Ken Burns' WWII Documentary Series -- "The War"

I like Ken Burns's stuff. He's a good choice to present this kind of material. He does a great job of putting together images and narration that are very clear, historically accurate and unsentimental (otoh, the music he chooses is more uneven and can definitely veer into sentimentality).

WWII was something completely unlike anything the world has seen for the past six decades. It's hard for people today to imagine a war where the industrial output of the entire world and about 50 million armed combatants were harnessed in the service of total war, where armies and navies were fighting across all of Europe, much of Asia, parts of Africa and in the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian oceans, and almost all of North America was mobilized for war. All this was at a time when the world's population was much less than half what it is today.

From the previews, it is clear to me that Burns is going to play up the patriotic side of things, how the plain people of the USA rose up and did the right thing at huge personal sacrifice, etc. But I expect this is the take-home message that will impress most viewers: the sheer size and universal brutality of it.

I think I remember reading that it will focus on four soldiers and their families, all from the US. One of the subjects is from California, and I think that story will draw attention to the Japanese-American Internment camps that 120,000 people were forced into. That's nice, because usually that aspect of WWII is ignored.

However, why not have subjects from each of the main six Axis and Allied Powers (US, UK, USSR, Germany, Japan, Italy)?

i read an article about this. he had to shoehorn in mexicans because he forgot to put them in and someone complained. whatta douche.

However, why not have subjects from each of the main six Axis and Allied Powers (US, UK, USSR, Germany, Japan, Italy)?

Burns is only covering the years of US entry--41-45. America is always his subject.

Ken Burns can suck my clit
I don't know why I have this response - i watch PBS - am drunk

I've been enjoying his things about murrican artists.

He needs a haircut - then he can scuk me

His next series should be about Vietnam and how we really won.

Or one about Hip Hop that focuses entirely on Grandmaster Flash and KRS One.

Anybody else catch the debut?

http://imdb.com/title/tt0996994/

Looks like Keith David is narrating.

how the plain people of the USA rose up and did the right thing at huge personal sacrifice, etc

Eventually.

ken burns' success set the art of the documentary back by decades

Ah, PBS

"Corporate funding for The War provided by (blah blah blah) GM."

i was watching this but i was sreepy so i fell asreep

The Civil War was really good, probably more due to the charisma of the talking heads (Shelby Foote, etc) than anything Burns did though.

I kinda forgot about this. Turned it on for about five minutes after the Bears game last night, it was horrically slow.

It was okay but the thing about the Japanese-Americans felt like it was pasted on as an afterthought.

"Corporate funding for The War provided by (blah blah blah) GM."

Funny because true etc.

It was okay but the thing about the Japanese-Americans felt like it was pasted on as an afterthought.
Really? I didn't notice. This was def my favorite part, but it was the WW2 topic I found most interesting beforehand.
My other favorite bit was the guy in Minnesota talking about kids signing up cause every other opportunity in life was boring. Balancing some of the greatest generation stuff a bit.
Also, did people think these soldiers looked way too young? When did these interviews take place?

Following the pattern of Baseball and Jazz shortchanging post-1970, I expect he'll lose interest after the Battle of the Bulge.

the thing about the Japanese-Americans felt like it was pasted on as an afterthought.

I disagree. However, the part about Hispanic-Americans actually was pasted on as an afterthought--hence the weird Norah Jones sing-out to black, then the "hey, don't go, here's another half hour of show."

I thought part 1 was pretty interesting. I think he's pretty skillful at letting you draw your own conclusions, make parallels, etc., if implying them in some cases. The old photos were pretty good, especially the Minnesota stuff.

Following the pattern of Baseball and Jazz shortchanging post-1970, I expect he'll lose interest after the Battle of the Bulge.

haha

I give Burns credit for not going the Private Ryan route and having US soldiers claiming they were fighting to save the Jews. They were signing up to get revenge on the Japanese.

I also like that so far Douglas MacArthur comes off as kind of a pussy.

I give Burns credit for not going the Private Ryan route and having US soldiers claiming they were fighting to save the Jews.

and for illustrating that everyone knew precisely what was going on by 1942

he definitely does not think highly of MacArthur

maybe my memories of "the civil war" are rosy, but this does not seem anywhere near as good. that seemed like it was swimming in both political and logistical detail, this seems to shorthand anything technical or wonky or strategic in favor of pure drama:

"the allies nearly lost in tunisia, [images of men running frame left] and then... [images of men running frame right] they won.

it just seems pitched to a much younger and more sentimental audience. the "four american towns" framing device, i understand it, but again, it's not like "the civil war" was short on the heartwrenching personal shit (those letters!)

the shelby foote of the show has to be same hynes (mpls represent!) so casually articulate, lyrical even. i gather he's written a few memoirs.

"younger" ok of course not, i mean, less history-nerd, a lower "grade level." it does have a "boys' history of the war" feel to me.

If this ends up being anything like his Civil War thing then I cannot watch for fear I may be poisoned by the sappiness. I like being American , but Ken Burns 'Americana' documentaries make me queasy.

did nobody watch this?

I'm not watching this one, having read the book. However, on the bright side, now we know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.

I've watched all but the first twenty minutes of both episodes so far.

letters were my fav thing in civil war... unbelievable

"American WWII vets are dying at about 1,000 a day now"

Say what you like about the Japs, but they never give up, do they?

this show is turning into the perfect sleep aid for me

i saw a bit of this (my parents are tivoing it for me so i can watch it all)---but it DOES seem a bit dull. there was something hypnotic about The Civil War that just sort of put you in this happy vegetative state taking in the music and pretty words and shelby foote's national treasure of an accent, but this one...not so much.

Haven't seen it but I saw a bunch of the "making of" interviews and stuff, and it seemed v affecting...I was moved even tho I am normally 0% interested in military footage of any kind. Will prob watch when it re-runs at some point.

zoom into the photo... pan across the photo... cut to someone talking

repeat

don't forget the foley lifted from call of duty 2

funny i'm hating on this so much as i'm thoroughly addicted.

samuel jackson! sort of waiting for his voice to appear. eric bogosian i have liked as well. norah jones, less so.

"this is the thread where gff talks to himself about Ken Burn's WWII Documentary Series -- 'The War'"

hang on, i'm still downloading previous episodes

only caught the last half-hour tonight. i really hate norah jones.

the fighter pilot who did all the ground strafing in france is incredible

(it's adam arkin, not eric bogosian)

yeah that guy, quentin such-and-such, is a pretty great interview. the story of how he and his wife met is pretty funny, too.

Ken Burns can suck my clit
I don't know why I have this response - i watch PBS - am drunk

-- Maria :D, Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:11 PM (Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:11 PM) Bookmark Link

maybe you're horny?

and I think that story will draw attention to the Japanese-American Internment camps that 120,000 people were forced into. That's nice, because usually that aspect of WWII is ignored.

weirdly, my impression is that people are always going on about the internment camps for the Japanese-Americans. I must move in weird circles.

My gf is a huge old movie buff and she keeps complaining that the marquees they're showing in the U.S cities cannot possibly be from the time period that's being narrated. Her friend, a big WWII buff, says that much of the war footage is not chronologically accurate either. Coupled with the soundtrack of mostly disticntly non-40's music, it's less of a super factual documentary than a kind of narrative history illustrated with general as opposed to specific footage. I can respect that, I suppose, but there's something about this that I cannot help but watch (the footage is great and the coverage of the American cities) but it's not quite working, like a poem that should work but just doesn't.

I agree, but that's pretty much how nonfiction tv works in general, and I appreciate what footage/photos there are.

As for the boys history of the war thing upthread - again, yeah, but it's television. They're explicitly not going for a definitive account, but a semi-oral history through select sometimes ordinary representatives who are now in a unique time in which they are available and willing to talk.

Finally watching the few coupla eps of the series. I don't have a problem with the style, but then again, I've only seen a handful of Burns' stuff, so it isn't over-exposed(yet).

A feeling i do get is that they're really swinging for the stands with this one. Keith David narration, evocative & muted scoring, plenty of interviews; the production level feels leagues beyond any of your standard History Channel productions. While I enjoy your regular WWII docus, adding the personal narratives and strong editing just suck me in further.

I'm glad they added the Native American & Latino bits to this series. Ken Burns' stuff always winds up used as history texts, and I feel that the more american kids you get to identify with the folks onscreen, the better. I think the personal identification bit can compel you into a greater interest of history, which we sure as shit need. I know that's how it works for me, at least. Knowing my grandfather and other relatives floated about getting shot at in the Pacific in between drunken exploits only makes me want to learn more.

There's no way in hell I'd be able to watch 2+ hours of this night after night, tho. Fortunately, God gave us bittorrent.

My gf is a huge old movie buff and she keeps complaining that the marquees they're showing in the U.S cities cannot possibly be from the time period that's being narrated. Her friend, a big WWII buff, says that much of the war footage is not chronologically accurate either. Coupled with the soundtrack of mostly disticntly non-40's music, it's less of a super factual documentary than a kind of narrative history illustrated with general as opposed to specific footage. I can respect that, I suppose, but there's something about this that I cannot help but watch (the footage is great and the coverage of the American cities) but it's not quite working, like a poem that should work but just doesn't.

-- Michael White, Thursday, September 27, 2007 5:24 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Link

the only marquee i saw in tonight's episode was for "this man's navy," which was released in jan. 1945 and would be accurate for the time frame of the episode (dec. '44 - mar. '45). what is her complaint specifically? i'm assuming that a lot of the marquees are from the towns profiled, where there'd probably be some lag in release...

tho i hate the norah jones thing, i don't mind most of the rest of the music (tho i guess wynton did some of it).

also kingfish, keith david narrated "jazz" and ric burns' doc on nyc.

the things I'm liking the best so far apart from quentin aascandinavianson's eloquent and concise descriptions of the personal crisis of his job are the 10 minute one-off stories with a single interviewee told at the very end of every episode to cap it off. Pretty amazing stuff, all of them.

YAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWN

Maria :D otm

We saw Keith David's starring turn in "They Live" on saturday at one of the portland beer theaters. The screening was sold out!

DVDs out tomorrow?

nb I am not watching this steady on but taking big time advantage of public boradcasting's commercial-free nature to avoid memorizing bullshit about american automobile manufacturers in between caruso solving crimes and professional football teams playing professional football

I do imagine if anybody really tried to watch a whole episode they'd not pull it off without at least a couple of long blinks

have they mentioned Patton's dog yet?

no but they talked about the abortive attempt to spring his son-in-law from a pow camp and his pissing in the rhine tonight. prolly won't talk much about his dog.

tonight's episode, "a world without war," might've been the best.

also only marquee i noticed: "national velvet," released in january '45.

yeah i thought it was really affecting. last half hour is all about the postwar, really sad stuff.

I'm watching this thru my computer(natch), and they amped the fuck out of the audio. I'm happily bothering my roommates with all the bass-heavy bomb explosions thru my subwoofer.

User Comments
(Comment on this title)
5 out of 20 people found the following comment useful:-
Documentary spoiled by poor use of musical score, 25 September 2007
6/10
Author: fred_friendly from United States

I was anxiously awaiting the airing of yet another documentary from Ken Burns. But, having viewed the first two episodes of "The War," I regretfully must say I'm disappointed. In particular, I really dislike its application of its musical score. Hey, I *like* Benny Goodman! But must his music virtually drown out the speaking voices? Musical score should enhance, not drown out, the narration or other dramatic text. Also, I find many of the musical choices to be incongruous with the on-screen action. My wife got up and walked out of the TV room at one point, completely annoyed with the overbearing, shrill score that distracted, rather than enhanced, the experience. "Whoever did the score should be shot!" she remarked. While I think that's a bit over the top, I have to agree that the particular use of music is horribly done in this documentary. "The Civil War," this isn't!

http://imdb.com/title/tt0996994/board/nest/86158580

Oh far out, they actually do mention Willow Run. I lived about 10 minutes west of there for 10 years in Ann Arbor.

my only complaint about all audio for any war thing ever is that they should ideally have all dialogue and other sound effects down about -28db so that people turn the volume up to hear. Then when the first rifle bullet goes off they can get an idea. problem being then the cops would show up, and for people who have actually been to a range, no news to them.

the rumbly bass on the artillery in this was pretty cool though. every time they had a lot of weapon or engine noise it seemed like they were trying for something like a gritty atmospheric; as noted, unfortunately, every time there weren't some bombs going off or a plane flying over there was that WTF music mix.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/arts/01conn.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

I'm really liking all the color footage/photography used.

Also, what strikes me about the movie footage is the same as with most rock videos: if the audio track is of high quality, the video can be however shitty you want, and it will still be worth watching.

Not really about this series, but:

WaPo reporter: 'Ken Burns gives long answers to questions, waaaaah.'

Saw this movie this afternoon, and it is amazing. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-10-18/ken-burns-on-fighting-a-new-york-city-subpoena