of any oppression, so is therefore neither offensive nor racist.

This is how it all boils down in my head too. Therefore English people doing HILARIOUS Irish accents=not funny. However, my mates directly imitating my Irish accent=funny.

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:17 (eighteen years ago)

What about the night whatsherface had been shot and still had to go out and sing and hide it from the Germans? Or when other whasherface got named as a collaborator and had her head shaved despite the fact that she worked for the resistance?

Great episodes. The one where the German guy was sentenced in a kangaroo court (while in custody of the allies as war was over) to death by firing squad, while Kessler escaped with his woman(i think she paid off cliff claven?)

I see there was a spin off where someone went after Kessler. Did they catch him?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:20 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

this means english people have essentially forfeited the right to imitate pretty much anyone except other english people, since "we" (ie some people with nothing to do with currently living people, a long time ago) could reasonably be accused of having oppressed most of the world at some point in history.

that sucks.

does german count though? tricky one!

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:20 (eighteen years ago)

that sucks.

There are always consequences.

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:32 (eighteen years ago)

Except the Vikings! We have never opressed the Vikings, we have only been opressed *by* Vikings! So mock all you like!

― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:33 (eighteen years ago)

if only someone had said to the English at the time 'look if you carry on like this you'll never be able to imitate our accents in the far future without being deemed unfunny and racist'. would've saved a LOT of trouble.

― blueski, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:36 (eighteen years ago)

Therefore English people doing HILARIOUS Irish accents=not funny. However, my mates directly imitating my Irish accent=funny.

what if they're half-English/half-Irish?

― blueski, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:37 (eighteen years ago)

simple. we mock our own dialects. as used to hi-hi-hilarious effect by Ben Elton last night.

― Alan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:38 (eighteen years ago)

speaking as a culturally oppressed welsh. ok not actually speaking welsh. or that much oppressed :-/

― Alan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:40 (eighteen years ago)

what if they're half-English/half-Irish?

Only a true English person sees such a distinction. For the Irish there is only Irish. You are either Irish or you are not. You must declare, and once you have declared you can never go back.

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

Tell that to all those "Irish-Americans" then.

― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:43 (eighteen years ago)

emeraldborgcube.jpg

― blueski, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:43 (eighteen years ago)

"as far as I'm aware the Australian people have never systematically oppressed the English"

strewth. i don't think the english 'systematically oppressed' what you mean by australians -- well except for transporting them round the world to a big ol' colony...

we don't do mean impressions of native australians or however we're euphemizing them.

― That one guy that quit, Thursday, 5 April 2007 12:46 (eighteen years ago)

basically, i want to hear furren types speaking their own languages with their particular idea of an english accent. is that so hard? apparently it's impossible!

There are comedy English accents on French TV all the time. Well, not all the time, but it's a staple of adverts. Basically any product with a British origin will have some chap in a bowler hat speaking French in a supposedly English accent - always a posh accent, never Cockney or regional - a bit like if someone old school like Peter Ustinov or Prince Philip was speaking French.

― underpants of the gods, Thursday, 5 April 2007 13:15 (eighteen years ago)

it's an outrage!

― blueski, Thursday, 5 April 2007 13:15 (eighteen years ago)

Dammit we were oppressed by Normans - that's racist!

― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

backtracking a wee bit, my Dad knew a dutchman who did a fantastic englishman, frenchman and german joke, in english, getting the frenchman speaking English with a french accent and the German speaking English with a german accent absolutely perfect. He said it was a very humbling experience.

― Vicky, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

vicky, are you sure i didn't tell you this story? we met a bloke in a restaurant in st tropez years ago who told a brilliant gag involving french, german and english. it revolved around a pun on "vermouth dry" and "drei" being the German for "three" and so on...

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:15 (eighteen years ago)

nope, definitely a jolly dutchman dad knew, Dad was very sad when he found out that he'd died.

― Vicky, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

my dad does an ott inbred-british-royalty accent, sinking his chin into his neck, frowning strenuously, and flaring his nostils. One of his "classics" is a joke about some Lord (whole lot of backstory involving a day of killing foxes or smthg) taking a bath, who lets loose a big fart in the bath, and is then surprised to see his servant, William, at the door with a hot water bottle. Says to servant: my worrrd, hhhhwhat ahhhh you dew-ing? Servant: Why, m'lud, I distinctly heard you say "Bring-me-a-hotwaterbottlewilliam."

that doesn't really work when it's typed.

― negotiable, Thursday, 5 April 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

i don't get it.

― thomp, Thursday, 5 April 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

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