How to handle depression in a relative.

I'm sorry E. That is rough.

My mom's been in a bad state for awhile also due to health issues. It's frustrating b/c we both have bipolar disorder so experience a lot of the same depression issues. Currently she's not treating it, has all but stopped her lithium, doesn't go to therapy, etc. I get on her and remind her that this is important, just like she would do me, but this only goes so far.

In my case, since it's so easy to slip down that slope myself I have to keep my distance. I offer her some moral support, advice when she'll listen, and I feel that's all I can do. It is important to remember when someone is suffering that you can't always fix them, no matter how much you might want to. You can be supportive but you can't force them to stop smoking, go to the doctor, etc. (of course if it gets really bad you can try to commit them but this is really extreme.)

Take care of yourself or you'll be of no use to her. Set your boundaries, realize you can't save her and she must ultimately want to save herself.

Don't know if that's helpful but you do have my sympathies.

Thanks, MM - it is helpful. It is really hard and I've been really upset over it for quite a while but this week in particular.

She and I have always been very close and she has always said that I'm the best thing that's ever happened to her and the only thing that ever made her happy so in a way, I feel responsible for her happiness/well being.

I might call that hotline myself and get the actual names of some therapists for her. Also, I'm going to talk to my Dad and try to get him to intervene instead of just ignore it. Hopefully those will help.

Take care of yourself or you'll be of no use to her. Set your boundaries, realize you can't save her and she must ultimately want to save herself.

I know that you're right and that she has to be the one to make this decision but that's such a harsh reality to come to terms with. I guess I'm just terrified that she won't and that it'll be too late.

I feel responsible for her happiness/well being.

This is a sentiment I identify with all too well. It's something I've had to unlearn in order to be happy myself. You are not responsible for other people's happiness. It's impossible and unfair to yourself to think so.

This actually happens a lot in my family as mental illness is rampant with us. A few months ago my aunt tried to commit suicide after a couple of rough years of depression. My grandmother died and despite being the strong one in our family forever she just couldn't stand it. I found myself in the uncomfortable position of being "the strong one" for both her and my mother. I took care of my aunt then and she has told me repeatedly since that I am "her rock". This really makes me uncomfortable as I don't feel I'm strong enough to be anyone's rock. I try to give her what I can and that's all I can do.

My brother also has been crumbling lately. He tried going to a psychiatrist but was stymied by the dumb practitioner he went to for a rec. This idiot told him he was bipolar, should have never had kids, might hurt others, etc. etc. This guy had no business making such a diagnosis, saying those things, etc. This really scared my brother and gave him a 'fuck it all' attitude towards getting help. This is really stressful for me as I love him more than anyone in the world. But again, there's only so much I can do. I can't get into his head and make him think the way I want him to.

This is why I live far from my family. It's just too much.

Giving your mother contacts for therapists and talking with your dad both sound like good plans of action. Also maybe consider therapy for yourself if you aren't already.

I might call that hotline myself and get the actual names of some therapists for her.

This isn't a bad idea. You can also go meet with them and tell them the situation. Ultimately she'll have to decide to go but you can make it as easy as possible.

The thing is, when she calls me craying 4 times a day, it's hard to listen to and not try to intervene

shes calling you here. you're not intervening, shes coming on to your territory, this is good. be firm, and TELL her what shes going to do. this isnt a case of you going round there and laying the law down, shes coming to you

depression often involves pushing people away, because they dont seem to care, so, you know, fuck them anyway, but in this case shes calling you, this gives you a platform to work on

(anyway, when people push you away, theyre really asking you to do the opposite a lot of the time, to show you actually give a fuck)

MM: Mental illness also runs rampant on that side of my family. My maternal grandmother committed suicide when my mom was 21 and my mom has even gone as far as to tell me that I'm the only reason she would never kill herslef.

I moved back to the US from England largely to be closer to my family while they're still around but if anything this seems to be driving us apart because I just can't handle this much pressure! Also, she's not the Mom I grew up with right now and it's really painful to witness.

I stopped going to therapy a couple months ago because not much was going on and I didn't have much to talk about but I think you're right and I may need to reconsider. I still go for ocassional visits/meds refills (I think we've talked about this elsewhere - I have an anxiety disorder) and next time I'll probably look into starting more regular visits again.

696 otm

696 - You're right but she says she only wants me to listen. The minute I start making suggestions she starts yelling and says that I can't tell her what to do and that she's made her decisions. She says she only calls me to vent. If I start talking about what she needs to do to help herself she screams or hangs up or both. I'm sure she'll do the same this weekend when I'm there. She just won't listen.

thats maybe ok. rome wasn't built in a day, even sunderland took a while

this is the price she has to pay for venting. (maybe call her back an hour after she's hung up). it maybe has to take time

You're probably right, thank you.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I feel like a dipshit for airing out my personal issues in such a public forum but like I said earlier, I really needed advice with this one and as someone has pointed out on another thread, you people seem to have a lot of opinions. ;-)

Nothing wrong with asking for advice. There's usually someone here who's been through the same thing.

I do think picking up therapy again would be good. People often don't think about how hard depression is on the people around them. Getting help for yourself can only make you more of a help for your mother.

Hang up on her before she hangs up on you. "You're burying me in your emotional drainage. I'm not equipped for this and I'm not trained for it, and it's wrecking me. You're drowning, and the only life preserver you're willing to grab onto doesn't float. You've got to have professional help, because I can't do it without it destroying both our lives."

Think that'll get through to her?

It probably would but I honestly don't know that I have it in me to say that to her. Unfortunately, it may get to that point pretty soon. Hopefully spending some time with her/them this weekend will work out postively in the end. We'll see.

i don't know what's right, but however bad it is for you, i don't think it's right to put it on them -- it won't help you or them.

Rock Hardy is absolutely right on here, though you could probably soften it with a lot of, "I love you, and I know you deserve to feel better than this. I want to be able to be close to you, but it's hard to do that when you're suffering so much." As it is, why would your mom go to therapy? She can call you 4 times a day! No therapist will ever give that much. Believe it or not, you are actually making it harder for your mom to get better by not setting boundaries. That's how codependence works.

I totally feel for you here--my mom has longstanding mood and personality disorders. I suggest therapy every time she goes off the deep end, but she hasn't done it yet. (She's not the problem; the world is; she doesn't understand why everyone "hates" her; etc.) She, too, used me as her crutch, her best friend, for years, when I was little and didn't know any better, which was a big blow to my healthy development.

It's hard to overcome the guilt here, but I suggest you 1) get back into therapy; 2) tell your mom you're only going to talk to her once a week, on the same day at the same time, and stick to that; 3) if you really think she might be at risk for hurting herself, look into options for outside help. Google "suicide help." Something has to be done, and you can't save her.

It will if it forces her mother to get professional help, which is the most crucial aim here.

I'm writing as someone with a bipolar spouse, by the way, diagnosed in the early 90s. What works for us is to treat it dispassionately, which can be hard since it's a mood disorder. But we take a lot of the drama out of it by recognizing it as a treatable (not curable, yet) disease, like diabetes. Some days the symptoms are worse than others. Refusing medical treatment will just land her in the hospital (or worse) eventually.

xpost -- blew lagoon OTM x 1000000

Is "that one guy" ENRQ with a new screen name?

I just ended a relationship with a girl who had depression/anxiety issues, and unfortunately the only thing that made her get her shit together and start seeing a shrink was me breaking up with her. The flip side of that coin, though, is that I never really thought she had it in her to go seek help--but she proved me very wrong, and is (I think) back on track in a serious and healthy way.

You can't break up with your mom, obviously, but blew lagoon's advice is really terrific--I wish I had been able to do something like that 6 mos to a year ago so that maybe we could have fixed her and the relationship before it was too late.

The only other advice I can offer is that suggesting that your mother go into therapy (or telling her that you can no longer help her) when she calls you crying isn't the most opportune time. Wait until she's in a stable, rational place (if she ever gets to that place), and bring it up gently but firmly. And PLEASE stand up for yourself! I'm back seeing a therapist more or less because of all sorts of anxiety and depression brought on by my own codependency.

Thanks again everyone and I agree that BL's advice sounds really good. When I first read it I was horrified at the idea of only talking to her once a week but I know that's part of the problem. I'm going to call my therapist as soon as I get back into town next week to start another round of weekly appts and I'll decide what to say/do with my Mom when I'm there this weekend and can better judge the situation.

Huge hugs! I've also been through the "only lifeline for mom" wringer and it's an incredible drain and stress. Don't be afraid of looking for help.

I can echo the encouragement to get therapy for yourself and to establish boundaries. It can take time and there may be bitter tears. In my case it took about 5 years, but it was breaking a 20 year cycle of this behavior. She's finally come around to understanding/accepting her own situation, and is very respectful of my time now.

Rock Hardy is dead on: this is a medical condition and should be treated as such. Best of luck this weekend.

Maybe you could talk to a therapist yourself and see what s/he advises YOU to do in this situation? I would certainly not say in such explicit terms what Rock Hardy suggested as it could drive your mom further down. That is, unless you really are slipping into a depression yourself.

Also, I don't always fall for the (anyway, when people push you away, theyre really asking you to do the opposite a lot of the time, to show you actually give a fuck). Sometimes people want to be left alone. But that doesn't mean it's the right solution. Certainly not in this case, you need to get her out. :-(

It will if it forces her mother to get professional help, which is the most crucial aim here.

I'm writing as someone with a bipolar spouse, by the way, diagnosed in the early 90s. What works for us is to treat it dispassionately, which can be hard since it's a mood disorder. But we take a lot of the drama out of it by recognizing it as a treatable (not curable, yet) disease, like diabetes. Some days the symptoms are worse than others. Refusing medical treatment will just land her in the hospital (or worse) eventually.

xpost -- blew lagoon OTM x 1000000

-- Rock Hardy, Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:33 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

yeah i'm enrique. i've had some complicated dealings in this field, and my ex's mother was in a not so different state than ENBB's. i am more of a sceptic about medication basically because of her situation. i also thing you have to be able to bend rules, but that bringing in people and not going it alone is essential.

Wow - so much good advice. Am on my way home now but will respond later. Again, thanks so much hearing that others have been in similar situations is already helping tremendously.

This idiot told him he was bipolar, should have never had kids, might hurt others, etc. etc. This guy had no business making such a diagnosis, saying those things, etc. This really scared my brother and gave him a 'fuck it all' attitude towards getting help.

Complete tangent, but people who dispense such doom should just be stripped of their licenses and forced to work in the salt mines. WTF. Not only are they completely abusing their responsibility, they're seriously damaging other people's lives in the process.

Maybe you could see if she'd be up for group therapy? There's something less intimidating about it for some people. It's helped me a lot, if there's a good support group in your area, it might be worth checking out for yourself.

my mom has even gone as far as to tell me that I'm the only reason she would never kill herslef.

What a burden to carry. :-(

imo i think you have to go as far as you can go towards getting her to sessions, not by giving her the number and asking her to call if that isn't working, but by making the call and presenting her with that. just pushing things along and not staying deadlocked.

My mom has even gone as far as to tell me that I'm the only reason she would never kill herself.

This is emotional blackmail, whether she realizes it or not.

I would certainly not say in such explicit terms what Rock Hardy suggested as it could drive your mom further down.

I wouldn't be that brusque, either (and max is right that during an anxiety attack is not the time to do it), but I would put it plainly: I can't be your therapist. I've been learning for years when it's time to push my wife a little and when it's time to just let her fall apart, and I still get it wrong occasionally.

Also, Elmo OTM.

Yeah, that's a statement no-one should ever force on another. That and suicide threats in a break-up situation.

As is turns out, adding a shitload of alcohol into the mix really doesn't help the situation. Funny that. :-(

A couple of weeks ago I visited only to find her incapacited when I arrived. She pretty much drank and or cired the whole weekend and I spent it helping her around the house. She's in a great deal of pain physically but refuses to see a Dr. Thanksgiving was pretty much a disaster.

I'm trying to find info on the topic online but not finding much. My Dad said he's going to try to take her to the hospital tomorrow but they can't force her to stay, can they?

Does anyone know anything about forcing someone to receiving medical treatment?

I don't, sorry. Good luck -- the biggest hurdle may be in getting her in front of a doctor who will say "you need to be admitted" with authority.

nintendo wii? a book? pills? no alcohol for starters. AA seriously.

i started going to AA as of last week and I think I will finally change my tired old loner ways

jeez erica that sounds awful. i wish i had more or different advice than what i posted upthread, but its basically the only way i know how to deal. good luck.

ps if youre not in some kind of therapy yourself you might want to give it a shot; being in codependent relationships or even just having a close relative in this much pain (physical or mental) can be really trying and you need to make sure youre taking care of yourself.

alcohol + pills is a no no.

sorry about that though.

E, I think the high point to having someone committed is that you have to show reasonable evidence that the person is a danger to herself and/or others. Which is a real bitch, b/c how are you supposed to prove that BEFORE anyone gets hurt? I know. Still, hopefully I'm wrong -- you should check in her state.

Hi, ENBB, sorry abt this whole melting mess yr in! You have my sympathies.

My mom-in-law used to work here in NM as a diagnostician who worked on call in the ER with the doctors to see who should stay or go. And they usually kept people in, if they were suicidal or clearly in some kind of bad state (based in large part on what the family said). I don't know if that's just the culture here, but if they get admitted to the ER after triage & talking w/a psych representative, they'll let you know if she can be sent to a hospital ward or elsewhere for treatment. A lot of people who showed up there (or friends I've taken) have "been forced" to be admitted. Esp. if she is in bad pain, they'll do a physical eval & then most likely a psych one, both of which should help the doctors see how they can help her.

Best of luck. If yr dad takes her tomorrow let us know how it goes.

Max's advice on getting yr own therapist is v v wise, too.

I'm now going through very similar circumstances as ENBB - did you ever manage to resolve/improve the situation?

I know it's bad form, but I'm hoping someone can offer you some help, so I'm going to bump this thread even though I have no real advice to offer.

Sorry you're having a hard time there.

Aye, I have a couple of friends who are battling with depression right now, but knowing what tod o, if anything at all is tough. I couldn't imagine it if it were a parent, so I'm afraid I have little practical advice, but I do hope someone can help.

Dunno if it's generational but my mum has similar probs too. She has a rare nerve issue with her feet which causes her a lot of pain and could eventually leave her in a wheelchair. She is really depressed about it but it's all covered up as much as possible, she'll be mega positive on the phone or when I visit home but then you might come into a room and it's clear she's been crying.

She didn't even want to tell anyone about it when she was first diagnosed about 5 years ago, my sister had to persuade her to tell my dad and I've never heard her speak about it really.

It's a strange situation as it sort of colours her world view now, my sister is the main confidant and I was relating some story about mum being really circumspect and negative about me talking about some career stuff and my sis kinda said her advice would be hugely coloured by a really bad mental state.

It is really tough on my dad who to be fair to him tries absolutely everything to help, he'll surprise her with trips away or that kind of thing, which although it isn't a sub for her going to counselling, must help her to have fun and relax and stuff.

It's really hard to know what to do, I hope I'd be different at that age and that this sort of "mustn't grumble" thing is generational, but who knows. I guess there's only so much you can do, but I can see how your situation Erica places way more pressure on you.

Anyway I don't have any practical advice really, but thought I'd relate the above to show a bit of solidarity. And to say that I know a lot of people having similar problems.

can only offer sympathy, spent my teens and a few years after in this situation. It's a poor reflection on me that i don't think i learned anything throughout that time about dealing with it, really.

Oh Ronan that made me so sad. Especially yr dad trying his best to help. I feel so helpless when its parents, I mean we all look up to our parents, seeing them like that is just heartbreaking. Mine were in a serious car accident some years back and somehow werent killed, thank deity, but it clearly affected my stoic dad. He never says so but mum always frets that he's never been the same since :( I dont know how I'll handle them getting very old and needing assiatance. I live a long way away.

seems like once you start talking about such issues, it turns out that a lot of people around you have experienced similar stuff.
It feels weird getting into this on a messageboard but I find the most maddening aspect of such circumstances is the depressed relative's refusal/inability to engage and talk about the situation. This is really screwing up my life right now.

As is turns out, adding a shitload of alcohol into the mix really doesn't help the situation. Funny that. :-(

A couple of weeks ago I visited only to find her incapacited when I arrived. She pretty much drank and or cired the whole weekend and I spent it helping her around the house. She's in a great deal of pain physically but refuses to see a Dr. Thanksgiving was pretty much a disaster.

I'm trying to find info on the topic online but not finding much. My Dad said he's going to try to take her to the hospital tomorrow but they can't force her to stay, can they?

Does anyone know anything about forcing someone to receiving medical treatment?

― ENBB, Monday, November 26, 2007 11:00 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark

So I guess that was my last post on the subject. Well, here's an update.

Over the winter of 2007/2008 she was in either detox or rehab at least 4 but maybe 5 times. During one of those stints they discovered she had a tumor on her kidney and removed the whole kidney. I think that sort of scared the shit out of her and after that point she stopped drinking to excess. She also started seeing a shrink who put her on a bunch of meds including Lorazepam which she pops a couple times a day now. Tbh I think she's still depressed but the lorazepam sort of dulls everything and allows her to function at almost normal levels and without being blotto all the time. The downside is that it's sort of erased a lot of her personality.

My father is no help as he avoids the whole situation and leaves her alone most of the day.

This changed a lot after she stopped drinking. He now pretty much waits on her hand and foot and looks after her all day. I don't know if that's very healthy either but at least she's not alone.

So, in answer to baaderonixx's question - I guess the situation has improved over all but it wasn't really anything of my doing except maybe just being there for her and encouraging the rehab and psych visits. Personally I've sort of had to come to terms with that being all I can do and not allowing myself to beat myself up over not doing more for her because in reality there's not much more I can do.

I guess that's not a very helpful answer but that's sort of what's happened since I started this thread.

I've dealt with chronic depression with a close family member for years. Unfortunately I haven't found any particularly great way to address it. When it was at its worst, there was basically nothing anyone could say that would make any particular difference. Though I think that simple expressions of "I'm sorry you feel so badly" were appreciated. I think it can help to simply be acknowledged -- not have people try to talk you out of it (or, god forbid, cheer you up), or pester you to see more therapists, take more meds, etc., but just to have someone say, "I know this is hard and I'm sorry."

In my own family's situation, things reached a real nadir and then they either had to get better or a whole lot worse. I think the prospect of what "worse" would mean -- the person was essentially confronted with the possibility of losing contact with the rest of the family, because there was nothing else we could do -- was enough motivation to sort of pull back in from the abyss. Since then it has all stabilized a bit, into kind of a don't-ask-don't-tell situation. The person still feels terrible a lot of the time, but manages to focus on other things enough to at least enjoy time with the rest of the family. Not ideal, but I've kind of given up on it changing in any significant way.

Chronic depression is a really terrible thing, and it takes a toll on everyone around.

re-reading this thread this morning for comfort
I've somewhat managed in the last few months to control a bit better my own anxiety over my mom's condition - but I'm still pretty co-dependent as they say in the therapy business: I still spend most of my evenings cringing at what might be happening at that moment back at my parents. And it seems my whole mood - whether I can allow myself to go out or on holidays - always ultimately depend on how my mom is doing. I just spent most of my summer hols being at home with my mom, trying to play nurse/shrink even though I know that I'm not really helping and that I'm screwing up my own life in the process
Urgh.

and still no damn way to discuss seriously detox/rehab - how can people be so oblivious to their own condition, I wonder.

I still spend most of my evenings cringing at what might be happening at that moment back at my parents. And it seems my whole mood - whether I can allow myself to go out or on holidays - always ultimately depend on how my mom is doing. I just spent most of my summer hols being at home with my mom, trying to play nurse/shrink even though I know that I'm not really helping and that I'm screwing up my own life in the process
Urgh.

Hey - I'm really sorry you're dealing with this - it's so hard. I still struggle with this myself but somehow I've managed to inch closer to coming to terms with the fact that it's not my job to save her and that worrying to the extent that I'm fucking with my own life isn't helpful for anyone involved. I'm still not there 100% and getting to even where I am now has taken years. I guess all I can really say is hang in there and that I feel for you. :/

Man, I am right there with you guys. In the last two years I've had to help both my parents cope with cancer, which has led to all sorts of depressive problems, plus deal with the entire family taking care of my grandmother, who has late-stage dementia.

Then these past two months, which I've discussed on ILX somewhat, my wife and I have had two of our cats die of chronic illnesses, had our cars broken into, had my car break down, then had our home broken into and robbed of three laptops. It's just been too much, so I went to my doc and got a prescription for clonazepam, and I'm actually going to see a shrink next week. But my wife just is not coping AT ALL, and she's got a lot of job related stress as well. So it's like, how do I take care of her AND take care of me?

I've gotten her to agree to a doctor's appointment to see about some antianxiety meds, because she can barely deal with leaving the house. This is a big victory because she HATES doctors. I'd say in the last four years she's been to a doctor once, for bronchitis. After that, we'll just see. The words "suicidal" and "killing myself" have popped up in what I perceive as a non-joking manner, so who knows where we'll go from here. I know she needs help, but I can't give it to her. I can only encourage her to get it.

:/

" . . . just being there for her and encouraging the rehab and psych visits. Personally I've sort of had to come to terms with that being all I can do and not allowing myself to beat myself up over not doing more for her because in reality there's not much more I can do."

Turns out this isn't always that easy.

Which is to say that momz ain't doing so great right now and is far away and it's just tough is all.

sorry e. it sucks.

Thanks, D. It's OK. It's just got bad again recently and now that they've moved far away I can't really just hop in the car to be there and apparently it's get whacked in the morning and call your daughter at work day today. It got better for a while so I think maybe I'd sort of forgotten how hard it can be.

damn, sorry e

that phase isn't fun, no. but you have to be there too, to an extent.

once things deteriorated with my mum and i broke contact,she started drunk-calling my then-gf, her parents, her work. I had to go round and disconnect her phone while we exchanged harsh words. it was the last time i spoke to her.

I'm not saying give everything, and i know it's so hard on you, but if i could go back and listen more, or 'force' mum into treatment (which was basically just committal under medication tbph so maybe just regret idealising my options, looking back), or do anything more to help her through the toughest of times, i'd hope to be strong enough to do it. But you can't do it all for someone either, and it's incredibly tough amidst chaotic (jesus, damn near apocalyptic at times), destructive and disruptive behaviour to remember that this isn't that person- even if it's what they're doing right now. All the best. This post is too long.