I think the idea of a gay community is bullshit

that you like to fuck boys. probbly thats all. i have always thought of the concept of "gay community" as being more localised anyway, like "the gay community of...." wherever. not that i have ever felt like i was part of a gay community, in fact most of the gay people i know feel quite disparate from the actual "gay scene" of dunedin. but then i wonder how connected with it the people i see as being a part of it actually feel. i see your point. we can't assume to have lots in common with someone just because we might share say one identity ctaegory.

But any community is of course only a perception. What does a suburban gym queen who likes poetry share with a suburban gym queen who likes rugby, other than the two facts that they're gay and they go to the gym? The important factor is not shared characteristics or experiences (although I'd say that the experience of being gay - especially the experience of being in the closet and then coming out - is significant enough to provide *some* sort of common ground) but rather the perception that you exist (or don't exist) within a community.

You're free of course to choose not to be part of that community, or to have a qualified membership, or whatever you want really, but I'd personally refrain from attempting to take away something that primarily exists in people's heads.

It's funny, but I have fewer gay friends in San Francisco than I had in suburban Connecticut. Actually, it isn't funny.

i am, of course not qualified to answer, but does tim ever say anything other than exactly total sense?

Well, he liked that J-Lo single, so that has to be held against him. Otherwise, quite right.

Do you really think so anthony? As you are probably already aware, there is a very large gay community here in TO (primarily the Church St. area) and it certainly does seem to provide *something* to a lot of people. A sense of normalcy perhaps? Tacit rather than explicit freedoms? The ability to go grocery shopping or romantic dining with your partner without being ogled by voyeurs? Support networks? Catered medical services? Social gatherings? Pertinent cultural / entertainment events? This is always the impression that I've had anyway, and I'm speaking only from observance of some friends that live there, but it's not like they limit themselves to that community alone. I can see how that might seem like a negative if it's true for too many people, but really it doesn't seem like such a bullshit idea overall.

I think what I really can't stand is gay marketing: the "Will & Grace"-ization of gay culture, body fascism, the White Party, the Black Party, the whole tacky social whirl. It's embarrassing, there's so much to hate. It's hard not to be a snob. Gay Pride Weekend is particularly hellacious.

The "gay community"--as described by Kim--I'm fine with. I mean, I used to loathe the idea of a gay community, I was a snotty little "post-queer" homosexual punk rockerrockerrocker from my early teens. Now it just seems silly. I just don't think it's much fun or very useful being that separatist anymore. It's feels old-fashioned.

I for one am getting pretty sick of being told how to be a "good little homosexual". The so called GLBT movement wants to live in peace without being judged or punished. They are hipocrates. GLBT culture is more judgemental than any straight people i've ever met. Because I dress differently and listen to music that's not Bitchhouse, I don't fit in the vapid,vacuouse,self absorbed drivel that is the "gay community". Boo! Hoo! I also believe that the sexual revolution went too far. Society took sex and sexuality (which are personal and private thank you very much)and turned them into yet another nifty little box to put people in. I don't and WON'T live in a box. Why isn't who I am beyond race,religion,politics and,yes even sexuality, Ever enough?If we can't even stop labeling ourselves, Then what the hell are we doing asking for equality?

Any minority "community" has the same problem - what's the similarity between myself and the other Hispanic girls at work other than we're all supposedly Hispanic? You do what you want, all social groups have their "this is how they act" perception going, and you can choose to ignore it or not.

"Why isn't who I am beyond race,religion,politics and,yes even sexuality, Ever enough?If we can't even stop labeling ourselves, Then what the hell are we doing asking for equality?"

I don't think it's the gay community or the sexual revolution that have brought this about, Jason.

(QUEER THEORY TO THREAD!!!)

GLBT culture is more judgemental than any straight people i've ever met

I know it seems that way, in fact I've said those same words. You have to build your own community from people who are real, who either share your values or don't judge yours. There's a shiny new GLBT center near my house here in San Francisco, and I haven't set foot inside yet... but I will. I don't want to swing so far the other way that I'm judging the people I'm assuming I'll meet inside.

Then you go in and the first person you meet asks you if you like Erasure and you run screaming...nah, I tease. :-) It'll be good.