Immigration

where's 'they're welcome to stay as long as they don't eat my wife'

Hmm, the options seem more slanted towards 'don't want 'em'.

Folks be nomadic, how else did we get here?

Shouldn't that be on the spider thread? (xp)

IF THOSE EUROCRATS HAVE THEIR WAY THERE WILL BE NO BLEEDIN' ENGLISH PEOPLE LEFT BY 2016!!!

there's no option for i'm in favour of immigration as long as they don't move in next door which seems the real choice of people who like to witter on about diversity etc

What's wrong with them living next door?

-hot polish girls: Y

My point exactly

Why do you think prostitutes are so affordable these days?

I'll take your word for that

Enslaving poor Russian girls is the key to financial success, my son.

because they are shipped here in crates, badly beaten and forced into it to meet a 'demand' ten times greater than what it was 20 years ago

t-t-t-tthat's all folks!

Do you think the influx of Poles, and the ensuing mingling of genes, will mean that in maybe three generations the English won't be so fucking ugly?

Well, the "Italians" didn't really help, did they, Dom?

are you saying Polish men are generally hott, Dom?

http://dawidbiel.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/lech_walesa.jpg

Well, they have chins, cheekbones etc

The Polish do appear to be kind of hot.

I don't think they like being all classed in one big group

Aw shit just did it again

haha

ILX needs 'your favourite London immigrant stereotype' poll. Jovial moustached Turkish kebab shop owner, Polish plumber, skitzo Jamaican shouting at the voices in his head outside Brixton tube, etc etc.

Eight foot tall Somalian cab driver

belligerent italian on internet messageboard

he's not here to defend himself.

though i guess mark c is.

Cypriot beating up women for fun

Only option 2 is "Are you a cunt Y/N: N"

no wait, it's Y, because the 'chav' strawman is lazy and demeaning. ACROBAT YOU BASTARD, I'm not voting.

YOU SATIRIST YOU

Cypriot debating semantics on message board

3 is arguable, though not directly related to immigration. eg state of the railways.

WHOOPS mean 4: Many UK resources and amenities are strained to the point of collapse.

back to the motherland with me it is, then. shame i don't know hardly a word of the language. a life of beaches, souvlaki, and entirely unwarranted bile against the turks awaits.

4 is just about the only one that's arguable, but it's an argument i don't feel like having, due to the sheer weight of variables

What about 7?

haha acrobat predicted a few weeks ago that no-one would want to debate... anything to do with immigration.

7 implies the immigrants are going into a life of servitude.

'pick OUR crops'

but it's an argument i don't feel like having, due to the sheer weight of variables

i read this as vegetables

bit harsh on Dom

7 implies the immigrants are going into a life of servitude.

-- Just got offed, Tuesday, September 18, 2007 3:07 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

which would be crazy. it's well-known that vegetable-pickers get minimum wage, five weeks holiday, and full health insurance.

beats making pants for phillip green

xpost
To be fair, most of them are going to a life of servitude. My parents and most of their friends did.

WHO WILL HARVEST OUR CABBAGE WHEN THE BORDERS ARE LOCKED???

my grandparents went into KNITWEAR

beats making pants for phillip green

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americannovel/timeline/images/beatgeneration.jpg

the irony is the agrisector can only exist via massive subsidy anyway. so the phenonemon there is... complex.

whad'ya think of this?

hmmm... would it be terribly hypocritical to see very limited positives in the buy out idea, while still thinking him an absolute scumbag?

(ie, not seeing any group of people in a country as a 'problem that needs to be solved')

lol - that's exactly what I thought

The guy is an asshole, but immigration of the best and the brightest weakens the home society. If they get good money to go back they could set up business or industry in their home countries.

immigration of the best and the brightest weakens the home society. If they get good money to go back they could set up business or industry in their home countries.

-- Heave Ho, Tuesday, September 18, 2007 4:02 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

you're mixing it up. most of the high-skills migrant workers are temporary anyway and do go back. with doctors these days this is often the case, and they (ideally) improve their home society with the mad skills they develop in the uk. that guy was talking about some crazy shit.

most of the high-skills migrant workers are temporary anyway and do go back. with doctors these days this is often the case, and they (ideally) improve their home society with the mad skills they develop in the uk

Either that or drive explosives-laden jeeps into the foyer of Glasgow Airport and try to set themselves alight - amirite?

i know right.

haha -- fact -- it is my job to 'screen' foreign doctors.

skitzo Jamaican shouting at the voices in his head outside Brixton tube

Yeah, but that's just one bloke. The same one each time, I don't think they run shifts.

hmm, is that the long hours exploitation i keep hearing about then? what if he's sick?

i'm going to doctors tomorrow. i don't mind if they're foreign as long as they got the mad skills.

just to plug my own blog again, how about those cah-razee french, with their DNA tests?

http://tracerhand.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/french-dna-testing-for-immigrants

Isn't schizophrenia something like ten times more common amongst people of Caribbean descent than any other ethnicity?

xxp

10 times more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia.

and *in the UK*

Bloody Arab doctors.

i don't mind if they're foreign as long as they got the mad skills.

-- blueski, Tuesday, September 18, 2007 4:28 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

plus dat knowledge of UK child protection law (srsly blud, this is the major sticking point).

cess'll do that (xp)

oh yeh also re doctors and "but immigration of the best and the brightest weakens the home society."

like these doctors are all working in the famous socialized healthcare systems of the third world?

that's the point

OK all of those options suck.

There are quite a few 'bests and brightests' staying in their home countries whatever, and many of those who do come over are on secondment anyway. I'm an immigrant with full rights, having come over on a correspondent's visa, but I always intended to stay.

The idea that there are jobs that 'native' people are 'too good' to do has to be completely rinsed from British society: dividing up labour (and labourers) like this is not healthy for any person who lives here who has to get on and work for a living, perhaps starting at a crap fast food job or picking up trash. All sides use this rationale as part of what passes for their pro-immigration argument and it sucks. It allows employers to get away with stagnating wages in essential services and is no good fo stability generally.

OK so you've removed the post-colonial entitlement issues. Refugees are always going to come because we promise them we'll help them, and some of the official refusals I see sicken me. In reality, anyone with more than a certain amount of assets can live wherever the fuck they like; ditto if you're self-employed or 'investing in Britain' by starting a UK-based business. I don't believe in pulling ladders up after me so I'd have to say my only restrictions on immigration would be around forced marriage cases and around language skills (not because of frustration with N-EU counter staff frozen in headlights by job-related questions, more an isolation thing for some women).

Police chief fears migrant impact

A chief constable has said her force needs more staff and resources to cope with the pressures caused by a sudden influx of migrant workers.
Julie Spence of Cambridgeshire Police says a dramatic change in the make-up of the population in the county is giving her officers new challenges.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7001768.stm

Racial divide 'deeper than ever'

Divisions between Britain's ethnic groups are deeper than ever - and are fuelling religious and political extremism, a report has claimed.
And the Commission for Racial Equality report rules that 15 government departments are not meeting their own obligations on tackling discrimination.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7001371.stm

Divisions between Britain's ethnic groups are deeper than ever - and are fuelling religious and political extremism, a report has claimed.

the second part of this statement is arse about face. Religious and political extremism fuels division!

a "report" has "claimed"...

"the Commission for Racial Equality report"

these are two slightly different things, the mass influx from eastern europe, and the other stuff to do with political/religious extremism.

long story short, while it suits neoliberal orthodoxy to allow unlimited flows of people as of money, all public sector agencies sort of rely on knowing how many people they are going to be handling in the near future. this planning is what occcupies a very large number of civil servants in itself. the government did not count on having the population increase by over half-a-million in three years.

so the cambridgeshire police saying they have a lot on their plate as a result isn't exactly a big surprise, and though i don't doubt there are racists in the cambs police, i also don't think it's racist or xenophobic in itself because this lack of foresight is a typical bit of government incompetence.

i don't think option three is particularly awful.

An extra couple of million Moslems and Albanian gypsys are hardly worse than the indigenous riff-raff one sees loitering on every street corner, molesting whoever passes by.

die

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

DNA testing of immigrants in France passes lower house of parliament.

http://tracerhand.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/french-dna-immigration-passes-lower-house

I have a question. They've tacked on an amendment to the amendment, saying that if the applicant is SUCCESSFUL they will get reimbursed by the state for the test. But if unsuccessful, then not.

The status quo is that there's currently a system where it's hard to tell who's got real documents and who doesn't. I appreciate that this is a real problem, especially for France. But this bill puts ALL the burden of proof, and all the financial risk, on the poor sod who's from a country where they don't even have magnetic strip technology yet.

This stuff gets back to what The Register keeps banging on about, about how no ID is really a foolproof means of authentication because every ID is obtained with some other, forgeable document. But DNA testing would stop that buck. So - it's a good thing, right? Er.

Sorry to all like, earnest and shit

it seems that any kind of argument in favour of limiting immigration is a bad thing, which i'm not too sure about.

I just said that the DNA tests actually sound like a good thing, from a certain perspective. Do you not buy that?

i'm not touching any of it with a barge pole, is what i'm saying. to do anything useful with immigration problem you'd have to upset too many ilxors.....

What is wrong with you?

so that's why darraghmac wants to kick dutchman jol out

i'm not touching any of it with a barge pole

You have a problem with the influx of Polish workers?

... into the, errrrrrrrrr, canal, errrrrrrr, industry

im an immigrant :(

The DNA tests are aimed at proving that would-be immigrants have family ties with a legal resident of France.

is the only way France accepts immigrants?

if dna testing has to prove immigrants' status, then legal adoption = no longer a valid family tie.

jesus, steady on! i'm not against immigration at all and i don't get where that inference has been drawn.

yeah, dutchman jol out though. get back to holland!

non, blueski, it's just if the immigrants' ID docs seem fishy or not up to scratch

but yeah that's not so clear in my article

DNA tests are done in USA/Canada as well

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

"The DNA tests are aimed at proving that would-be immigrants have family ties with a legal resident of France.

is the only way France accepts immigrants?

-- blueski, Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:59 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link"

no, they also let in EU immigrants. only unlike the UK (i think) they cannily set a limit on the numbers (UK ended up doing this too).

ILX in "hating poor white people" non-shock

i love that the (presumably negative) characterisation of "our own culture" is left blank. britain is quite cosmopolitan, for western europe. what is "our own culture"?

also that ilx picked a really weirdly class-inflected one ftw.

1) "our own culture": whose now?
2) culture as most important possible category: get you
3) failure to see other people as people but as cultural assets: wvs
4) unspecific about improving value of "other cultures" -- it's all good right?: inverse imperialism of some kind

it wasn't blank. it was something about "druken chavs".

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government has injected hundreds of foreigners it has deported with dangerous psychotropic drugs against their will, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday, citing medical records, internal documents and interviews with people who have been drugged.

The newspaper said it has identified 250 cases in which the government has, without medical reason, given drugs meant to treat serious psychiatric disorders to people it has shipped out of the United States since 2003.

Involuntary chemical restraint of detainees without medical justification is a violation of some international human rights codes, the Post reported.

Records show that the government has routinely ignored its own rules, which allow deportees to be sedated only if they have a mental illness requiring the drugs, or if they are so aggressive that they imperil themselves or people around them.

The Department of Homeland Security's new Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) took over deportations in 2003.

ICE has stepped up the arrest and removal of foreigners who are in the United States illegally, who have been turned down for asylum or have been convicted of a crime in the past, the Post reported.

A spokesman for the agency was not immediately available for comment.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6746254.html

Some toy drives check immigration status
By JEANNIE KEVER Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
Nov. 30, 2009, 8:59PM
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They don't claim to know who's been naughty or nice, but some Houston charities are asking whether children are in the country legally before giving them toys.
In a year when more families than ever have asked for help, several programs providing Christmas gifts for needy children require at least one member of the household to be a U.S. citizen. Others ask for proof of income or rely on churches and schools to suggest recipients.
The Salvation Army and a charity affiliated with the Houston Fire Department are among those that consider immigration status, asking for birth certificates or Social Security cards for the children.
The point isn't to punish the children but to ensure that their parents are either citizens, legal immigrants or working to become legal residents, said Lorugene Young, whose Outreach Program Inc. is one of three groups that distribute toys collected by firefighters.
“It's not our desire to turn anyone down,” she said. “Those kids are not responsible if they are here illegally. It is the parents' responsibility.”
The idea of a charity turning away children because of decisions made by their parents unsettled some immigration activists.
“It is very disturbing to think a holiday like Christmas would be tainted with things like this,” said Cesar Espinoza, executive director of America for All, a Houston-based advocacy group. “Usually, people target the adults because the adults made the decision to migrate, where the children are just brought through no fault of their own.”
Other groups don't require specific documentation, relying instead on outside groups to recommend families.
“When you distribute toys to 10,000 to 12,000 kids, it's impossible to background (check) every child,” said Fred Joe Pyland, a Houston police officer who oversees the Blue Santa program. Blue Santa doesn't consider immigration status but collects names from police officers, schools and churches.
Those who do check immigration status or other qualifications say they are trying to ensure they make the best decisions about whom to help.
“We want to be good stewards, so the people that are donating to us trust we're going to do the right thing,” said Sonya Scott, manager of care ministries at West Houston Assistance Ministries. The group does not check immigration but requires identification, including birth certificates for children, and proof of income.
It has registered 686 children to provide with gifts this year, up from 613 last year.
At the Salvation Army, 30,000 children have registered for the Angel Tree program, which allows children to request the gifts they want most. That's up 20 percent from last year, spokesman Juan Alanis said.
Gifts for all children
Alanis and Young say they will serve families if the children are here legally, regardless of the parents' status. The Salvation Army provides gifts for all children in the family if one sibling is a citizen.
The Outreach Program requires parents to show photo identification and birth certificates or Social Security cards for the children. Young said she makes an exception if parents can show they have applied for legal status or that a child is enrolled in school.
Alicia White, a spokeswoman for the Fire Department, said it is up to each group distributing toys to decide how to do so. The other groups giving out toys collected by firefighters — Catholic Charities and the Hispanic Firefighters Caucus— do not ask about immigration status.
Participants in the Houston Chronicle's Goodfellows toy drive were selected by the Texas Health and Human Services Commission, chosen from those with children between the ages of 2 and 10 who receive food stamps, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and Medicaid. People who aren't legal residents don't qualify for those services, but others in their household may.
Pre-registration closed
Most local toy drives are no longer accepting applications, although the Outreach Program doesn't pre-register recipients, so families needing gifts for their children will line up Dec. 23 at 1305 Benson.
One of the season's first big toy distribution events will be Saturday at the George R. Brown Convention Center, when 2,520 children from 63 area elementary schools will be treated to gifts by Navidad En El Barrio.
Israel Gomez, a retired Houston police officer who runs the program, said the kids are asked to donate one can of food.
Navidad En El Barrio draws participants from schools with a high percentage of students who qualify for free lunches.
For programs that select recipients themselves, deciding what documentation to require can be tricky. Alanis said the Salvation Army traditionally has required photo identification and proof of income and legal residency to ensure help reaches those most in need and to prevent people from registering at multiple Salvation Army locations.
Catholic Charities doesn't ask for proof of income or immigration status. But it does require identification and birth certificates to ensure people actually have the number of children they claim, spokeswoman Julissa Guerrero Chappell said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/magazine/my-life-as-an-undocumented-immigrant.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

really great..uhm...article? the bit at the end made me well up

he's the guy who wrote the zuckerberg nyer profile btw

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/us/after-ruling-hispanics-flee-an-alabama-town.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

so sad. really hope this comes around and bites them in the ass

"Obama has deported 1.5 million Latinos, more than any president."

http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-06-06/news/revolution-war-on-mexicans-obama-immigration/?ref=navigation

is there an Abolish ICE thread?

Six voters on this poll who hopefully have fucked off into the void in the intervening 14 years.