A John Carpenter Poll

Impossible.

When he's on, he's way the fuck on. Then there's the rest of the time. Anyway, "The Thing" is the best of his best period (the Kurt Russell trilogy) and also possibly the best paranoid horror movie ever made.

Starman is quality, too.

I voted for "The Thing" because I can't make it through that movie - it freaks me out v. thoroughly.

Thing! Thing! Thing!

The Thing.

gotta be Halloween for me

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/images/directors/03/25/they_live.jpg

I picked Assault on Precinct 13. He has at least two movies that are "better" movies (The Thing and Halloween) but the simplicity of AoP13 appeals to me. Ghosts of Mars is sooooooooooo terrible.

Oh, Escape from NY is probably better too.

Plus Assault on Precinct 13 has the awesomest music.

Virtually impossible to choose between these six:
Assault On Precinct 13 (1976)
Halloween (1978)
Escape from New York (1981)
The Thing (1982)
Big Trouble in Little China (1986)
They Live (1988)

The rest in order:
Christine (1983)
The Fog (1980)
Prince of Darkness (1987)
Escape From L.A. (1996)
Dark Star (1974)
Ghosts of Mars (2001) (this is kind of underrated)
Starman (1984) (I don't really remember this well, it might be higher)
In the Mouth of Madness (1995)
Village of The Damned (1995)
Vampires (1998) (this is the only one I can remember thinking okay this is really bad)

Never seen:
Memoirs of an Invisible Man (1992)

I wonder if Dark Star is as much fun as I remember it being. (Saw it when I was 17.)

In the Mouth of Madness is underrated

Yeah it's pretty creepy.

OK, unlike the Hitchcock one, I did not vote pragmatically here. I went Christine and also considered The Fog. That said, I hope Assault on Precinct 13, The Thing or They Live win over Escape from New York or Big Trouble in Little China.

Mmmm Vanilla Twist.

I went for The Thing, but now wish I'd gone for Dark Star. Or Escape From New York. Or maybe Halloween. A John Carpenter-directed Fatal Attraction would have won it though.

I like that he's never made a remotely serious movie (well except for Starman, I guess.)

Really reaaly difficult, for me though it's

Halloween
A on P13
The Fog
Big Trouble In LC
They Live

The music on Halloween just beats out the music on A on P13 for me but they are both awesome.

Already i feel like Escape from NY and Starman should be top 5 as well.

And The Thing

I'm curious what you mean by a serious movie, Alex.

I think he means movies I like (ie, out of respect to you fanboyz, I am going to abstain rather than vote for Starman).

EXACTLY! Haha no I mean that he never tried for Oscar-fare or to really move out of the horror/sci-fi niche he created for himself. Obviously a lot of other horror/b-movie guys haven't either, but every time I think of oh Raimi for example, I still think it's neat that guys like Romero/Craven/Carpenter just stuck with what they were good at.

in fairness, apparently I haven't seen 4 of Eric's 5 faves. Please warn me if there are any others like Big T in Little C.

Morbs, at least give The Fog a shot. It's got very Val Lewtonian overtones.

I will, someday

I actually think "The Thing" is a pretty serious picture, even though the filmmaking itself is mostly about thrillpower. The whole cold-war 'enemy within' sci-fi invasion sub-genre is 'serious' imo, even if I can't really define what I mean by serious.

"Starman" is just "The Thing" standing on its head.

I'm not sure those are my 5 faves, either. Halloween would certainly give They Live a run for the fifth slot.

The Thing is so f'ing scary. Love it.

The Fog isn't very good.

What's not to like? ... I mean, other than it not being particularly scary?

Yeah there isn't enough to 'The fog', a half-hour stretched to movie length.

Most of his films have some kinda veiled commentary to me - but done in a seriously entertaining way.

And yes, incredible music - seriously underrated as a film composer/arranger isn't he? Everybody loves Morricone, etc. but he sure knows how to pack a punch. 'Ghosts of Mars' is up there with his very best in that respect.

http://www.i-marco.nl/weblog/images/bush_they_live.jpg

We're inching closer to the inevitable John Landis poll.

I still think it's neat that guys like Romero/Craven/Carpenter just stuck with what they were good at.

Craven did that Meryl Steep movie...

Plus he wasn't very good at what he was good at.

voted 'they live' just to be objective, but it almost, almost went to 'prince of darkness' just to rep for it. the scene where alice cooper kills the nerd guy from 'riptide' with half a bicycle (a scene so brilliant it is spoiler-proof) and the shared dreams with television interference.

'Escape from NY' for me, which just shades 'The Thing' as I skived off school to see it.

I also really rate 'The Eyes of Laura Mars', which he wrote.

The Thing

I have no memory of Starman and was kinda unaware it was even his movie

Haha I totally suppressed that stupid Meryl Streep movie that Craven did!

I don't think I've seen a single one of these. Maybe parts of Halloween when I was a kid.

it was downhill for Raimi after that stupid BillyBob Thornton hillbilly "thriller" movie

you mean the fine A Simple Plan? o u kid

It was downhill after Quick and the Dead! Actually A Simple Plan s'okay.

oh man I forgot about the Quick and the Dead ugh

It was downhill after Quick and the Dead!

You mean there are worse films than Quick and the Dead??!?!

The Gift's mediocre.

I only saw it last night, and was AMAZED at the awful crash-zoom-piled-on-crash-zoom editing, totally destroying whatever semblance of tension the movie might have had.

xpost.

horribly shitty casting doesn't help either - I'd say its only marginally more of a trainwreck than Carpenters' Vampires, which is unforgiveably bad

Apparently Sharon Stone insisted on DiCaprio and Crowe, and even paid their fees to get them over the studio's wishes.

I can't believe I pasted a Jordan Ruimy tweet upthread smh

Underrated/under-remembered. Bridges got an Oscar nomination!

The love story angle is pretty well done too, as the alien becomes somewhat human but not fully so.

watched prince of darkness last night. spent the first half not quite on its wavelength but then i locked tf in and the last 30 mins or so was terrifying. i did like donald pleasance's speech about how the church's teachings to be nice to people and find heaven were just a cover-up for "jesus and satan are both aliens, but jesus is dead and satan lives on as green goo"

my personal ranking
the thing
they live
in the mouth of madness
big trouble
escape from ny
halloween
prince of darkness
escape from l.a.

the fog is next on my list, but i still have a lot to see

SyFy is playing Vampires now. Even then, James Woods was a little too into the role. Felt bad that Sheryl Lee took that job.

Curious about your next viewings. The Fog, Starman, Assault on Precinct 13, H2 and H3, all great. Ghosts of Mars, definitely feel the budget and whatever issues it had, but it had promise. His Masters of Horror ep, "Cigarette Burns", is worth watching (free through US library streaming Hoopla). Body Bags, meh.

i think i have actually seen the halloween sequels, not in a long long time tho. fog, starman, christine, precinct 13 are on my list. the fog is on prime, and starman is on tubi so they are next in line. ghost of mars is not a priority at the moment haha.

Dark Star was a great demonstration that satire wasn't his genre.

Starman is a film I actually saw in the theater and have absolutely no memory of

Awww, but Karen Allen is so crushworthy.

The only part I really like from Prince of Darkness is the grainy dream/video thing, which was legit spooky.

I saw Starman in the theater as well and have only the vaguest memories of it.

make sure you dont end up watching the crappy remake of the Fog (which isn't terrible really but cannot hold a candle to the OG)

"Awww, but Karen Allen is so crushworthy."

at that point in time she really reminded me of a john byrne comic book character.

There's a church, closed and gated off on MLK in Seattle that reminds me of the PoD church.

So many good bits in PoD, though - "in fact, you will not be saved", Dennis Dun giving a little comic relief, the container spitting to the ceiling, Alice Cooper and co., the body dissolving to bugs, Calder's crazy laugh before he slices himself, Lisa Blount's jump and then Jameson reaching towards the mirror.

Not unlike The Thing, re: so many good character bits in a large cast.

"at that point in time she really reminded me of a john byrne comic book character"

How so, Scott? That made me laugh, because I can kind of see it in her face and eyes.

that face of hers! i don't know which character but that smile and those huge eyes. always reminded me of byrne.

Kitty Pryde, once you said it.

yeah i was thinking x-men!

make sure you dont end up watching the crappy remake of the Fog

I saw this and was baffled about how bad the CGI animation was at this late juncture

Shots fired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mclzKQNbuFI

I like Altman but Carpenter isn't wrong

I'm a fan of both filmmakers, but yeah, a different strokes for different folks thing as far as I'm concerned.

I think he's right about the Altman of Images and Quintet and (sorry, I've tried) 3 Women, and he sounds really silly (and maybe secretly envious of the acclaim) as applied to Nashville, McCabe, The Long Goodbye, etc. And in general: the idea that film is just about entertainment and not about saying anything is...hardly worth addressing.

It is always worth remembering that his filmmaking hero is Hawks.

Also that Carpenter constantly complains about everything and everybody. He's like Hollywood's biggest crank.

Altman could get very dismissive of other filmmakers during his heyday, so I'm wondering if there's maybe some reciprocity behind that somewhere.

I mean, if they're gonna ask him what he thinks of Altman all the time, he's gonna tell them

The one Carpenter film I love, Halloween, very obviously Says Something to young women, intentionally or not: stay true and virginal and heroic, and you'll survive.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:cfy5rgqvohpdqxgu2geb5u2b/bafkreiapg6i5olleix75xvkk3mstjgt5btahy5sbff4q7qfnfq22j5at24@jpeg

Or is that a fake John Carpenter?

https://deadline.com/2024/09/john-carpenter-asks-what-hell-letterboxd-team-debunks-fake-account-1236100936/

Ayo Edebiri stopped letterboxing, John could have been a suitable heir

Watched In the Mouth of Madness recently, love the bit where Sam Neill keeps encountering the crowd of hideous deformed people/demons, and one of them walks by and, unprompted, turns to hiss "Fuck you!" at him.

Happy Birthday, you 78-year old grouch. Hopefully they release a new special edition of "Big Trouble in Little China" this year, when it turns 40 (!).

Continually grateful that The Rock’s BTILC remake has never manifested.

Watched In the Mouth of Madness for the first time not too long ago. It's a hoot. Sam Neill in full wacko mode is always fun.

^ His last great film

i like how that works both for John Carpenter and Sam Neill

i agree that it's great, probably also his most "meta" film unless i'm overlooking something

It was a clever approach to doing a Lovecraft film — kind of adapting the entire idea and pop-cultural presence of Lovecraft instead of a literal adaptation.

His last great film

I've always liked Vampires.

wtf

escape from LA is it. vampires is okay though

I remember Vampires being thoroughly unpleasant. Not in a horror movie way, but just in a no fun to watch way. I think Escape from LA is bad, too, but at least it was trying to be a good time. I'm going for "Mouth of Madness" as his last good movie.

I've never seen "Village of the Damned" or "Memoirs of an Invisible Man." Carpenter still seems pretty salty about the latter, but in his defense, he sometimes seems salty about his successes, too.

Original British Village Of The Damned is a total banger btw

Escape from L.A. is an OK watch for like a lazy afternoon, but it looks like crap as I recall and is not a patch on the OG.

I've seen the OG Village (and Children) of the Damned, which is maybe one reason I always forget the Carpenter exists.

Was reading about "Invisible Man" on wiki and came across this:

Eventually someone suggested John Carpenter, and Chase approved the idea. Carpenter was then embroiled in a legal dispute with They Live production company Alive Films regarding his contract. He had several projects fall through: a film with Cher called Pincushion, Exorcist III, and a version of Dracula.

A film with Cher called Pincushion !? Found this:

LOGLINE; This one was always described as female version of MAD MAX/ROAD WARRIOR, although personally, I wouldn't describe it as such, so don't expect the main heroine to be something like Furiosa, and the world is definitely much more realistic and grittier, than crazy and over the top like one in FURY ROAD.

The story is more like mix of a road trip and car chase movie. It takes place in post-apocalyptic future, where after some biological disaster, America was ravaged by a plague. Group of scientists create an antidote which is inside the blood of a young boy, nicknamed Pincushion in the script, due to his subjugation to syringes and tests. Once militaristic medical organization called The Cross, who want to control what's left of the country, realize how the cure will destroy their plans, they go after the boy. But good scientists, from the remains of Los Angeles, have already hired two mercenaries to deliver the boy to another group in Salt Lake City, to the lab where cure can be created, and one of the mercenaries is a young girl who has a reputation as the best driver for such jobs. Now two of them have to take the Pincushion across country, while fighting with the raiders and mutants along the way, and Cross vehicles searching and trying to stop them.

BACKGROUND; John Raffo wrote PINCUSHION around 1988. It was his second script, after he stopped working on his first, which he decided was terrible and couldn't be fixed. Instead he focused on the story idea he already had for Pincushion, and wrote the script. Raffo sold his original spec for PINCUSHION to Columbia Pictures, for $500,000, right after the infamous Writer's Guild strike of 1988. Apparently, the script was already widely praised at the time, the reputation which only grew in later years, but I'll get to that.

Amy Pascal, who joined Columbia that same year, was involved in buying the spec and later development of the project, and Scott Rudin signed on as a producer. John Carpenter was attached to direct the film, which was right after he wrote and directed THEY LIVE (1988).

Originally, Jamie Lee Curtis was going to star in the film. Of course, this would reunite her and Carpenter, several years after they worked together on films like HALLOWEEN (1978) and THE FOG (1980). And this was after she starred in one of the highest grossing films of the year, THE FISH CALLED WANDA (1988), and I believe right after she did BLUE STEEL (1990). The budget for Pincushion, at this time, was reported to be around $10 million.

Now, this bit of info I could never confirm 100%, but some sources reported how Carpenter also did a rewrite of the script. Besides Raffo's original spec, only other draft available from 1988 is another (later) draft by Raffo, from November, so if this is true, maybe Carpenter worked on the script later.

FUN FACT; Carpenter also worked on some other projects during this time, which were never made. Considering this was between late 1988 and early to mid 1989, I'd say this was right when he was attached to direct SHADOW COMPANY; An action zombie horror, written by Shane Black and Fred Dekker, and with some uncredited co-writing done by Walter Hill who was also going to produce the film, which would star Kurt Russell as Vietnam war veteran battling his former war buddies who turned into zombies and attacked a small town. If this one interests you, trust me, there's no need to go into too much details here, you can easily find many sites, podcasts and videos talking about this cult unmade film.

By January 1989, Cher was attached to star in Pincushion. This was couple years after she was in THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK (1987) and MOONSTRUCK (1987), both of which were very successful. By then, the budget for Pincushion increased to $20 million, and there were plans for filming to start that summer.

In September 1989, Jeb Stuart did a rewrite of the script. This was couple months after the release of DIE HARD (1988), which he co-wrote. However, it seems that the project ran into some issues in October, after $1,5 million was already spent on pre-production. And soon after that, development was stopped, or maybe just paused for unknown time.

In April 1992 interview for Starlog, Carpenter said how even though they had what he felt was a "great screenplay", Cher couldn't commit to the project due to some reasons, so he left too, since he didn't want to make the film without her. Around that same time, Cher did mentioned how she was interested in returning to the project.

In January 1993, TriStar Pictures (and Columbia) started working on Pincushion again, and with more producers involved; Ray Stalk, Dan Merrick, Joshua Donen. They wanted John Woo to direct the film, and Sharon Stone to star. Woo was working on post production for HARD TARGET, and Stone has just starred in BASIC INSTINCT, and they both expressed interest in the project. But the problem was, the script was going through more rewrites (by one or more writer or writers which I never could identify), and they were really hoping it would be finished and that both of them would sign on by August.

In September 1993, Demi Moore became attached to star in the film, replacing Stone, while Woo was replaced by Rob Cohen. That same year Moore starred in INDECENT PROPOSAL, and Cohen directed DRAGON: THE BRUCE LEE STORY, which interestingly enough, was co-written by Raffo. It's been mentioned how the reason why Moore decided to join the project was because producer Joel Silver told her how Pincushion was the best screenplay he ever read. Just to mention, I never heard he was attached to co-produce Pincushion as well, but considering how big he was, especially at the time (example, that year he produced DEMOLITION MAN), maybe he would have helped to push production to move from the same point it was stuck on for the last several years.

In May 1995, Moore was still attached to star in the film, but this time with new director, Carlo Carlei. It was reported how the script was rewritten by Peter Rader, and then by Carlei. The film still didn't get made, and I'm thinking maybe the fact that other films released that year which Moore, Rader and Carlei did, had something to do with this, since those got either very bad reviews, or were box office bombs; WATERWORLD, for which Rader wrote original script. THE SCARLETT LETTER, starring Moore. FLUKE, directed by Carlei.

Between January and March 1997, Carlei was still attached to direct the film, based on the draft he rewrote himself, and this time Madonna was going to star in it. Carlei said in an interview how he wanted her to star, after he was impressed by her acting in EVITA (1996), which was a solid hit year before. This attempt at making Pincushion also went nowhere.

FUN FACT; Moore and Madonna were close friends, and at one point in early 90’s they were going to star in a buddy cop film titled LEDA AND SWAN which Silver was going to produce. I wonder what are the chances that after Silver told Moore about it, she then went on to mention Pincushion to Madonna, which is maybe how she got interested in the film.

In October 2000, Frank Mugavero did another rewrite of Pincushion for Columbia. That same month he sold his own spec script titled WHEELMAN, another action car chase thriller, so it's possible it had something to do with him getting the job to rewrite Pincushion. If you want to read more about Wheelman, I made a thread about it some time ago;

https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/1n2na0t/wheelman_2000_2001_unproduced_car_chase_action/

Around late 2014, Pascal wanted to try and resurrect the project, along with some other producers. They had Jennifer Lawrence in mind to star, and directors such as Gareth Evans, who just directed THE RAID 2, or Morten Tyldum, who just directed THE IMITATION GAME, to direct Pincushion. Interestingly, few months later Tyldum was chosen to direct PASSENGERS (2016), which co-starred Lawrence, and was produced by Columbia.

Pincushion is still said to be considered as one of the best unproduced screenplays in Hollywood, but it doesn't seem there were any more attempts at making it since then.

Amazing, the films that get made and the films that don't. There is now an aching void in my soul where Shadow Company should be residing.

Village is a faithful remake, worth seeing for actors like Christopher Reeve. Also, JC knows how to make the town itself add to the creepy atmosphere.

Vampires, finding out James Woods was a chud wasn’t surprising after seeing this movie. He leans hard into his character’s brutishness. There are scenes of casual misogyny, one where he shoves Sheryl Lee’s character down to the asphalt, that come across unnecessary and a bit too well-played.

I interviewed Carpenter (and Woods!) around this time. I brought up the misogyny with JC, and his response was more or less a deadpan "it's not misogynist because she's not a human, she's a vampire." Still far too much hitting and calling her "bitch," though, iirc.

yeah dunno how much of that is being brought by woods vs the source material vs JC himself but it definitely stands out in a uncomfortable way vs the rest of his movies