FUTURE THREAD: It's September 2008. Explain to me why I should vote for Hillary instead of Giuliani.

No one has ever said "IT'S RODHAM-CLINTON TIME!" while preparing to anally rape a prisoner with a toilet plunger.

are you kidding? giuliani is clearly the most dangerous of the major contenders at this point

um xp

yeah are u serious man? wtf

Why do people hate Giuliani so much? Serious question. I know almost nothing about him.

because he's batshit insane

kenan are you drunk

closed down all the strip clubs

wishes every day was 9/11

Now that I think about it "Giuliani Time" and toilet plungers are going to loom large in the next 12 months if that dude gets the nom. At least if the Dems ever learn to sling mud at the GOP level.

kenan are you drunk

it is intended as a provocative question. I still haven't seen any real answers to it.

he is literally the song stormtrooper in drag but for some reason also an elected official

I still haven't seen any real answers to it.

i'm sorry, kenan, is "insane sociopath with totalitarian leanings" NOT a good enough "real answer"? i mean it doesn't include the word "vagina" so you might not be paying attention to the posts.

this is not provocative, it's retarded.

You should vote for Ross Perot why because he look intrestin.

you ARE drunk. go back to bed!

I am also wondering what the Big Issue in '08 will be. Can Hillary run on her old, discarded health care ideas?

there is a war

If this is actually how things stack up, the big issue will be WOMAN FOR PRESIDENT Y/N, actually. Which is sad, but true.

NO THE BIG ISSUE WILL BE THAT ELEPHANT THING

http://www.mingthemerciless.com/bloomps.jpg

um ok i don't want to be a big closeminded judgemental liberal and everything and just take this question as a given, but are you really asking for an education on what's wrong with rudy giuliani? or all right about hrc?

its late 2007. you are on the internet. do your own fucking homework.

xp big issue?? jesus christ do you live in a bubble

gff said it

ban this dumb fuck

my favorite political cartoon ever is of Clinton, Perot and Bush standing over a patient in a hospital bed with all these oscilloscopes and ventilators and IVs hanging off of him. The patient is labeled "The Economy."

Clinton says something like "He's in bad shape, he needs surgery," Bush says something like "he's doing just fine, he'll be up and about it no time" and Perot says "He's DEAD! Let's shoot him and see what happens!"

I think anyone who has worried about the expansion of executive prerogatives under Bush (signing statements, secrecy, Cheney, wiretapping, torture memos, etc) should be very worried about the possible conjunction of someone with Giuliani's temperament and record and the power of the White House. More than most politicians, I think Giuliani has an easy time conflating "what's best for increasing my power" and "what's best for everyone".

This profile from the New Yorker of a couple weeks ago gives a detailed recap:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/20/070820fa_fact_boyer

Why thank you.

because hillary clinton got her start with marian wright edelman's children's defense fund, civil rights campaigning, and anti-war activism, and parlayed that experience into championing progressive causes like universal health care and abortion rights, whereas guiliani got his start as a new york prosecutor, parlaying that experience into championing causes like arresting squeegee men, enforcing ancient city ordinances against dancing, and screwing the poor?

xpost oh wait i am taking this question seriously derr

xpost it's v. true that giuliani would take the idea of an imperial presidency onto the next level; for a country whose political and media culture is veering so vertiginously towards outright fascism this would not be so great

nevermind the fact that neither of them has the nom nom nomination yet

actually you know what I may just not bother voting at all since they're not going to change the electoral college and my time at the ballot box therefore counts for absolutely nothing. I think I'll probably stay in and play the Wii.

oh wait i am taking this question seriously derr

Yes, that is a serious liability isn't it? I like the way that Kenan knows the right time to just disappear. I'm going to have to learn that skill.

yes

he is literally the song stormtrooper in drag

This makes me so happy. (Also because that's such a brilliant song.)

It's September 2008. Explain to me why I should play Wii Tennis instead of Wii Boxing.

supports racial profiling

supports waterboarding/torture

book-burner/hates art

created indentured servant/slave class with 'workfare' program

“Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.”

i would be truly shocked if giuliani won the nomination

if he makes nice with the texas oilboys though, anything's possible

my favorite thing about the giuliani candidacy so far is how quickly the hard christian right has said they wouldn't mind it if he was their guy; they will throw away ANY scruple or principle to get next to power

http://www.silt3.com/photos/giuliani_in_drag.jpg
^^^ this photo is the only good thing about rudy giuliani

Romney on Enemy Combatants [Ramesh Ponnuru]

Crane says he was disappointed with Romney's answer to his question the other night. Crane asked if Romney believed the president should have the authority to arrest U.S. citizens with no review. Romney said he would want to hear the pros and cons from smart lawyers before he made up his mind. Crane said that he had asked Giuliani the same question a few weeks ago. The mayor said that he would want to use this authority infrequently.

its late 2007. you are on the internet. do your own fucking homework.

/\ ILX main slogan

sub-heading: shut up unless you already agree with how we do

OK ITS CAUSE HE HAS A LISP THERE I SAID IT OK THE MAN SHOULD NOT BE PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE LISPS THE WORLD IS NOT READY

haha, you are all gabbneb now

fake kenan?

did you get that elephant thing i sent you

Clinton - lived in the White House for 8 years
Giuliani - has been to dinner at the White House

giving speeches right now linking iran to 9/11

steve, do you have anything to contribute besides snarking on everyone else's contributions?

because i'd love to hear your opinions on american politicians!

my favorite thing about the giuliani candidacy so far is how quickly the hard christian right has said they wouldn't mind it if he was their guy; they will throw away ANY scruple or principle to get next to power

polls are showing that they really just dont know anything abt his homo-lovin gun-stealin baby-killin ways

yet!

It's September 2008. Explain to me why I should vote for Hillary instead of Giuliani.

Please.

-- kenan, Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:03 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

haha, you are all gabbneb now

-- gabbneb, Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:26 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

steve, do you have anything to contribute besides snarking on everyone else's contributions?

-- the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:27 PM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

ilx gone insane

first of all - I was quoting somebody. Second of all, that is in reference to some very specific actions on Giuliani's part - actions that are indicative of his utterly shit leadership abilities and ethical priorities.

x-post

yeah but he looks good in a hard hat

Weird things ILX thinks about me:
1) I wish everyone was dead
2) I hate all elected officials

Rudy went on TV and said (relatively) soothing things from about 9/11-9/20. Post-Reagan, that's all that generally gets noticed.

Anna Nicole Smith thread:

good riddance
-- Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, February 8, 2007 9:01 PM (7 months ago) Bookmark Link

its true the world is better off without her

also there was this thread the other day, the Lazy Zing thread, maybe you should check it out

I'm not really disagreeing with you guys on anything here btw
I am the dude who yesterday postulated that selecting the next 1000 resumes to be posted on monster.com would result in a better federal government than what we have now

i meant it to be a lazy zing

i guess my point is, demanding people's heads on a stick is so not gonna happen.

Yeah, but Giuliani's asking for them in Iran!

can public officials be sued (like a civil suit?) for criminal negligence resulting in deaths, illnesses, etc.?

This should shake up the Heritage Foundation's dreams of Tehran in rubble

i think giuliani has a very good chance of being nominated

-- gabbneb, Friday, September 21, 2007 10:37 AM (Friday, September 21, 2007 10:37 AM) Bookmark Link

Gabbneb, you're crazy. We're talking about a party that put a cross on its podium during their last convention. They're not going to go for a New York pro-choice, pro-gay, thrice divorced bald man.

I know it's cliche to say that, but it's the doggone truth.

lol nyc v arkansas pov

xp

I would only be skeptical of that because, then, they have to nominate one of the other guys.

and JOHN KERRY might beat any of them.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/poll_rasmussen_biden_clinton_m.php
^^^^
Clinton destroys Giuliani in Arkansas, still loses to him nationally

I'm not saying that's not a possibility. However, Rudy has to wade through the born-agin's in the primaries before he even comes close to that point. He's more liberal than most Southern Democrats, and the Republican primary voters are going to recognize that.

^poll readers believe ppl know who the candidates are 13 months before they actually do^

RealClearPolitics primary state poll averages
Iowa - Giuliani tied for second (1 pt ahead of Thompson; everyone thinks Romney's gonna win, 2nd place may have strong significance)
New Hampshire - Giuliani strong second (5 pts behind Romney)
South Carolina - Giuliani tied for first (0.3% behind Thompson)
Florida - Giuliani 1st (almost 6 pts over Thompson)
California - Giuliani strong 1st (10 pts over Thompson)
Michigan - Giuliani 2nd to favorite son Romney
New Jersey - Giuliani way ahead of the field
Pennsylvania - Giuliani strong 1st

don't make me post all your oh-so-accurate-polling data from the '04 election gabbneb

Catholic Population
New Mexico - 41%
New Jersey - 39%
New York - 38%
New Hampshire - 35%
California - 34%
Wisconsin - 29%
Pennsylvania - 27%
Florida - 26%
Minnesota - 25%
Nevada - 24%
Iowa - 23%
Ohio - 19%
Arkansas - 7%

dude, i changed my mind a lot subsequently, but i called kerry as the no-question winner at least a year before the primaries started

what is the BAD CATHOLIC population of those states? (Rudy's spiritual base)

i'm not saying giuliani will be the candidate - if pressed, i think i'd give romney a very slight edge, and can still see mccain pulling it off against all odds - but i think it's silly to write him off

Frmo the question, I will have to assume kenan has no firm position on Giuliani vs. Clinton II. If that is true, then my major argument would be that giuliani would inevitably have to please the uber-right wing shitheads in the US Congress, most of whom are in his party, if he expects to form a governing coalition. This means he will have to toss them a variety of sops on issues such as judicial appointments, fundamentalist-informed government social policy, and not a prayer for meaningful reform of the health care system.

If you want to strengthen the hand of people like Orrin Hatch, then vote Giuliani. Clinton, otoh, will have to keep her own party happy, and will spend a lot of time wrenching them rightward on sensitive issues. This seems better to me than starting at the moderate right and moving still further right, as Giuliani would do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/nyregion/25nyc.html?ei=5090&en=0bdd4506958e23ac&ex=1348372800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/398614427.html

"Rudy is the GOP's crazy aunt. Every family has a crazy aunt in the basement. So what do you do with her? Don't give her the family checkbook; don't give her the keys to the car; and by all means, keep her in the basement."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/opinion/04dobson.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

"After two hours of deliberation, we voted on a resolution that can be summarized as follows: If neither of the two major political parties nominates an individual who pledges himself or herself to the sanctity of human life, we will join others in voting for a minor-party candidate. Those agreeing with the proposition were invited to stand. The result was almost unanimous."

purely from an entertainment standpoint a nutso fundy candidate w/a large following would be so so great (obv great from a gop ass reaming standpoint too)

that's who we elected last time!

nutsy fun dough

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/65435/

As I noted earlier, Rudy isn't denying that he had the city pay for his trips out to the Hamptons to weekend with his then-mistress Judi Nathan, along with picking up the tab for his security detail. That point actually isn't even news. It was reported at the time in the NY Post and more recently in Vanity Fair.

The key is whether he hid the costs he was billing the city, putting them off as costs for people with disabilities (not sure if Rudy wants to go there in this case) or indigent defense.

But why didn't they just have their trysts in the city.

Well, you must not have been paying close enough attention. Before 9/11, the city of New York set up an emergency command center in the World Trade Center complex, actually in building 7. After 9/11 this was a matter of some controversy since it obviously wasn't usable on the day of the attacks. (Building 7 eventually collapsed late in the day on 9/11.) And while no one could have predicted 9/11 precisely, there was a certain gap in logic in building the command center in what had already proven to be a top terrorist target.

However that might be, earlier this year it emerged that Rudy actually spent a lot of time in his personal quarters in the command center pre-9/11 because that's where he took Judi for their snogfests while their relationship was still a secret.

In fact, it gets better. While it's difficult to prove, there was a decent amount of circumstantial evidence -- and some city officials believed -- that Rudy's reason for wanting the center in building 7 was so that he could walk there easily from city hall for his trysts with Judy.

So just how do we judge the price NYC paid for the Judi affair?

was n0rman p0dh0retz mentioned on this thread? because giulian's foreign policy advisor was on the brian lehrer show this morning repeating his "bomb iran immediately" mantra and claiming that the most recent intelligence estimate was an attempt by the (presumably liberal, muslim-loving) cia to discredit bush.

there will be worldwide good vibes if the democrats win, everyone'll be more relaxed smiling, etc for a few weeks at least. lots of "positive" pop, like after the berlin wall fell. even if nothing really changes.

giuliani's dropping like a rock

lol

http://www.researchdivers.org/images/Giuliani_leadership.jpg

man fuck p0dh0retz

like really really

Holy christ, he's rocking the Uncle Duke haircut in that cover shot there

double lol?

hold off

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1152633.html

he definitely got his good looks from his father

that was so mean

http://qz.com/535318/hillary-clinton-binge-watches-tv-shows-that-are-basically-about-her/

lol

House of Cards is an exaggerated look at the duplicitous nature of Washington politics (“Another murder, I mean really,” Clinton joked)—but the other two shows are essentially based on Clinton’s political career. She’s like an ER doctor who comes home after work to watch ER.

Madam Secretary, which follows a female Secretary of State, was partly inspired by the first Benghazi hearings in 2013. The show’s creators were trying to figure out their main character when they watched Clinton testify before US Congress about the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya, that left four Americans dead, and Madam Secretary was born.

The Good Wife is similarly Clinton-inspired. The legal-political drama about a litigator and her disgraced politician husband took cues directly from scandals like former US president Bill Clinton’s extramarital affair.

While the premise of The Good Wife draws on Clinton’s life, the current season of the show is literally about her. The aforementioned disgraced politician husband is now the governor of Illinois and running for president against real-life Hillary Clinton. Not a Hillary-like character—the actual Hillary Clinton. “It’s so much more interesting to us if we could make it as real a race as possible,” Michelle King, one of the showrunners, told Vulture.

c'mon guys a reason plz