TRUE or FALSE: The only topic it's socially acceptable for American men to know a great deal about is ... sports.

(NB this is not about what people actually DO know -- it's about what's considered normal and non-geeky to learn a ton about)

guns

although i guess knowing too much makes you seem a little nutty

Classic rock?

I don't know--I think formerly geeky amounts of knowledge about music or comics or whatever are becoming more acceptable in men born, say, after 1970 or so. Maybe it's growing up in the post-Star Wars era, maybe it's mass infantilization, maybe it's the net outing so many previously closeted nerds.

politics?

Mmmm...various frats?

I know fuckloads about sport, so much so I'm often considered a sports geek! Perhaps it's different in Britain; certainly, it doesn't help me that my predominant sport of choice, cricket, is seen as overtly statistical and, well, geeky. Football (soccer) is the common language here, although there are many who have divorced themselves entirely from it, relying upon academia, music, or other, less widespread specialist subjects with which to create conversation.

Picking up chicks?
Beers and other alcohols?

Of course, no subject is anywhere near sports. And *not* knowing a lot about sports remains socially crippling for men in most social or professional settings.

wine and whiskey, for sure

do you know anyone who knows a lot about sports who's like super-suave?

weed

Why is it no longer true of cars?

Motorcycles, maybe, might work. I am basing this on a class where 6 of the 10 students drove motorcycles and man, it was all they fucking talked about. And these dudes were DUDE-ICAL.

yes

xpost

yes, gabbneb

pie

I don't know about wine, it's got like the same effetteness that could be attributed to food.

Barbecue is an acceptable subset of food, I'd guess.

Badass movies like "Cool Hand Luke" and "Top Gun." (I am basing these all on my cousins.)

And *not* knowing a lot about sports remains socially crippling for men in most social or professional settings.

i think you meant to say "not knowing ANYTHING..." versus a lot, because most people male or female do not have in-depth knowledge of sports, just enough knowledge. i'd say this a fair enough point if you are talking about someone who knows utterly nothing about sports but the idea that people have to have significant knowledge over having a team they like and keeping up a bit is ridiculous.

adventuring?

you guys, another correct answer is pornography

OTM!

porn.

xposts

and pro wrestling, unless that already falls under the 'sports' header

Yeah, a lot of things I can think of could be considered sport, ie cage fighting, fishing, hunting...

Judo, kickboxing...

xxxpost

Depends what you mean by "significant knowledge." Enough to keep a reasonably detailed conversation going, since that's how men often communicate with other men they're just meeting or don't know well. But sure, you don't need like WFAN-level recall of minutia.

It's creepy when a guy knows every single porn woman & all the films they've been in and what film co. released them and their specific tricks (the women's or men's), who directed them, best torrents, etc...

you guys, another correct answer is pornography

I don't think you're supposed to know a GREAT DEAL about it. You're just supposed to jerk off now and again to it. Knowing a GREAT DEAL is kinda squicky, no?

xpost

jesus Abbott, have you run into dudes like that?

if you don't know anything about sports at all--like, you do not know team names, well-known player names, literally zilch--then yes, you will have a hard time communicating with men in those settings. if that kind of conversation counts as "reasonably detailed" then yes you are fucked!

Ha, I thought about porn, but that's secret knowledge -- you can't chat in an elevator about which porn stars you like.

Politics is the reason I put "blow-hardy" in the thread question: I think most people consider it admirable to know stuff about it when it's relevant, but if you actually go around talking about it, I'm betting lots of people will think you're a gas-bag know-it-all. (And if you're really passionate about various political points, they'll think you're humorless or a crackpot.)

I said I didn't think it counted with cars anymore because they're all advanced and computerized beyond ordinary people knowing about how they work, so you have lots of people who know lots about them, but it seems a little more niche now? It's definitely close, though, yeah, totally.

spend some time in pool halls and you will quickly realize it is still very, very true about cars. also sports of course, and in my experience, history of 20th century warfare is a bottomless well of trivial discussion, especially WWII. computers, as long as you stick to hardware and case modifications and not programming or web design, is unquestionably manly trivial knowledge.

WFAN-level recall of minutia

This is an example of "just enough knowledge" being dubious, because the only sport I know much about is baseball, and much of what I hear about it via sports radio (and its listeners) is WRONG. (Similarly with war, eg the Truman Hadda Drop the Bombs bullshit.)

I lack credibility as a fag in some circles because I don't watch porn.

Halo. Halo 2.

NOW THE INTERNET MAKES IT OK TO KNOW EVERYTHING U GUYS DIDNT HEAR

OH yeah, I've run into dudes like that. One was a coworker. When I first introduced myself to him (w/my real name of course, "Abbie"), he said, "Oh yeah, like Abby Winters" and proceeded to name some of his favorite girls from that site. An introduction to one of many further conversations...

hella xposts to gff

what the fuck, that's nuts. that is just five star creepy.

he said, "Oh yeah, like Abby Winters"

WTF?! HE SAID THAT TO YOU?

Judo, kickboxing...

http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/74/90/0000007490_20060920143725.jpg

(but if you want to admit an affinity for abby winters girls online, that's still ok, right?)

J. Justen for the win, people. VIDEO GAMES is huge, although there may be some generational divide going on.

big screen TVs

Yeah! Later the guy got fired for trying to beat up a customer, who was a cop. Guy had some problems.

xxpost

that a calculator in jello?

if not cars then maybe car stereos

My sports knowledge is in a bad place where (a) I can't pretend to total ignorance, because I do know the teams, how the seasons work, most of who's in playoffs/championships, and I'm usually aware of the dozen or so best-known players in the NBA / NFL / MLB, but (b) that knowledge, and my level of caring about it, is not enough to really have or follow a conversation about any of it. A lot of my sports conversations involve me going "isn't that team supposed to suck?" and someone else saying "no, that was five years ago, they made the playoffs last year!"

I want to either know nothing or enough to be functional, damnit.

xpost Ha, I feel so PURE and AWESOME not knowing who Abby Winters is.

Would horror films count?

if the question is "which topics are American men EXPECTED to know about" then yes, sports is pretty much it

no!

xpost

Television, definitely. Though again, that might be a generational gap thing.

RONG

Video games, but it's totally a generation gap thing. our parents are still leery/freaked out by them(c.f. Hillary/JoeLieb's political efforts against them), but even the bros & jocks one encounters at school have all played xbox/NES/et al, and the numbers will only go up.

Something that strikes me about the cars/hardware/DIY aspect is that guys traditionally gain self-esteem thru competency, so it's worthy to talk about "practical" shit you're good at.

i gather that there is not much social pressure for young people to get a college degree in southern america?

home infrastructure, like wiring, plumbing etc
SPEAKERS
guitars

there is, Heave Ho, but the want them to go to fake religious colleges like Regent and Liberty.

I agree with the central thesis of this thread, BUT:

even the bros & jocks one encounters at school have all played xbox/NES/et al, and the numbers will only go up.

is completely correct in my experience, and I suspect that within 20-30 years VGs & sports will be on pretty equal ground within dude culture.

whiskey and cigars

i gather that there is not much social pressure for young people to get a college degree in southern america?

waht

Is it important to make a distinction between topics that would make you "uncool"/ostracized/that weird guy/whatever vs. topics that would make you intimidating?

Comics vs. Politics
Pop Music vs. "Literature"
etc

The fact that I failed to come up with booze earlier in this thread fills me with shame.

POSER

Seriously though, maybe it's a MA thing but I know many a straight guy willing to throw down on the comedy subject of how massive his dick is. I'm actually surprised I haven't seen charts and graphs.

you're all crazy

I! Am! Good!

there's still no section of the newspaper devoted to porn or video games

there's still no section of the newspaper devoted to porn or video games

video game reviews as a section in my paper would make me feel like buying video games. Porn reviews would make me feel like I bought the wrong paper by accident. Such is American morality. :(

Portland local papers(both daily and alt-weekly) now run regular game reviews

While it might be "non-geeky" to know a lot about sports (isn't that sort of true by definition -- jock vs. geek?) I wouldn't necessarily say it was any more "normal" than knowing any other topic in excruciating detail.

I know many a straight guy willing to throw down on the comedy subject of how massive his dick is.

apologies in advance, but is this a "black thing"?

Good job, Kenan.

You are a beacon.

i'm just asking!

notice I was ashamed of the question when I asked it

Not ashamed enough not to ask it, I see.

wtf

Blockbuster Hollywood movies I think has a chance here.

HAVE

blackbuster.jpeg

I'd have to say, knowing a lot about sports is also seen as being really geeky. Say, baseball nerds arguing about statistics and football dorks endlessly analyzing and droning on about their fantasy teams.

Typically anything is "geeky" if you focus obsessively on it. It's different than, say, having a passing knowledge of German literature - if you can answer a question on even the most casual etymology of a German word, maaaan, that'll get you a "nerd" epithet or two.

blackbuster.jpeg

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 5 August 2007 01:07 (4 hours ago)

racistironylarflarf.gif

wait, I misspelled STFU.gif.

I get along with my dad's friends and uncles by talking cars, home theater, boating (and boat repair), fishing, places to go on boats and biking. Also I occasionally let a drinking/womanizing story slip out when we're drinking because they love to live vicariously through me. I think part of them is glad that my generation is being allowed to extend their wild days 10 years longer than they were allowed to.

Also we talk about investing

Magic: The Gathering. Amirite?

BOATING: Christ, yes.

Basically, any topic that makes you appear rich and/or virile is good to go.

Something that strikes me about the cars/hardware/DIY aspect is that guys traditionally gain self-esteem thru competency, so it's worthy to talk about "practical" shit you're good at.

-- kingfish, Friday, 3 August 2007 23:20 (2 days ago) Link

this is really u+k - guys are obsessed with figuring out how things work, some moreso than others, and are usually delighted to talk about any of it at length.

the thing abt sports is that it really ISN'T that socially acceptable to be a super knowledgable sports geek? what i've noticed since getting into SPLORTS more recently - you couldn't have paid me to sit through any kind of game 4-5 years ago - is that where i started to pay attn just so i could kind of have that sports-as-social-glue thing going on, is that most dudes don't really care that much and that a lot of the obsessive types have their own anxieties about being a little TOO into it like i did when i was into comic books or whatever in my teens. i think the fact that it is kind of expected for guys to be able to converse abt sports in some cursory fashion makes it easier for the obsessives to sneak by without being judged so much, but any time you introduce an excess amount of knowledgability about ANYTHING into convos w/mixed company, you are probably going to turn ppl off unless they really share your interest. i think not having an interest at all, as you do, kind of blows up your self-conciousness about not fitting in and makes you see it as something that is more universally embraced than it really is?

i mean obviously it still fits along that continuum of Things It's Okay To Display Interest In (cars, bbq, hot babez, gaybashing)

We talk a lot about gas mileage of big boats.

Also we talk about investing

I think investing is imminently acceptable. Even among those who don't have an interest/knowledge in it(which includes many investors obv.) it's looked at as esoteric and essential rather than esoteric and trivial, not that they want to get bogged down in the details during casual conversation.

sure it may tag you as 'stuffed shirt'/'yuppie douchebag' but that's more about how you bring it up and how it seems to work into your 'identity' (see: bros who quote boiler room and wall street without irony)

I can talk sports all day long with co-workers, friends, fathers, uncles at weddings.... It's got to be a lot like when English speakers "move" their brains over to a different language ("no schwa sound, no schwa sound"). I feel like I'm speaking in tongues.

I kind of savor pulling the sports card when you are/were the nerdy geeky type.

The Chief IT guy at my new job is a former college baseball player, so sometimes that can backfire the other way.

I'd also add "Golf", and separate it from the "sports" groups. With sports, it's something you watch and follow and make up fantasy teams/trades for. with golf, it's something you actually do, visit different places to play, build your own clubs and pick your own brands, etc.

While there's the watching component of golf(knowing the players, etc), i think there's enough personal, physical involvement to warrant distinction.

"that would be considered geeky, snobbish, blow-hardy, or eccentric if applied to just about any other topic."

OTM

"(a) this is no longer really true about cars"

Also OTM.

Nabisco is right as usual, et al.

"I get along with my dad's friends and uncles by talking cars, home theater, boating (and boat repair), fishing, places to go on boats and biking."

i just nod my head a lot and act like i'm really interested in what they are saying. men love that.

On a related note, Jerry Rice called in to Adam Carolla's radio show to promote the new 2K Games Football game, which kind of mashes together several different things we've talked about on this thread.