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Hey :)

I've been doing a lot of thinking about the Theism-Atheism thing and I came up with the question, "Why Not??" I'm a young college student and I'm looking for answers and I figure, why not? Why not just take Pascal's Wager, believe in God for insurance and because it is a nice thought to have somebody looking out for you? And if you're wrong, so what? Why should I become an atheist! (Seriously, I would really like some reasons: I want to know the truth!) I'm sorry if this letter comes off funny, but I'm really curious!!!!! :)

Sara :)

― and what, Saturday, 14 April 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

:) :) :)

― am0n, Saturday, 14 April 2007 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

all those smileys arent doing a very good job of masking the doubt & fear that clearly plagues her to within an inch of her pathetic life

― deeznuts, Saturday, 14 April 2007 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

What if you believe in the wrong god? Like, what if you accidentally believe in Satan, thinking he's the real god? Then when you die, it's gonna be like a world of hurt.

― libcrypt, Saturday, 14 April 2007 17:28 (nineteen years ago)

Accepting Pascal's Wager is not cost-free. You must pay in terms of lost freedom of thought and freedom of action, as you shape your thoughts and actions to conform to your presumed belief.

Pascal himself recognized this in his argument and countered that compared to the infinite payoff one might expect by winning the wager, the costs were negligible (any finite costs would appear so, you know). However, this like saying you will fork out all the money in your pocket every day for the rest of your life to buy chances on a lottery where the jackpot is all the money there is, but the odds against winning are 999 trillion to one.

So, when approaching Pascal's Wager, remember that lotteries should not be played for investment purposes, but for entertainment only.

― Aimless, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

OBJECTIVE: Ministries Christian game theory page

― Abbott, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:31 (nineteen years ago)

We can now address the Atheist and say: "The payoff matrix doesn't lie, dear Atheist. It is in your best interest to believe in the Lord. If you will not accept the evidence of His existence before your eyes, then consider the infinitely unlosable strategy of the Believer that the science of Game Theory has shown you. You just can't go wrong by believing!" Once the Atheist accepts the winning strategy of Belief, he will then be open to standard forms of apologetics and will be able to finally see the proof of the Lord that is all around us.

― Abbott, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

I fucking love Objective Ministries.

― Abbott, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

Why not? Because it's morally wrong!

Any God that operates a system of demanding obedience, looking out for the select few, and condemning the rest to eternal damnation, should be worshipped.

― Bob Six, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

It's still a 10 or so to 1 chance that you're gonna choose the correct god after you accept that Pascal didn't have syphillis of the brain.

― libcrypt, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

er...not (x-post to self)

― Bob Six, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

Surely the odds of choosing the wrong god are infinitley higher than 10-1. what if there's only one person in the world worshipping the right God? Or no-one at all and he/she/it is really really pissed at all of us.

― Uptoeleven, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

Having said that, i kinda wish, even if it made me a deluded idiot, that i had some sort of faith. I try for agnosticism but not sure my heart's entirely in it.

― Uptoeleven, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

Unless all the extant religions were just traps set up by a shadowy, malicious trickster god to catch out all the people who'll believe any bullshit, so he can subsequently reincarnate them as hilarious animals, eg cusus

xpost

― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

cuscus

― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

The only correct gods are the ones that have appeared in human history as worshipped by at least 10,000 or so peeps, see? All the oneseys and twosies are just demons and succubi.

― libcrypt, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

http://zoltantakacs.com/zt/im/scan/animals/4622-120.jpg

Strom Thurmond, yesterday

― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

So I dunno if it's exactly 10 or anything. The Scienceologists might have something to say bout that.

― libcrypt, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

OMG if god is going to reanimate me as a cuscus then I believe in him right away!

http://www.home.no/australiaweb/Spotted-Cuscus-2.jpg

Hello adorable, carefree future!

― Abbott, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:47 (nineteen years ago)

The cuscus probably has constipation or something.

― libcrypt, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

It's not what he would have wanted, though

Maybe that doesn't matter, can something be bad for you if you're not aware of it? T Nagel to thread

― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

Uptoeleven, there is no dishonor in having a wish for some kind of faith. It is a noble wish, but I would rate Pascal's Wager a very bad way to go about finding one's faith. Keep on reading. Keep on looking. Keep on thinking. You will find a way that strikes you as right.

As I recently mentioned on I Love Books, a week ago I re-read Alan Watts's book, The Wisdom of Insecurity. It is anyone's guess whether his particular formulation of the problem of faith and its solution will appeal to you, but if it does, then almost all you would need to know is written in there.

If that book doesn't chime a chord with you, don't worry. There are hundreds of thousands of paths to your desired destination. Just don't give up and you'll be all right in the end.

― Aimless, Saturday, 14 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

I've just found a copy of this in my university library so I'll check it out (I really will) tomorrow or Monday. Thanks for the suggestion.

It's not really something I've had too much trouble with recently but certainly about a year ago I was dealing with an awful lot of "existence is pointless" issues that messed me up for a while.

Now I'm more, sorta accepting that that's still the case but that's no reason to let one's life go to racka nd ruin (as I was perhaps on the verge of doing). I still find a lot of things in life to have faith in.

― Uptoeleven, Saturday, 14 April 2007 22:38 (nineteen years ago)

From a Christian POV, I've never understood the Pascal argument - is God OK with it if you're insincere and don't really believe him, but doing it just to make a safe bet?

Alternately, do fundies feel that it's possible to will yourself into belief, forgetting all doubts over time? (yeah, homosexuality, guess they do)

― milo z, Saturday, 14 April 2007 22:56 (nineteen years ago)

Why not? Because it's morally wrong!

Any God that operates a system of demanding obedience, looking out for the select few, and condemning the rest to eternal damnation, should be worshipped.

-- Bob Six, Saturday, April 14, 2007 1:35 PM (7 hours ago)

you are the only other person I have ever heard advocate atheolatry! this has always made so much sense to me -- if there is a god and he's more concerned with your feelings about him than the morality your actions, than he's kind of a selfish dick isn't he?

― bernard snowy, Sunday, 15 April 2007 02:14 (nineteen years ago)

what if there's only one person in the world worshipping the right God?

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I still believe there's only one true God, and he lives in this lake. And his name is Zorgo.

― Z S, Sunday, 15 April 2007 02:21 (nineteen years ago)

(whistles)

― en i see kay, Sunday, 15 April 2007 03:55 (nineteen years ago)

WHAT IF IT TURNS OUT YOU WERE WORSHIPPING THE ANTI-GOD AND WILL GO TO SUPERHELL WHEN YOU DIE?

― abanana, Sunday, 15 April 2007 04:00 (nineteen years ago)

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