The Office vs. The Office

Because I am currently watching season 3 of the US one and it's a joy.

UK one lacks good tipping scenes, US one doesn't have racially dubious bottle-openers

It does have 'collards' though.

us one is a bit bland, american tv is scared of cruel humour.

I don't think it's particularly less cruel than the UK one. The one I was watching yesterday (Diwali) was excruciating.

I prefer the US one overall just because there's seems a tad more humanity about it.

that's its flaw.

Oh yeah, we all need a bit less humanity.

Humanity = not funny

'zactly

How could anybody pick the UK version? The US version is one of the best (and best-cast) TV shows ever!

haha snrub otm.
humanity does not equal humanity. it makes for a memorable tv show tho.

errrrrrrrrr, humanity does not equal humor, i should say.

creed vs. everyone on earth

i think the dudes playing david brent and his creepy offsider are too good at playing unlikeable characters, and so i just can't watch the office uk for more than about 5 minutes

People say "humanity" when they mean "kindness," but kindness is not funny, nor does it have particularly much to do with humanity.

I didn't say that humanity (or kindness - not quite sure what the distinction is in this context - being kind, being humane what's the difference?) is funny. However a lack of humanity - which I find in much of RG's stuff - I (personally) find unfunny. It's the combination of laugh out loud funny plus a dash of humanity / kindness whatever in The Office (US) that make it my choice.

It's pretty much an apples/oranges comparison. The US version has established its own voice by this point and it's a completely different animal now. I love them both greatly, and they both do different things well.

I'm a proud American picking the UK version. Both shows feature excruciating scenes, but the UK is the only one that's halfway believable. The US Office kinda blows things way out of proportion in cartoony sort of way (many times, in a hilarious sort of way), but the UK Office is just too real and that's what makes it so sharp.

A manager buying his own BEST BOSS coffee cop is funny, though I've never met a real boss who did that. But David Brent pointing at the monkey on the coat stand and thinking that he's spreading cheer to all of his office minions, that's real.

The Office UK (series one, at least) was a quite good spoof of fly-on-the-wall docs (though The Day Today's similar office sketch was superior). The Office US is an okay US sitcom.

i thik steve carrell is the weak link for the US version. Pretty much all the other characters are great, especially stanley, creed and angela.

the UK one is def more awkward and sharper, and yknow, congratulations on that. i vote US.

but i mean, i def agree w this

It's pretty much an apples/oranges comparison. The US version has established its own voice by this point and it's a completely different animal now. I love them both greatly, and they both do different things well.

-- Deric W. Haircare, Friday, October 5, 2007 9:10 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Yeah, but do you like apples or oranges more?

do you prefer deadpan sitcoms or funny tragedies?

Humanity = not funny

Cruelty = even less funny

lol cruelty

i haven't seen the US version

does it have gags about the territorial army?

Who was the UK Office guilty of being cruel to, asshole Brent or those who must suffer him?

Carrell has been great this season so far, more bitter and less cartoonish.

Both. xp

both? i don't think there is any real "cruelty" in The Office UK tho, more a general but all too familiar unpleasantness.

Jordan OTM, I was worried this season would jump the shark but I REALLY like how Carell's character is evolving, and how much of a total heel Ryan's becoming. Like you could see it coming, him being a dick, but he's in full dick-mode now and it's glorious. That exchange between him and Jan... omg wow

xp

Yeah, I didn't realize the skewering of contemporary workplace trials was harder to watch than Hostel or Ben Stiller.

That exchange between him and Jan... omg wow

Haha, "love the beard, keep it forever"!

Oh yeah! That exchange between Ryan and Jan really was one of my favorite parts of the episode!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I went with UK. I've only seen the first two seasons of each, but I watched them over the course of a weekend while I was sick. Steve Carell and John Krasinski's eyebrows really bugged me out. That might've been the Nyquil talking, but I'm convinced. I also feel like the pacing was more fluid in the UK version.

I'll have to check out the later seasons of he US version though. Why was the UK version cancelled after only two seasons?

That one-second shot of Gareth leaving the bar in the motorcycle car still cracks me up

Didn't Gervais end it himself? Extras only ran for two seasons as well (with an upcoming special in the works).

(x-post)

Yeah, that was sweet. Dwight's never tried (and failed) to be such a player.

That one-second shot of Gareth leaving the bar in the motorcycle car still cracks me up

-- Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:36 PM (Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:36 PM) Bookmark Link

me and my ex had this permanently saved on our dvr just for that moment. maybe one of my favorite tv moments of all time.

write in: La Job

though yeah, Creed bumps US over UK

It's pretty much an apples/oranges comparison.

If you can't compare two comedy tv shows with the same characters, the same set-up, the same jokes - even sometimes the same lines - good luck comparing, say, anything else in the whole world.

The one where Michael Scott has to fire someone on Halloween was on TBS tonight. Brilliant, lads.

haven't watched a lot of it but US one is obviously funnier

"The Office"(UK) was of course a second-rate "People Like Us".

Still good, though.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Much closer than I expected.

What odious stuff has he done?

I was kinda familiar with the bleakness of uk comedy from watching peep show etc but even then....there are some harrowing moments in this uk office. David Brent is just a horroshow of a human—selfish, vain, manipulative, dishonest

Right, but the series suggests (to me, anyway) a level of self-awareness and maybe even humility.

His recent-ish decline is chronicled here:

https://thebaffler.com/latest/what-happened-to-ricky-gervais-james

my kid got hooked on this at the end of last year and I wound up wathing the last few seasons which I hadn't seen while broadcast and I agree this series went out pretty strong even though it certainly wavered at times.

His stand-up comedy is excruciating, his movies are instantly forgettable, and his smug, dorm-room atheism makes any self-respecting unbeliever want to convert to Wahhabi Islam just as a personal fuck you.

lol

Agree with people about US Office getting worse and then better again. Robert California and Catherine Tate’s character were later season highlights, but it really peaked around the fourth season.

The bleakness of the UK version was too uncomfortably real and the sentimentality was difficult to stomach. Gervais is definitely someone to culturally forget outside of this role. I preferred the US Office for its hysterical melodrama. That episode where Michael and Jan throw a dinner party is one of my favourite moments of 00s TV.

Little fat man who sold his soul
Little fat man who sold his dream

Pathetic little fat man
No one's bloody laughing
The clown that no one laughs at
They all just wish he'd die

He's so depressed at being hated
Fatso takes his own life
He blows his stupid brains out
But the twat would probably miss

A weird case where naming some of the cast executive producers with story responsibility late in the game fixed rather than caused a lot of the show's problem

There were writers in the cast from the first episode - I don't think any of the non-writing actors got added to the writing staff late on?

the Baffler piece doesn't even go near odious things like Gervais relentlessly physically bullying his employees, or hiring a one-man PR firm to create a fansite and twitter account for him and then retweeting that site's tweets daily with notes about how they're thoughtful appreciations of his art

No, I mean the stars who weren't writers got added as producers, and Jenna Fischer (for one) was reportedly extremely hands-on in wanting to get away from silly sit-commy stuff and get back into the character-driven tension.

I honestly don't think the US version (esp season 1) is all that less bleak or uncomfortable than the UK version

Tbf, a lot of s1 is a direct remake. The US show already gets way softer by s2 imo: for a start, Jim is a pretty-boy romantic underdog hero, less of a bullied sad sack whose crush on the receptionist is an object of mockery for the entire office.

Tbh I just rewatched the dinner party ep and it's not as good/funny as I remembered

"Gervais is definitely someone to culturally forget outside of this role."

I give him Extras too

I missed this the first time round, but binged seasons 2-4 without coming up for air - they're pretty great on a comedy and soap opera level, but no specific individual episode sticks out. I kinda lost interest after Michael breaks up with Holly.

I'd tell you when to dive back toward the end of the series, but I don't remember when or what specifically happened to make it stop sucking.

The selling of Dunder MIfflin and introduction of Catherine Tate, IMO.

Gareth, are all these questions going to be about war?

Starting to become very "WATCH ANOTHER SHOW" about this one, you guys.

about which one

the american office

yeah, they should cancel this already

"the american office" always sounds like a grim frontline documentary

even more so with the Season One title

yeah, they should cancel this already

― We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Monday, April 22, 2019 1:05 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they should cancel the memes!

I like how in the UK version they portray true contempt. Like in “New Girl,” the new girl is not bemusedly frustrated with David and Gareth, she fucking despises them.

otm, one of the best elements of this show.

also Gareth is pathetic in a way that Dwight doesn't manage to achieve. Dwight's irritating and OTT obnoxious, Gareth however could make you murder him if you had to spend 10 minutes with him.

The look of murder in her eyes is never broken. I imagine it took several takes to get it that intense—it’s a definite directorial choice.

Yeah good point neanderthal. Gareth is repulsive.

I've never like intentionally watched US The Office for long periods of time, but every time it's on, it feels like someone is running a cheese grater across my head. the further the show went on, the characters didn't feel lived in, they just tack on more awkward quirks on them as if this is a Kids in the Hall sketch.

I was a much bigger fan of UK The Office Series 1 than Series 2, but give me Gareth and Tim over Dwight and Jim anyday.

The same friend who got me to watch the American version leant me both seasons of the British, which I just finished. I still have to watch the Christmas special.

For me, not close: the American is much better. Nine seasons vs. two (and only 12 episodes at that) isn't a fair comparison in terms of what you can accomplish, but I'm sure for many people, nine is the problem, not the two, so maybe that's a wash. Putting that aside, the two biggest issues for me:

1) Gervais vs. Carell. The British version takes the far more difficult route, and it works, but that didn't make the experience any better for me: David Brent is exceptionally unpleasant, whereas there's something basically likeable about Michael Scott. I could name lots of movie pairings where I resist the second and easier strategy, but here I just didn't like watching Gervais.

2) Tied in with nine vs. two: past the four principals, the secondary British characters are ciphers. The secondary American characters, even if they settle into predictability eventually--and Andy's really hit or miss--they're very well written.

Lots else I could go on about, but I'll limit the comparison to that.

I prefer the US one overall just because there's seems a tad more humanity about it.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, October 4, 2007 11:08 AM (sixteen years ago)

that's its flaw.
― max r, Thursday, October 4, 2007 11:10 AM (sixteen years ago)

I understand both those points of view--but, as I say, this is one time where I prefer the first.

Watched the Christmas special tonight, the extra disc with S2.

It pinpointed for me why I had such a hard time with Gervais's character: it's not just that he's unlikeable, it's that the show treats him as an exercise in humiliation. And not just him--same thing with the one woman he met up with through the agency, same thing with other characters throughout.

There were some things I liked, though. I really didn't expect the Tim/Dawn resolution, the show being what it is--glad they gave in on that. Loved Slade at the Christmas party, the Yazoo song too--had to look that up to remember who it was. (Actually, the music felt very authentic in a couple of the pub scenes in S1.) And while I didn't actually laugh very often throughout the series, the special had what I thought was the best joke in the whole thing: "I'm sorry, could we not talk about my dead mother's breasts?"

I think the most important moment of the specials is not tim/dawn but david telling finchy "why don't you fuck off?" - it's not exactly redemption but it shows for the first time that there's some hope for him as a person.

That was important too, and also had its parallel in the American series when Michael more or less says the same to Todd Packer.

When The Office was on TV I was working in an office for the first time and hating it, the people I worked with were never going to be my friends, and it was good to have something on TV that reflected that experience, if it had been presented as anything other than a pit of despair, that would have been a turnoff. I never found it actually funny on the whole, but the unlikability of Brent was key, I did not want to like the boss. For me the real villain of the show is Neil though.

Why do you think of Neil as a villain? He seems like a pretty good all-round guy to me.

He always played as a total slimeball to me, just a more socially accepted version of the kind of wanker boss Brent is; he’s smug & pass agg & clearly enjoys humiliating Brent, laughs it up with finch & his grim misogynist banter &c

I think it’s quite probable gervais & merchant don’t see it that way, they clearly think homophobic bully Tim is a “good bloke” eg

The Christmas ones don’t work for me because at its heart this is a misanthropic show by and about unpleasant ppl so the schmalz feels really off

Deep down Brent knows that the work they are doing is pointless, this is why he doesn't take it seriously. Neil is a company man, all his smarm and reasonable boss stuff just serves to underline how much he is a company man, and the company is the architect of this hell. I have worked with both in my time, the Brents are just annoying, the Neils are the ones that make it unbearable.

otm

It’s been a really long time since I watched the UK office, but it affected me in a way I don’t think other shows have. Even though I can’t remember as many of the specifics anymore, I remember the feeling it gave me, like a tragedy that moved at a glacial pace the entire way through (notwithstanding the non tragic ending).

I haven’t seen enough of the US office to really compare, but my feeling is that it doesn’t have that deeper tragic undertone. I don’t think American culture acknowledges quiet desperation. I think we do everything we can to avoid even letting it sit in the back of our minds, which in some ways seems darker.

Yeah from what I recall of the US OFFICE it had people smiling, goofing and plain old sitcom style editing/musical cues and it just wasn’t the same thing.

David Brent is exceptionally unpleasant, wheres there's something basically likeable about Michael Scott

correct in finding and completely wrong in conclusion imo

why call it the office at all if it was just going to be a gutless sitcom

David Brent is genuinely haunting

This thread has given me more of an appreciation for the British version, I think, at least in terms of thinking about it--I don't know that I'd actually enjoy watching any more a second time.

I've had a couple of jobs in my life that were Office-like, one in a commercial/residential high-rise in Toronto, the other proofreading advertising flyers for a big retailer--both in my 20s, before I settled into teaching. The people I worked with were a mix of those I genuinely liked and those who made no impression on me. Long time ago, but I don't remember a visceral dislike of anyone--probably just got lucky. The American version defintely emphasizes the friendlier half of the equation (with lots of cringe-worthy awkwardness and nastiness in the mix--it's not Disney), but I think that has truth to it. It wasn't my experience that working in an office was a wholly miserable experience.

Haven't mentioned: I loved hearing "Handbags and Gladrags" at the beginning and end of each episode. Not sure if they tried to get rights to the original, but the cover was good enough.

the uk version had that cold fluorescent lightning to it also, just a more grim atmosphere imo

The Christmas ones don’t work for me because at its heart this is a misanthropic show by and about unpleasant ppl so the schmalz feels really off.

Very much agreed. The last episode of the second UK series was satisfying as the bleak outcome for the Wernham Hogg crew - Brent made redundant, Tim and Dawn failing to connect, the odious Neil victorious - was really the only way that this scenario would have played out in real life.

Overturning this to give them all a sense of tacked-on redemption in the Christmas specials undermined the central premise behind each of their characters. It also marked the moment when Gervais started to succumb to the crowd-pleasing schmalz of pretty much all of his subsequent TV work.

My defence of the last episode is that the happy endings feel somewhat earned. Brent has learned to listen and to question (a little) the toxic masculine culture led by finch. Dawn has finally realised that her fiancé does not care about her dreams. It doesn't fit with the grim tone of the show but it offers a little hope that people can grow, without in any way endorsing the office environment, which is if anything worse with Gareth in charge.

Gervais has obviously not learned from this either in his subsequent work or his own life choices, suspect that Merchant is the mvp here.

I think the Brent character works because he's a very real type of person, a guy who was probably made to feel fundamentally unloved in his youth, and his desperation for love becomes a vicious cycle of making him less lovable. There's this little vague twinkle of self-awareness of how hard he's trying there, but not enough that he can escape it, because his neediness is just way stronger than anything else. He reminds me of someone I know in this way. Whereas Neil is just the cold, practiced, somewhat psychopathic face of corporate capitalism. Neil is fully absorbed into it and handles it with ease. Neil is impervious to love and people love him for it, or at least admire him in a way.

I was about to post that I suspect the character is a bit close to home for Gervais, and then I looked at his Wikipedia page, and sure enough, there's this: "Gervais has mentioned in interviews that, as an 11-year-old, he asked why his siblings were so much older than he was; his mother bluntly told him that he "was a mistake".["

sadly it’s hard not to agree with her

i thought the original was kind of amazing. it felt really raw and brutal at times but was still a comedy. which is more common now on television but it wasn't then. and not knowing who the hell gervais was, i was so impressed by his commitment to the character. knowing who he is now...i probably wouldn't bother ever watching it again. but it sure was an experience at the time!

Yeah it does hit quite differently knowing Gervais is just playing himself, and I do have to wonder about the relationship between him and Merchant, at the time and since - they did work together for another decade, but seem to have done nothing together since then. Because the person who wrote The Office clearly does not respect this character at all, and the person who wrote After Life has immense respect but no concept of the ridiculousness of the central character.