Terry Gilliam - C/D, S/D

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I'm sure we'd done this before but search threw up nothing...

Anyway, I've recently watched Jabberwocky and Tideland - both really really good and of course Brazil is one of the bestest films ever. Watching "And Now For Something Completely Different", it struck me that the best bits were the TG animation sections.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 3 May 2007 12:05 (eighteen years ago)

Brazil is the only one that's more than halfway good. He never learned to focus (I don't mean the image).

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:10 (eighteen years ago)

(not counting the "co-directed" films as "his")

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

is tideland good? you're the only person I've heard say that.

brazil, time bandits, baron munchausen, fear and loathing: so classic. but when he's bad he's terrible (haven't been able to get through brothers grimm, jabberwocky was dumb).

― akm, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:14 (eighteen years ago)

Please tell me what you liked about Tideland. I didn't like it one bit.

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:18 (eighteen years ago)

I guess I just like most things he's done. Tideland could have been a little more mentalist for my liking and Jabberwocky could have been a bit more directional but on the whole I like his style.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

haha MORE mentalist?

― nickalicious, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

Well, I guess I can see that. I just found it painful to watch. Incredibly painful to watch. Every frame of it.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

YEah. It could have been even more unhinged, but really it never quite delved into the surrealness it wanted to go into. That said, I still thought it was pretty good, at least for the first half.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

why nick? just out of interest?

― the next grozart, Thursday, 3 May 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

And he is probably my favorite film-maker. I love Jabberwocky though, it has a great low-fi Python-esque charm.

Have you seen Lost in La Mancha, the documentary about his failed attempt to make a Man of La Mancha film? It is pretty incredible.

xpost I think the biggest problem with Tideland is that we were supposed to like or sympathize with Jeliza Rose, and I just don't think the actress pulled it off. Also her relationship with the neighbor guy was just completely nerve-racking, which I guess was the point, but if that's your point, why?

I did find the taxidermied dad stuff about as hilarious as horrendous though.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:02 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, it seemed like he set out to make the audience as uncomfortable as possible with that film (obv considering a child helps their parent shoot up/overdose in the first 5 minutes), which I suppose he succeeded at, but I just don't understand why he would make such a film.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:03 (eighteen years ago)

Lost in La Mancha is great, the image of Johnny Depp wrestling with a giant fish will always stay with me.

I also love Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas, although it is pretty flawed. For me, "great but flawed" sums up most of his films. Even The Brothers Grimm had some redeeming features.

― Neil S, Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:04 (eighteen years ago)

xpost I think the biggest problem with Tideland is that we were supposed to like or sympathize with Jeliza Rose, and I just don't think the actress pulled it off. Also her relationship with the neighbor guy was just completely nerve-racking, which I guess was the point, but if that's your point, why?

Yeah, bits of it were a little uncomfortable, which TG kind of prepares you for in his slightly pretentious but optional foreword on the DVD. Why make such a film? I dunno man, why make any films? The heroin thing I thought was kind of valid - it shows that Jeliza Rose is living a less than mainstream lifestyle, it shows her disattachment from her parents and it links the Alice In Wonderland pretext to it

I had no idea FALILV was Terry Gilliam.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

Search: http://youtube.com/watch?v=IRHA9W-zExQ

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:12 (eighteen years ago)

wurrr... boss just came in.

I don't know about the relationship between Jeliza Rose and the handicapped neighbour. But I guess it's something that could essentially happen, like kids playing doctors and nurses. Underneath it all and through an adult's eyes it's all "WOAH! This is disGUSTING bloody filthy peado shit", but really it's Jeliza making all the moves and it's not as if there's any serious stuff going on between them. It starts to show Jeliza's mischievious side as well, tarting up and generally acting the madam.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:14 (eighteen years ago)

and no matter what, you can't say that child actress isn't some kind of genius. she was good in silent hill too.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

She was great. But I just found the film incredibly boring, which was kind of a shame because I liked all the weirdness in it. I suspect that the girl's monologues are probably better in the book.

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:32 (eighteen years ago)

I still think The Fisher King is one of his most underrated movies. Robin Williams is halfway tolerable! Mercedes Ruhel besting all the other actors! Jeff Bridges as Jeff Lebowski's depressed older brother! Tom Waits in a wheelchair! EvErYThIng IS CoMiNG UP VIDEOOOO-OHS!

Even Gilliam's stereotypes, like the guy on the horse, fits right in. And I would nominate a pivotal scene late in the movie as one of the most non-gratitutious and necessary scenes of graphic violence in cinema.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

Robin Williams gets naked and howls at the moon. This is not tolerable.

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

but somehow it totally suits him. I think he probably does that all the time irl.

― kenan, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

he does it (or something as bad) in lotsa movies

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

oh yeah fisher king is alright. though I rewatched it recently and didn't like it nearly as much as I did when it came out, and the final scene is dumb. 12 monkeys though!

― akm, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

fisher king is the only good one

when i saw 12 monkeys post-h.s. i couldnt believe how dumb it was

― and what, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

12 Monkeys is the only time-travel movie that seems plausible.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:15 (eighteen years ago)

In other words, YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

excuse me dog
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/16/TheButterflyEffect.jpg/200px-TheButterflyEffect.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:20 (eighteen years ago)

NO. You can't have alternate pasts and remember the original past in the present.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)

How can you remember something that never happened?

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)

Fisher King is awful. Its two films in one - the love story interlude completely derails the film for like an hour and then for no reason it circles back to "oh yeah, let's find the Grail!" also Morbz OTM re: Robin Williams getting naked, ruining Jimmy Durante songs, etc. 12 Monkeys is hampered by the predictability of the plot and Bruce Willis (who I can never tolerate), but it has its moments - mostly the ones set in the future or featuring Brad Pitt as schizo-on-speed. Probably the only flim I really like Pitt in besides Thelma and Louise.

HOWEVER I love love love Gilliam's other major films: the troika of Time Bandits, Brazil, and Baron Munchausen is a major achievement. All three films share themes but present them through different viewpoints via the central characters - first as a child in Time Bandits, then as middle-aged man in Brazil, and then as the old man reflecting on his life in Baron Munchausen. (Time Bandits is literally shot almost entirely from the POV of the child, for instance - the narrative in Munchausen loops and shifts in accordance with the Baron's state of mind, etc.)

After those three, he's got some decent ideas ina few of the other films but yeah, unfocused for sure.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:35 (eighteen years ago)

RONG

― and what, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:48 (eighteen years ago)

brad pitt in 12 monkeys is srsly my least fav performance in any movie ever, he makes fisher king robin williams look like steve mcqueen

― and what, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

oh yeah, geez, Time Bandits is the other good one. Munchausen bored me (another smaller shootable R Williams role).

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

I got the DVD of Time Bandits recently and noticed all sorts of stuff I missed back when I saw it as a teenager - and it is really really funny.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

"don't touch it - IT'S EVIL!"

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

Gilliam is one of those people whose work I love more or less uncritically. Even when he's failing, I love how he's trying. Even Brothers Grimm is entertaining as an almost-but-not-quite-strictly-for-the-money effort. I like the way Napoleon and the Enlightenment still bug him.

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

Kevin: Yes, why does there have to be evil?
Supreme Being: I think it has something to do with free will.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

Tideland's interesting, but that's the worst child actor performance ever.

― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

Ralph Richardson, best God ever

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

"Come on then. Back to creation. We mustn't waste any more time. They'll think I've lost control again and put it all down to evolution."

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

Robin Hood: And you're a robber too. How long have you been a robber?
Wally: Four foot one.
Robin Hood: Good lord! Jolly good. Four foot one? Well that-that-that is-is- a long time, isn't it?

― nickalicious, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

Brazil, Munchhausen and Time Bandits are his best movies. 12 Monkeys is great. Fisher King and Fear and Loathing are flawed, but they're solid, entertaining movies. Brother's Grimm = pppppptht.

I really want to see Tideland. Is the girl's performance that bad? Very nervous after Grimm.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:16 (eighteen years ago)

I can't quite put my finger on why Fear and Loathing doesn't work - the casting and the look and feel of the film are great, but its like there's no "story" really. No conflict to hang a dramatic arc on, just a lot of ranting.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

David Warner, best evil supreme being wotsit ever.
And his sidekick (Ringo from Never the Twain) - "Thank you marster, THANNNK YOUUUUU!"

Funny, I watched Tideland just the other day. I feared it, kinda, but was surprised that I liked it. I liked it more on second viewing, and even more on third viewing with Gilliam commentary.
I loved the little girl in it, she was fab.

― DavidM, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

Have they done a deluxe DVD remaster kind of thing for Time Bandits yet? There is this huge rift in the film/sound quality between Time Bandits and Baron Munchausen, at least in the versions I've seen most recently (both cable tv).

― nickalicious, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:21 (eighteen years ago)

criterion, yeah

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:25 (eighteen years ago)

yeah I just bought the Criterion DVD. its great

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

I think the weakness in Fear and Loathing is the source material. It's not really a story to begin with. It's an autobiographical expose on the American dream.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

maybe ...on the Campaign Trail woulda been a better source? (Also would've required an appearance of my favorite president-as-comedy-source-material, Nixon) How would people rate it next to "Where the Buffalo Roam"?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

I'll agree that most of his films are big clusterfucks, yet I've liked most that I've seen - even the Fisher King (Williams & love story derailment were problematic), 12 Monkeys, and Fear & Loathing. I loved Brazil. I haven't seen Time Bandits and I'm thinking this needs to be remedied asap.

― will, Thursday, 3 May 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 279 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

The order in which you approach an ouevre matters I guess.

Brazil, time bandits, same old Gilliam afaic

― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Wednesday, 8 February 2017 11:22 (eight years ago)

don't have much to add to this convo tbh but i just wanted to register my appreciation for dmac's new display name - a+ work

― for sale: steve bannon waifu pillow (heavily soiled) (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 8 February 2017 11:56 (eight years ago)

nod

― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Wednesday, 8 February 2017 14:11 (eight years ago)

three months pass...

so Don Quixote is finished. Already loads of criticism regardling charges that he 'destroyed' a convent, though the descriptions of 'destroyed' sound a bit overblown to me (a few broken modern roof tiles, and trees that were planted for another movie were removed).

― akm, Monday, 5 June 2017 22:39 (eight years ago)

three weeks pass...

He's a clumsy oaf

― quet inn tarnation (darraghmac), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:49 (eight years ago)

What happened?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:00 (eight years ago)

rip

― sleepingbag, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:02 (eight years ago)

Is this about smashing up the nunnery?

― how's life, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 09:10 (eight years ago)

It's a pleasingly complete description tbh

― quet inn tarnation (darraghmac), Wednesday, 28 June 2017 10:37 (eight years ago)

nine months pass...

http://www.vulture.com/2018/04/here-is-the-long-awaited-man-who-killed-don-quixote-trailer.html

― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 April 2018 04:01 (seven years ago)

Damn looks like it might be a return to form

― Droni Mitchell (Ross), Wednesday, 11 April 2018 04:16 (seven years ago)

i hear it's being delayed again due to a lawsuit this time from someone who was one of the original producers (who gilliam claims never actually put in any money)

― akm, Wednesday, 11 April 2018 13:46 (seven years ago)

two weeks pass...

second trailer is a bad trailer, but I suspect that's the studio trying to make it look less Gilliam-y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVArq_Qs9lY

― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 30 April 2018 18:19 (seven years ago)

looks interesting and maybe trying for a Fellini feel. i really enjoyed Imaginarium (well the first 2/3 of it, by the ending the plot turned to shit).

― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 1 May 2018 12:56 (seven years ago)

one month passes...

https://screenrant.com/terry-gilliam-man-don-quixote-rights/

Director Terry Gilliam has encountered more trouble with his years-long passion project The Man Who Killed Don Quixote, as news broke today that the filmmaker has lost his rights to the film. Despite all of the time that Gilliam has poured into the film’s production, the director lost a court battle that determined who had proper rights to The Man Who Killed Don Quixote.
The Paris Court of Appeal ruled that the film’s former producer Paulo Branco has the rights to the project after reviewing a 2016 contract that confirmed Branco’s enduring ties to the film. It was Branco that originally began the suit, taking Gilliam to court over the film’s rights after claiming the filmmaker made the movie illegally.

― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Sunday, 17 June 2018 16:58 (seven years ago)

what the hell

this project is cursed as fuck

― CARL MARKS PRINCIPAL INVESTING AND ADVISORY SERVICES (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:00 (seven years ago)

well

gilliam behaves like a total fuckin brat asshole so stuff like this is perhaps tbe

― tired culché (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:17 (seven years ago)

that's true however everything I read about this lawsuit was bullshit.

― akm, Sunday, 17 June 2018 22:18 (seven years ago)

two months pass...

well this did get some good reviews... i hope we see it eventually

https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/05/19/keep-tilting-terry-with-the-magical-man-who-killed-don-quixote-gilliam-embraces-the-madness/

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 18:35 (six years ago)

four months pass...

this film has leaked all over t0rr3nt sites btw. haven't watched it yet.

― akm, Sunday, 13 January 2019 19:02 (six years ago)

It came to the film festival here and was *much* better than I thought it would be, like 5/10

― Pierrot with a thousand farces (wins), Sunday, 13 January 2019 19:06 (six years ago)

one month passes...

A One Night-Only Event!

https://deadline.com/2019/02/the-man-who-killed-don-quixote-trailer-adam-driver-jonathan-pryce-terry-gilliams-1202565160/

― a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 26 February 2019 16:38 (six years ago)

so as noted upthread, this movie is readily available in torrent form so last night I watched it. starts as a sort of normal movie and then rapidly goes off the rails into an hour and a half of surreal wandering through gorgeous countryside before breathlessly tying up the plot (such as it is) in the final castle scene, which I loved but is going to alienate anyone who isn't Team Gilliam probably. women in the movie are given absolutely nothing to do, and there is some hamfisted stuff about terrorists and immigrants that made me say thank god they didn't stick with Johnny Depp for the lead role, because Adam Driver overcomes this by being kind of self-absorbedly gentle about everything and it is an amazing performance. saves the movie from coming across as ugly as it might have otherwise. more than anything it reminds me of 12 Monkeys, as Gilliam films go... surprisingly more than Baron Munchausen which I would have expected.

― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 10 March 2019 00:06 (six years ago)

I guess those first couple sentences could refer to many Gilliam movies so let me add I am talking about The Man Who Killed Don Quixote.

― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 10 March 2019 00:11 (six years ago)

Sounds cool. Is there still a legal battle going on?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 10 March 2019 00:26 (six years ago)

dunno, it's screening in the US on April 10th and had already got a European blu-ray release, so I guess they sorted something out.

― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 10 March 2019 01:03 (six years ago)

Separately, his rival re Brazil, Sid Sheinberg, passed on the other day.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 10 March 2019 04:03 (six years ago)

Wow love really does conquer all

― moose; squirrel (silby), Sunday, 10 March 2019 05:03 (six years ago)

lol

― Simon H., Sunday, 10 March 2019 05:53 (six years ago)

hee hee

― steven, soda jerk (sic), Sunday, 10 March 2019 07:57 (six years ago)

one month passes...

Anybody else see this today? Just got back and thought... not good. Parts of it - the Quixote/Driver stuff - were fun for me, and it was heartwarming to see it actually existing as a real movie in a movie theater. But the non-Quixote plot elements I thought were terrible, the stuff with the Russian bad guy didn't work for me at all. Lots of hammy acting, Driver working very hard to sell a lot of thin writing. Like some of Gilliam's other weaker moments, a lot of the plot is advanced by people running around screaming each other's names and falling over stuff, which wore thin for me pretty fast. And the handling of the female characters was really embarrassing, two sex objects that exist to be fought over. I'm glad I re-read Quixote earlier this year and had fun picking out scenes and references. But pretty rough overall imho. Honestly would have preferred a version that cuts out everything except Pryce & Driver and went for a more straight adaptation.

― One Eye Open, Thursday, 11 April 2019 02:11 (six years ago)

Also thought Pryce was a great choice for Quixote and he did a great job with what he had, but I felt disappointed that the script flattened out the character to basically comic relief. Q is obv one of the richest characters in fiction, but here it felt like he just kind of shows up and does schtick to activate the various setpieces.

― One Eye Open, Thursday, 11 April 2019 02:31 (six years ago)

A large part of Gilliam's problems stem from believing in his talents an abilities far beyond anything justified by his output. And that applies both to him and to anyone who has bankrolled his films in the past three decades.

― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 11 April 2019 03:33 (six years ago)

his films were good for the first of those 3 decades & he’s barely had anything funded in the latter two

tho they might have been better if he’d had money

― blokes you can't rust (sic), Thursday, 11 April 2019 05:34 (six years ago)

three weeks pass...

One Eye Open otm

― How I Redd One of the Blecchs (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 4 May 2019 21:38 (six years ago)

three months pass...

the first 2/3 of Quixote wasn't that bad. (Driver as Sancho Panza is a good joke, and his physicality makes for its own action movie.) The last 40 mins is pretty much the usual TG mess.

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 29 August 2019 02:57 (five years ago)

wait how did you see this? I thought it was still in legal limbo

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 August 2019 15:25 (five years ago)

it's streaming on Amazon and the Blu-Ray was released on June 4th in the US, earlier this year in Europe. Also it's heavily torrented.

― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 29 August 2019 16:14 (five years ago)

Very limited theatrical run in April too.

― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 29 August 2019 16:18 (five years ago)

ah ok thx

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 August 2019 16:26 (five years ago)

it seemed to get zero promotion, not surprising it's invisible (it's not the triumph of filmmaking you'd hope for from 25 years of production, but Driver is great in it)

― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 29 August 2019 16:30 (five years ago)

like many gilliam misfires, i felt like I could see the bones of a really good film buried somewhere in there, but it never quite makes it out from underneath all the mess.

That's how he gets me every time, even after being disappointed so many times, theres always this sense that theres a great movie thats tantalizingly close to snapping into place, but then it just lurches and stumbles around and smashes into stuff until it collapses from exhaustion.

― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Thursday, 29 August 2019 17:03 (five years ago)

He actually had a pretty good streak going until Fear and Loathing. Then there was a long gap, and it's been kind of flop-city ever since then.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 August 2019 17:10 (five years ago)

the last one that entirely satisfied me was Time Bandits

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 29 August 2019 21:26 (five years ago)

I would say Brazil but... yeah

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 August 2019 21:37 (five years ago)

no wait I mean Baron Munchausen

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 August 2019 21:37 (five years ago)

twelve monkeys and id listen to a case for parnassus

― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Thursday, 29 August 2019 22:01 (five years ago)

Time Bandits is my fave - what a batshit movie. But I really like 12 Monkeys and Fisher King.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 August 2019 22:07 (five years ago)

two years pass...

A strong read.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/12/sarah-polley-terry-gilliam-run-towards-danger-baron-munchausen-interview

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 12 June 2022 21:32 (three years ago)

Very well written. Also solves the puzzle of why she didn’t use any explosives in Stories We Tell.

― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 13 June 2022 03:54 (three years ago)

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