lions and tigers and boobs - wait, what?

my mom visited last month and spent some time lounging about in her underwear. this was very strange because she didn't do this when i was a kid and in fact has a thing about people looking in the window (i think she had a peeper when she was young).

it was also not very appealing, as my 64-year-old mom doesn't look like luna.

uh, i would be totally embarassed of you if i were your 10-year-old boy.

as in, plz cease and desist, if only when he's around the house.

it's bears

anyway, yeah, i can see E's point

Does he show the slightest interest in your boobs? In any sense? If so, is this a new thing? You've got to bear in mind that pretty soon he will have hormones rushing through him telling him strange and scary things, mostly about boobs. It may be that he'll just be unusually well-adjusted, but at some point the things on his mum's chest and the things he starts staring at at the beach (and b eyond) are going to become uncomfortably similar.

I asked him, and he says he doesn't care, but I guess you're right.

No, M, he doesn't care, he doesn't stare or even really notice, I just know that one day he's gonna start noticing other peoples' and I wondered if it would be weird if mine were hanging out, too.

My son is 9 and I'm in pretty much the same position as you, luna. I'm trying to make sure I change behind closed doors these days. I feel kind of paranoid about it, but at the same time...

Also, it's not like I'm lounging around naked all the time - what I mean is more that I don't bother lunging for the towel or robe if he comes into the bathroom when I'm getting ready - stuff like that.

Yeah, Sara, it just seems like a weird thing - like this kid has been aroun d me and my boobs his whole life, he doesn't care! But then I realized (okay, it was pointed out to me, whatever) that maybe he does. This growing up business is very strange.

Yeah, I'd start covering up a bit around the young'un, he's going to start reacting to female bodies without any conscious control over it soon, and it'll be uncomfortable for him to get constant reminders that his mom has all the same parts that, in other women, give him boners and wet dreams. It's frustrating and unfair for parents who tend towards undress, believe me I know, but it really is the best way to go, I think.

It *is* weird! I mean - he was a tiny baby, for god's sake, and in a few years someone is going to have to teach him to SHAVE! And MORE! It kind of freaks me out to think about that.

I'm all for being comfortable and open with nudity etc. and think that up to a point being naked around kids is ok. That said, 10 is getting up there in age and I'd probably start being more conscious of it if I were you.

In my experience my Mom will change in front of me and vice versa but never my Dad. He used to walk around in his underwear a lot but stopped that (thankfully) when I was probably around your son's age.

i'm a boy and my mom did this when i was little. it didn't mess me up but i was a mature boy. she's still very comfortable being in her undewear around me which i don't mind. different strokes...

but i would advise to keep it under wraps, or use ur judgment, esp at this age.

My mom was always incredibly careful about this; it's amazing I ever got breast fed. My dad, on the other hand, was the Sausage King. And yeah, after about the age of 10, it was just an embarrassment.

It *is* weird! I mean - he was a tiny baby, for god's sake, and in a few years someone is going to have to teach him to SHAVE! And MORE! It kind of freaks me out to think about that.

I know! It's CRAZY. This little tiny boy, who used to hold my hand and throw his arms around my neck and give me big fat kisses while looking into my eyes and sighing "oh Mama, I love you" is becoming a little surly, a little less cooperative, has started to almost need deodorant every day, gels his hair... I dunno, it's just weird.

Thank goodness someone else has a 9 year old boy (although S. will be 10 next month) and knows what the hell I mean.

My kids got to an age (11 or 12 or so) when they got all "ewwww! parental skin! put on some clothes!". Also, they got much more self-conscious about their own bodies about then. When I'd lay out naked by the pool or skinny-dip, I'd warn them to stay inside so their tender psyches wouldn't suffer. My own parents always over-reacted if caught in a state of undress, scurrying around blushing grabbing whatever was handy to cover up. You have to do what feels right to you, and if you can talk to S about it with good humor then that's a good thing too.

You're right - I hadn't thought about talking to him about it, but I should probably do that. He started intermittently covering up a little more on his own a year or so ago, but hasn't ever said anything to me about it.

Y'all are right, though, I will change my naked ways.

This little tiny boy, who used to hold my hand and throw his arms around my neck and give me big fat kisses while looking into my eyes and sighing "oh Mama, I love you"

I just have to say that that is unbearably sweet.

mhmm

It really was. I miss it!

Oh, he'll say it again someday. Right before he puts you in a home. ;)

It was between the ages of about 10 to 13 when we had family holidays in the south of France, and we always went on nudist beaches (we were never 'nudists' as a lifestyle choice, at all). I wasn't 'freaked out' by my mother's body, nor did I suddenly develop straaange feelings. Because she was my own mother, you see.
I think luna should carry on more or less as things stand. There needs to be privacy, but no need for any sense of towel-grabbing swift covering-up shame to be installed.

Also, it's not like I'm lounging around naked all the time - what I mean is more that I don't bother lunging for the towel or robe if he comes into the bathroom when I'm getting ready - stuff like that.

-- luna, Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:56 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this was more like how i was raised. my parents didn't hang out naked or in their underwear, but were pretty casual about "accidental" stuff like that. i could always tell that i was cramping their style, though---they were hippies, and my mom is "european," so i picked up on the fact that having kids around sorta changed how they were about their bodies

Thank goodness someone else has a 9 year old boy (although S. will be 10 next month) and knows what the hell I mean.

!!!!

4lex still hugs me and insists that he loves me, but I've heard "I HATE YOU" more than once... good times. My daughter turns 5 this week as well and I just cannot believe any of it. (That being said, the school year starting is going to be a huge relief - they fight a lot when they're together.)

I was half thinking of getting 4lex one of those "What's Happening to My Body" books at some point. I should stop procrastinating on it, I suppose.

RW's description sounds about like my own experience. I also credit sauna culture with helping desensitize me to casual nudity.

I think if you rush to cover yourself, you help instill the belief that nudity is somehow "wrong". So, if you think it is something to be ashamed of, you have that route. Whatever works, right?

Oh man, the "I hate yous" still feel like a punch in the guts to me. It doesn't happen often, and I know it's more a product of being frustrated by circumstance, but it still hurts a little, every time.

I think if you rush to cover yourself, you help instill the belief that nudity is somehow "wrong". So, if you think it is something to be ashamed of, you have that route. Whatever works, right?

That's exactly what I was worried about. It's never been a big deal between us, and I don't want to make it one, which is what OH MY GOD I'M NAKED, GET OUT, GET OUT would feel like to me. I suppose I just need to have the "as we get older, our bodies change, and you may be embarrassed by things that happen to you, but it's all perfectly natural and normal, but maybe we should start closing doors and knocking on them before we enter" talk.

(xpost to luna re: "I hate yous") Yeah, it's hard to react to that. I try to say, "well, even if you hate me, it's still time to get into the car and go home..." (or whatever).

I'm not sure if I've heard it out of Julia yet or not; it's confusing to remember things accurately with two. But even if I haven't, I'm sure it's coming... I'm SO not ready for teenagers.

I just say "you can hate me all you like, but I love you." That usually shuts him up.

OH SNAP

SONNED IN A MOM BEEF

I dunno, there was no really big thing about nudity in our family, so I'm kind of surprised it's an issue. DavidM OTM really. I was quite capable of disassociating naked mum from girls at school I'd like to see naked. Because, as he says, she was my mum, you see.

I just say "you can hate me all you like, but I love you." That usually shuts him up.

luna wins! :)

I'd let the rule of thumb on this be "if you have to ask, then it's probably time", but I'll wait to see waht Tuomas has to say on this.

I don't believe that covering up in front of the kiddies in any way translates to 'our bodies are bad.'

I'd let the rule of thumb on this be "if you have to ask, then it's probably time", but I'll wait to see waht Tuomas has to say on this.

I'm only asking because it was pointed out to me, though, not because I came up with the idea on my own.

I don't believe that covering up in front of the kiddies in any way translates to 'our bodies are bad.'

Nor do I, but I do think that making a big deal out of it when it has heretofore never been any kind of deal, big or small, might seem a little strange.

Is wearing clothes "making a big deal out of it"?

No, but I'm not talking about just wearing clothes, I'm talking about OH MY GOD I'M NAKED, GET OUT OF HERE.

I'm really trying to go with a "I need my own privacy" approach to this rather than, "YOU CAN'T SEE ME, I'M UNDRESSED!" Hopefully 4lex will eventually think, "hmmm, wait, I would like some privacy, too..." Actually, I suppose that is inevitable. Hmmmm.

Yeah, that's what I figure makes the most sense. I've started knocking on his door before I go in (I always have, but he notices it now) and even though he always tells me I don't have to, I'm thinking it will sink in that maybe he should, too, and also he'll realize one day that a few seconds' warning can be a good thing.

This parenting stuff is hard.

This parenting stuff is hard.

So completely OTM.

since I still have a nurseling I don't really know about all this, but the books say that parents should think about getting modest when the kids start naturally becoming modest, which makes sense.

Yes, cover up more now that he wants to cover up more, but somehow (here's the hard part) get across that naked bodies aren't in themselves bad or wrong.

And, with that in mind, yes this parenting stuff really is fucking difficult at times.

Oh, and also, all the guys saying stuff like this:

Because she was my own mother, you see.

and

Because, as he says, she was my mum, you see.

I take it you've never heard of Oedipus?

You see?

i clicked on this thread enticed and titillated by the promise of lions and tigers only to be sorely disappointed

i'm a boy and my mom did this when i was little. it didn't mess me up

Surmounter, Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:01 AM (12 hours ago)

i wonder what lions and tigers would think about being dragged into this horrorshow.

did you know I once bumped into tuomas wanking down a mountain in spain

yes we know, you called out 'are you finished?'

it was my girlfriend that shouted, actually

I don't really see any "horrorshow" here. If you're naked around people who don't mind, or wank around people who don't mind - where's the horror?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/aldo_cowpat/CA4L2ROR.jpg

she meant like in clockwork orange

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/aldo_cowpat/CA4H25F4.jpg

If you're naked around people who don't mind, or wank around people who don't mind - where's the horror?

Tuomas do you actually have friends around whom you'll quite happily sit and have a wank while they're watching the soaps or feeding their babies or w/e?

"Sorry, Jani, got a little in your baby's eye there."
"No problem Tuomas, happens all the time you fucking batshit mental crazy fucking nutjob."

No, I don't have friends like that, but I was talking in theory.

you said "in public" not "among people who are okay with it."

Oh he does that, but he only theoretically has friends who are OK with him wanking in front of them.

Yes, that's why I said it was badly worded. In Finnish "in public" can also mean "outside" without anyone necessarly seeing you.

(x-post)

Slightly different shades of WTFery tbh.

xpost

Like I said, from what I've gathered in some gay circles wanking or even having sex with others seeing is considered quite acceptable. Do you think there's something wrong with this?

Also, many gay clubs have darkrooms and tolerate toilet sex. As long as everyone knows the rules, I can't see what's so wtf with this.

But lots of straight people do that too. (xp)

Do what?

in a particular kind of club != in public

do i think there's something wrong with people visibly wanking each other off in clubs? no, but i have stopped beating my wife.

The music the band was playing on the esplanadi in helsinki yesterday was a lot like wanking; self indulgent and whether it was good to look at depended entirely on your point of view.

in a particular kind of club != in public

How many times do I have to say "badly worded" in order for you to get it?

Are you in Helsinki again, Ed?

tuomas stop trying to trick ppl into stepping over a line you keep redrawing

In Finnish "in public" can also mean "outside" without anyone necessarly seeing you.

basically you've gone from saying 'wanking in public' to 'wanking outside (without being seen)' to 'wanking among people who have no problem with that'.

What's he getting at is that gay circle jerks being okay if there aren't too many babies in the middle.

being = are

basically you've gone from saying 'wanking in public' to 'wanking outside (without being seen)' to 'wanking among people who have no problem with that'.

Like I said, I meant the second option, but due to mistranslation I said the first. But I think both the second and third are ok, they're just different things.

And I don't think using a term wrongly once and correcting it on the next post I wrote is the same as "keep redrawing the line".

But maybe we should go back to the original question, since it looks like this is gonna become just one of those threads where everyone argues with me, and I don't want to hijack Luna's thread.

translation: anyone noting the stunt i just pulled IS only interested in hijacking the thread

you really are the zen master of this kind of manipulative mindgame tuomas, i don't even think you're aware of it yrself

No, I really thing it should be different viewpoints debating, not different people. But I've noticed that whenever I make an argument, people cling on to the reputation I have here, so you get jokes about previous threads, like the "wanking in front of a baby" one, and usually that just leads to pointless ad hominem quarreling. Also, if I say something that's misworded or badly thought, then correct myself after that, I can't see why people must be like, "Yeah, but 37 posts ago you said THIS!". If the rest of you can immediately express your opinions in one, perfectly thought out and worded argument, then good for you.

well put it this way, the only thing that started off in this thread that's still being mentioned in context is :Children.

Yes, I will drop you a line if I ever get out of Radioenkatu.

thread: when is it no longer ok to be naked in front of my kids
(discussion)
tuomas: (blah blah on topic then) also PUBLIC WANKING IS OK!
everyone else: wtf tuomas!
tuomas: when by public i mean private excuse my bad english, but HAHA LOOK AT ALL YOU SQUARES WHO FEAR THE IDEA OF GAY GROUP SEX!

you pull this kind of stunt all over the place and it's annoying, and it's not surprsing that ppl remember it and hold you to account for it -- and if you don't like ppl's reaction STOP DOING IT

mark s OTM with the caveat that this is one of the funniest thread diversions ever so I can't be mad at Tuomas here.

quite:

Scene: Northern line train
Man 1: Mind if I masturbate?
Man 2: I'd rather you didn't.
Man 1: Fair Enough

Okay, if that's really you interpretation of how this thread went, then I don't really have the time nor the energy to argue against it. I have to go anyway, so bye!

(xx-post)

(he's gone outside!)

hahahahahahaha

Put your umbrellas up.

AHAHAH oh dear.

How did this become a thread about public masturbation?

The Tuomas Factor

I take it you've never heard of Oedipus?

Who are they? Some kind of goth band?

Oedipus and the Mothers is officially the name of my band.

Our first album shall be called: OH MY GOD!!! I'M NAKED!! GET OUT!!! GET OUT!!!

...of my flange?

Whether you like it or not, if you bring up a kid who strips off at any opportunity and doesn't respect or recognise other people's need for privacy, then you're going to create a far more difficult situation.

My child does not take his clothes off outside of the house, he knows better. Neither does he have a lack of respect for privacy - he knows he can come in when I'm in bed or in the shower or in the bathroom or in my room, whatever, because he mostly asks, and I mostly say "yeah it's fine, come on in". I'm not at all worried that he'll have no boundaries with other people, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't scarring him for life by not being fully clothed every moment I am with him.

Thanks all y'all for your input.

My apologies to anyone expecting lions and tigers.
http://www.workingnet.com/thunderbear/images/lion.JPG
http://www.futuritygroup.com/TCWROriginal/tig.jpg

I'd let the rule of thumb on this be "if you have to ask, then it's probably time", but I'll wait to see waht Tuomas has to say on this.

-- rogermexico., Tuesday, 14 August 2007 19:40 (Yesterday)

::dance of joy::