The increasing alcoholic content / strength of red wine

you're supposed to mix it with water

It's wine, not cordial! But seriously, is that something people do often? I don't think I know anyone who does that. I know it's habit in some cultures to give kids watered-down wine.

Also, increasing 'wine glass' sizes in pubs...

This is common in California. I don't like it, either.

Really? I've never heard of this.

Yeah, it pisses me off this. It's not just wine, it's lager too. Here, pretty much all the lagers are 5%, except for Fosters and Tennants, which are now 4%. I'm sure they used to be 3% and probably less at some point. Quite why brewers assume that everyone wants to drink the strongest stuff possible all the time, I don't know. People were talking recently as though companies were going to reduce this, but I'm not seeing it.

It's common in France in the summer time!!! wtf!

Also increasingly common in the giant 24 oz cans of ice beer.

Having never been to France in the summer time (only spring, and then the Alps), I wouldn't know.

Like, hellllo, just because I drink 3 $1.25 huge cans of beer doesn't mean I'm trying to get drunk for cheap here!

But seriously, what is wine supposed to be? This could explain why I get bonkers so easily. I didn't turn into a lightweight, the wine got stronger.

I'm sure a decade ago it averaged 12, 12.5.

At least, the stuff commonly available in pubs and off-licences and supermarkets did.

people these days like to get crunk, it's all about instant gratification

"the destructive use of alcohol compression"

I love red wine but it makes me do weird things and I'm better off not drinking it. As a compromise, I cut it with selzer which is pretty common in Germany. I've seen white wine spritzers here but not red.

But you could always do that with 8 cans of Ace, or a few Special Brews, or spirits... x-post

It's common in France in the summer time!!! wtf!

Is it? Why summer time?

AIr, it used to be 11.5% to 12.5%, typically.

Or a 3 litre squeezy bottle of White Lightning for about 50p

If you wanna get trashed, drink cheap vodka. Leave my wine alone.

I've been drinking red wine since I was about 10. I'm now 23. I always seem to remember red wine often being 14%.

Found this here:

http://www.shaap.org.uk/alcohol-health.php

Wine which has become a more popular drink in the UK in recent years has also become stronger, containing higher levels of alcohol of typically between 11-14% abv (alcohol by volume)

Red used to average a 12, white was closer to 9 or 10. I hadn't thought about this until you mentioned it, but yes, booze in the UK is getting ever more aggro. In the case of beer tho, I'd guess it was market forces what done it: 3 percent lagers were widely regarded as piss even when I were a thirsty teen. The standard beers had to up their strength to compete with yr Stellas and Kronenbourgs.

But hey! Nobody forces us to consume it in liver-ache quantities, right?

jim, you could be on those new posters about talking to your kids early.

3 percent lagers were widely regarded as piss even when I were a thirsty teen

Yeah, that's true, though you could still get them! But yes, I do agree it's market forces. Like Heineken's campaign a few years ago - the subtext of which was "Heineken - it's no longer a can of piss".

I think there is a popular "fruit forward" flavor profile that is achieved by using very ripe grapes.
Super ripe grapes = more sugar = high alcohol content
Or, at least it's popular with wine critics.
I've been drinking vinho verde in the summer. They're around 11%.

I enjoy Charles Shwab.

Table wine in Europe is between 8.5% and 14%, with a goodly number coming in around 11%. The U.S. also allows a 1.5% leeway with regard to the stated alcohol content, so a wine labled 11.5% could actually be higher. Non table wine can be as high as 17%.

I blame the California taste for jammier, fruity wines. Made with ultra ripe grapes, such wines invariably end up with more alcohol. I prefer subtler and less alcoholic wines that are better suited to eating than show-off ones you feel like you could spread on a piece of bread, but neither popular taste nor the market is with me.

In other words, I'd probably enjoy drinkin' with the higgs.

Cali wines are kinda boring. I prefer what Scik is drinking.

Also, increasing 'wine glass' sizes in pubs...

this is a real problem, it's ridic.

tho nick, i would say, jacob's creek? rly?

Also, increasing 'wine glass' sizes in pubs...

i know, right! VAT of wine more like, sometimes. not that i don't drink it.

Yeah, it pisses me off this. It's not just wine, it's lager too. Here, pretty much all the lagers are 5%, except for Fosters and Tennants, which are now 4%. I'm sure they used to be 3% and probably less at some point. Quite why brewers assume that everyone wants to drink the strongest stuff possible all the time, I don't know. People were talking recently as though companies were going to reduce this, but I'm not seeing it.

-- Keith, Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:33 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

also otm. have said before, but in england 'kronenberg' (sp.) means kronenberg 1664; in france that's the strong stuff and regular kronenberg is much nicer and closer to 4-4.5% i don't much drink lager, it's fucked up.

It was BOGOF!

oh ok

i always thought wine was 10-13% ish, but yea lager is fucked up and really not very nice. not enough decent bitters in pubs. though i think 2007 is about to turn into a jagermesiter and cocaine tunnel for me

are you gareth?

Is that some kind of injoke?

no. your name references yorkshire and... uh...

so gareth why DO you prefer hilary duff to lindsay lohan?

Are they lagers?

New world wines have definitely been trending higher in alcohol, but it's still not hard to pick up a white under 10%.

14% for an austrailian shiraz is pretty normal! Obviously the bolder wines are going to have higer alcohol contents in order to avoid just tasting like juice.

A balanced wine is a good wine, whether it's 10% or 16%.

I know 14 for an Aussie shiraz is normal! That's the problem!

But have shiraz's ever been much lower in alcohol? I thought that category exploded BECAUSE of the public's taste for higher alcohol wines!

The real problem is french wines upping alcohol to compete - though I should mention that this is a problem I've heard of more than experienced in what I've been drinking.

Pub wine is invariably like demented alcopop nowadays. I mean, I do drink it to get pissed but I remember when cheap crap tasted more like Tannin than Vimto.

You guys should move to Utah where you cdan't buy anything above (I think) 3.5% alcohol anywhere but ina liquor store. Meaning your grocery stores stack an awful lot of ZIMA.

It's not just wine, it's lager too. Here, pretty much all the lagers are 5%, except for Fosters and Tennants, which are now 4%. I'm sure they used to be 3% and probably less at some point.

I can't back this up with any evidence, but I'm sure I saw or read something about this a few years ago which said that back in the days when most British men drank bitter, the typical British beer was about 3.0-3.5%. When lager started to become more popular (end of the 70s? start of the 80s?) they had to weaken it from the typical European strength of 5.0-5.5% because British people would get ridiculously pissed as they were used to drinking loads of pints in an evening. So they invented weak lagers like Kestrel and Hofmeister. Over the last 20-30 years these have disappeared and been replaced by stronger lagers, but I think these are just normal strength (instead of special weak strength).

I'll see if I can dig something up from the worldwide internets to back this up...

I think this is the article I must have read: 'The Death of Cheap Lager' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3188382.stm

Good grief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh6aqOR_XFo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVYFxMF6m8

my dad used to be a short-order cook on an army base in texas and apparently the troops weren't allowed any beer that was over 3.8

these days, of course, it's not even printed on the cans in America so who the f*ck knows

This has never been an issue for me, perhaps because I'm Australian (not saying I'm a pisshead, just going by what someone said upthread about Aus wine being stronger). tbh, I never look at the alcohol content of wine. But regularly look at the content of beer.

Nick, you said it was a Jacob's Creek, thats an Aussie shiraz and like everyone's said, thats pretty normal (if at the high end thereof) for our wines.

In fact Ive tried to find lower alcohol whites and I struggle to find anyting under 12%

these days, of course, it's not even printed on the cans in America

The fuck? Why not? What about drink driving?

I udnerstand the point you're making generally, but the details feel a little precious: You're talking about a 10-15% difference in total alcohol consumption. If you're drinking two standard glasses of 14% wine, then you're talking about pouring two 140ml glasses of 12% wine (instead of 125ml). Can you really feel a difference the next morning based on an extra 30ml? Drink an extra sip of water before bed!

That's a good point.

Yeah I cant say I notice much difference in drunkenness with wines I consume, but I do water mine down with soda or water (yeah yeah shoosh I know thats heresy). Otherwise I get drunk too fast.

You're all wimpsh you can't hold your fugggin DRINK

I'lls challenge youse moley!

I've just opened a Jacob's Creek shiraz that we got BOGOF. It's not my favourite, but it's pretty nice, and I'm in on my own listening to music and fancied a glass and I don't have any standard quaffers in

Jacob's Creek is pretty inexpensive here, Nick. I buy it often when I need a flavorful shiraz or merlot and only want to spend $7.

Bump.

Aren't the glasses gettting bigger too? A bottle contains four glasses of wine now. I'm sure it used to be six.

In fairness, I don't believe this evolution is based on marketing or aimed at attracting customers by providing a wine with more "punch." Rather, it's an inescapable result of wine chemistry: If wine is vinified to dryness, then very ripe grapes, having a higher sugar content, will ferment until their alcohol content reaches a surprisingly high level. Riper fruit, higher alcohol: The equation is simple and direct.

( http://www.guamdiner.com/article/article.php?article=150 )

There's an emerging trend of some lagers actually cutting their alcohol content to try and fill a niche on the bar - Beck's Vier for example. Stella and Kronenbourg is just stupid these days but I wouldn't touch a 3% lager either.

Do people really look at alcohol content on wine bottles when making a decision? It's not something I've ever bothered with.

"these days, of course, it's not even printed on the cans in America so who the f*ck knows"

Actually, it is.

It isn't though, not universally, as we discovered during a conversation about the Hop Leaf's beer list a couple of weeks ago (and by checking the beers we had in the fridge after getting home).

it's actually printed on the beer, not the cans

Everyone, get your cans out and check!

At least in California the debate about high-alcohol wines started a few years ago, in tandem with the debate about the "Parkerization" (overextraction, jamminess) of wines -- you could also fairly call it the port-ization of wines too. As a result, there has already been a bit of a backlash, and the result should eventually be a wide range for the consumer, from austere to intensely ripe.

It's a good rule of thumb that grapes that tend to be used to make richer, more intensely jammy wines (Zinfandel, Syrah) are likely going to be higher in alcohol. California Pinot Noir and Chardonnay are across the board these days, from 12%-16%.

For my tastes, the ideal is when you get the richness of fruit without the heat of alcohol. Wild Hog is an organic/biodynamic winery in Cazadero (above the Russian River and near the Sonoma Coast) that makes some delicious Zin and Pinot, both with alcohol content around 16% but without the heat of alcohol in the taste.

Plenty of debate and useful information in the archives here.

It's printed on the mass produced megabrews: Coors, Bud etc. I think I've seen it on most beers around here. The bottle/can, not the beer itself, though that would be really cool.

Eazy, the two big Rs of California Zin (Ridge, Rosenbaum) are very good, and somewhat powerful (around 14%) but without that "heat" you talk about.