High school shooting in Finland.

Also, he has apparently put some pics online which refer to the Virginia Tech killer. The way this has become an international "fad" is sick.

I hope your people are OK and I hope that the death toll does not rise.

How available are guns Finland, I presume there is a lot of hunting weaponry?

There's a lot of hunting weaponry, but the reports says it was a handgun, which are very rare here. I think you have to belong to a shooting club to get one. Apparently this was the case with the killer, according to an interview of his classmate.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FErcNl3Tjh0

creepy shit!

The police has now confirmed that the shooter has been caught. Hopefully the four injured people will make it.

I can't believe the video hans't been taken down already.

ew. this one of his videos is the most disturbing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XsdzKneVsw

My friend just called me. Thankfully I remembered wrong, her dad works in neighbouring school, so he's okay. She was still a bit shocked still, it's her old high school, and her mum works just across the street (she's fine too).

one reported death so far? hope the numbers don't grow from what we've heard.

The way this has become an international "fad" is sick.

yes wtf

Apparently the person confirmed dead is the school principal. Eyewitnesses are saying two students are also dead, but this hasn't been confirmed.

every time such a case gets in the news I wonder what could be done to stop this: could fast response biting parodies across internet social networks be able to dull the hook of that meme, and demotivate potential hosts? i thought that cho blingee was a step in that direction, but yeah

Apparently this guy had anticipated that he would be lumped together with other similar cases; before he went on his killing spree he'd written somewhere on the net that what he will do is much "more" than just your regular American-style high school shooting. Yet to everyone else it's exactly that.

What I find kinda morbidly intriguing is how predictable killer's profile is: he's a gun-nut social Darwinist who worships Hitler and Stalin, and believes inferior people should be gotten rid of. How perfectly original.

I'm pretty sure Finnish gun regulations will get stricter after this. There's no major gun enthusiast lobby here that would oppose such a change. I think the fact that there's so little gun violence here might've even made it so that guns are relatively easy to get without safety checks.

seven people killed just reported on radio?

The latest info is that the death count is up to seven. Fuck.

My friend, who's originally from Jokela, reminded me that before this the town was best known for a train accident that happened there in the 90s, where several people also died. That's pretty rough for one small town.

(x-post)

I was looking for a thread from a past school shooting to revive with Tuomas being a dick on... anyone find one?

Probably be easier to find one with you being a dick, so start from there?

Sipila said that Finland, which has a population of about five million, has around two million firearms, although gun laws are tough. "We do not know where he got it from," he said.

xpost I don't usually post on clusterfuck threads!

Fuck you, Jon.

There are cases like this in the Finnish news, but in almost all of them the killer has managed to kill only one or two people (for example with an axe).

ah, well that's okay then.

I know it's morbid mathematics, but wouldn't you prefer 2 dead people to 33 dead people?

-- Tuomas, Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:23 PM (6 months ago) Bookmark Link

are you trying to make any sort of point about this besides being a cock to Tuomas?

So now we have a youtube video of the possible shooter. WHERE DID HE GET THAT IDEA

The videos are gone already. What were they?

Tuomas, I hope everyone close to you and yours are okay.

and some eugenicist manifesto

the shooter out in the woods demonstrating his ability to perforate an apple at what appears to be a distance of about 15-20 feet

that or Finland has giant apples

BBC site says at least 8 dead now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7082795.stm

http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135231626922.jpeg

This is apparently the Virginia Tech killer reference, according to the Finnish media he wore a similar t-shirt, though I'm not familiar enough with that case to know if it's true.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/350/pasungunyq7.jpg ceci n'est pas un gun

http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135231626922.jpeg

Chris Pontius's retarded younger brother?

This is the first killing spree in Finland which clearly follows the pattern of the American school shootings. There have been a few cases of anonymous mass killings in the recent history, but they've been a bit different. In 2002, a young man walked into a local shopping mall with a home-made bomb, which exploded killing him and six other people. However, he left no videos, manifestos or suicide notes behind, and it has even been speculated that he wasn't planning to use the bomb there, but it went off accidentally. In the nineties there were two indicents were someone went insane and shot four or five random people, but those two were more like cases where someone flips off spontaneously in situation where he happens to possess a gun: in the first case a guy ran off from his military training with a rifle and killed some people on the way, and in the other one a woman went crazy on a shooting range and started to fire the people around her. Both of them were captured alive, and there was no indication that neither one had planned the deed in advance.

So I think the speculation on the Virginia Tech thread about how this has become sort of an official cultural pattern to follow for young men who go nuts might've not been that far-fetched. I'm not sure how recognizing such a pattern would help to stop these indicents though.

it was never far-fetched. when a suicide makes the news, the suicide rate goes up, and published details of the death are often copied. This is a known pattern that the media chooses to ignore at the peril of the populace they purport to "serve."

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Won't someone use evidence-based decision making once in a fucking blue moon or take responsibility for the effects of their sensationalism

sorry, didn't mean to unpack something remotely salient from your lol zing

If you have nothing to say, would you please stop posting to this thread, Jon. I'm not in a humorous mood.

(xx-post)

(this is one of my touchy topics can u tell)

i agree that it seems to be some kind of trend. angry teens lashing out and getting all sorts of media attention with pics of them in bad-ass poses pointing guns. i think if the news stopped flashing those images and calling them things like "killers" and "maniacs" and instead plastered the public consciousness with their most awkward photos and phrases like "dickless loser" and "pathetic friendless nobody" - they might not crave the attention so much.

xpost jon, go play on your little bored and please leave the grown-ups alone, thanks.

The first video was just a still picture of the school and some dark music for about 30 seconds and then it showed two pictures (the ones above) of him with the gun with a red tint all over it.

The second video was still images of Prozac and other anti-depressant meds and flashes of text saying things about how they are supposed to make you feel better while silly/upbeat music was playing. Then the music changed and it flashed up images of former school shooters to some creepy dark tune.

More interesting, tho, was his YouTube profile. Apparently he had been banned a week ago and had to start all over and was pissed off at YouTube about it. He even made a video about being banned. Haw.

Tombot OTM but good luck running up that hill man

Hopefully this will convince some of the "lol american wild west gun culture what did you expect" people to shut the fuck up.

Did he kill himself, too?

He's in a critical condition in the hospital after having shot himself. Not likely to survive.

to J0hn - well it can't be legislated. the best you can hope for is that after this some folks at the larger MSM outlets that were responsible for worshipping at the VT shooter's altar for a whole week will try to take a slightly more considered approach in the future (as they seem to be doing now, though that's probably just because this is in a country 90% of americans can't find on a map)

Fuck off, small-dick, canuk. http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

Tom, I don't think criticizing the media is really a practical way to stop this kind of stuff in the future. I mean sure, the reporting is lurid....

But I mean is there a compelling reason why we even tolerate private gun ownership at all anymore other than some assholes who think its their right?

xposts

I am gonna be interested in the Finnish legislative response to this, though, for sure

it was never far-fetched. when a suicide makes the news, the suicide rate goes up, and published details of the death are often copied. This is a known pattern that the media chooses to ignore at the peril of the populace they purport to "serve."

For real, copycat suicides are a real and heartbreaking thing. I worked as (one of four people putting together/editing/writing for) a weekly county paper, abt 3k in the whole county. And three kids killed themselves that year (well people 15-25, all men). We had a really strong policy against printing that stuff, and I think for the better, because if .1% of the county was doing it without reading publicity about the others, that shit is pretty dire!

Probably seven kids (that I knew) killed themselves when I was in my late teens and they were in their late teens/early-20s. No reports of that either. I mean, fuck, I think that was the last thing anyone needed though there were reports on how suicide was a problem in the area from time to time. Not near as often as they happened though.

It kind of upsets me how much publicity shootings get. On the one hand I can understand, it's tragic and all, but having weeks-long constant coverage just seems to almost romanticize and...I don't know, make a real dramatic arch out of the whole thing. I wish the killed got more respect and the killers were shunned.

we tolerate private gun ownership the same reason we tolerate SUVs

Oh hmm, I don't watch tv news so I guess I didn't know the youff phenomenon was so sensationalized. But it's not like you can NOT cover it, either.

when a suicide makes the news, the suicide rate goes up, and published details of the death are often copied.
This is uncontrovertible. At my paper we virtually never run stories of child hangings, river-jump suicides and the like, because they almost inevitably lead to copycats. With big stories like VTech though it would be bizarre not to cover them, but you can be more careful about the way you do it.

xposts aplenty

I can't seem to find anything about that kid who crashed his plane into a building in Florida in the 9/11 copycat

stet, I'm guessing all my 20 something former classmates who "passed away at home" are suicides?

i remember suggesting that just maybe the world would be a little better off if guns have never been invented and a certain former poster said that was the dumbest thing he'd ever heard, presumably because he liked to shoot stuff and fetishize himself as an action hero.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=EGLC,EGLC:2007-20,EGLC:en&q=On+January+5%2c+2002%2c+the+15%2dyear%2dold+stole+a+small+single+engine+plane+and+crashed+it+into+the+Bank+of+America+building+in+Tampa%2c+Florida%2e+He+left+a+suicide+note+in+his+pocket+which+was+found+immediately+but+wasn%27t+made+public+until+January+9%2c+although+deta

stet OTM, I just wish the coverage wasn't always so exploitative. If I was a parent of one of the kids who died in any situation I would for real flip out/have a nervous breakdown/harrangue the media about why they are fucking publicizing my kid's death and the person who took my child's life.

Hopefully this will convince some of the "lol american wild west gun culture what did you expect" people to shut the fuck up.

given that the shooter seems to have taken every last one of his cues from American school shooters, no

JW yes that is probably the case w/yr dead friends.

In my current perspective the world seems a dark, evil, but inescapable place.

Yea Jon, there's quite a lot of "died at home", or "died in dorms" if there's some reason to tell the story. Often, we just don't report it at all. Sorry if yr classmates did that, too.

thanks, john d. i was trying to find an eloquent way of putting that.
xposts

Abbott you should watch more sci-fi on BBC America! Dr. Who threw Satan into a black hole last week!

Is that the "Doctor in Space" one? That episode is BITCHING.

I have all the Who eps from 12-mod-ren d/led. They do make for a cheer-up. Fucking good stuff most of the time.

But unfortunately it is not real.

I did buy a sound-effects making Tardis coin bank last week, though, and it does cheer me up to open it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnoyqykrz_o rororo

You can tell someone doesn't really know how to handle a gun by two things: 1) finger on the trigger (a big no-no learned in every 'junior' hunting class), and 2) pointing a gun at something that you don't want to destroy, ie a camera. These shots of 'mugging' are a major faux pas among gun owners and anyone who values their safety in general. Surely someone here with military training (or someone raised in the south) can corroborate this.

And obviously, I mean "finger on the trigger when NOT planning on shooting AT something," as in 'posing'

we've been over this, but at least we know you're not manalishi, because manalishi would know that we've been over this

Assholes you are completely not OTM. Someone can know how to "handle a gun" AND do those two things. Unless by "handle a gun" you DON'T mean know how to hit a target and shoot a bunch of people.

Surely someone here with military training (or someone raised in the south) can corroborate this.

YEEEEHAW I CANNOT CORROBORATE THIS, PARDNER

BTW tombot it could be manalishi, because I know we've been over this and LOOK AT ME

defending the knowledge of responsible gun owners (lol like everybody in the south what? when we shoot skeet at thanksgiving I've had five different relatives tell me five different ways to hold a shotgun when not in use and seen any number of uh-oh moments where somebody could have gotten killed) does not, in any way, justify the proliferation of gun ownership, since demonstrating basic range safety technique has never stopped anybody from using guns to kill people.

Way better said than I could have ever done

Will - sorry, but you're wrong. The first thing you are taught in any shooting class, whethe rit be militray, police, hunting, what-have-you, is the 'four rules:'

1. Keep your finger off the trigger at all times until ready to shoot (studies have been done and it takes something like a 20th of a second to put an index finger on a trigger from a 'safer place' on a firearm)

2. Never point the muzzle at anything you don't want destroyed

3. All guns are always loaded, treat them as such

4. Be sure of your target

(army brat here)

And I only said that about the South - no disrespect to the 'sons of the soil' here - because my experience is that there is a lot more exposure to guns in the south at an early age. Didn't mean to start a big thing.

HEY GUYS I AM LOOKING FOR THE "HOW MUCH SHOULD A VEGETARIAN TIP WHEN PURCHASING A GUN" THREAD CAN YOU HELP?

Actually Assholes you can know all of those four rules and still break them. It's kind of like knowing that it's against the law to murder people and going out and murdering them anyway!

I'm not sure which sentence Will posted you could even be taking issue with!

tombot, making the points i want to so i don't have to

xpost: I guess you're right. But maybe those people shouldn't have guns in the first place!

Yes, people who aren't in the military or the police probably shouldn't have guns.

Unless they roll out one of those comedy flags that says "BANG!" when shot.

i think that if we all work together guys we can get to the bottom of this whole gun issue as a team. next stop: abortion.

after that: war

http://www.sound-track.net/file/23/File0163.jpg

Oh my god I'm sorry, that's huge.

You can tell someone doesn't really know how to handle a gun by two things

This is really stupid. Seriously.

"I can't believe this kid who shot up his school didn't follow general safety rules when posing for his post-infamy press photos! He didn't know nothin' about guns!" - except how to use them with reasonable effectiveness, of course.

We 'tolerate' guns because a) we're way past the point of no return there, the only effective form of 'gun control' is complete confiscation and that ain't ever gonna happen, b) you can't really isolate the presence of guns as a negative social factor.

Nonviolent communication sure is an interesting subject.

i <3 Sébastien

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/7630969.stm

wb

The level of gun ownership in Finland is among the highest in the world.

The shooter's YouTube profile (with videos of him, shooting...)

They tightened the legislation for acquiring handguns after the case last year, but I'm not sure what's the the deal with hunting weapons these days. Finland has indeed a high number of guns, and most of them are hunting guns, I assume getting hold of one isn't very difficult if you really want to.

The most disturbing thing is that, like I predicted last year, school shootings really seem to have become an international "trend" or a cultural pattern of action for certain crazy people. Despite the large number of guns there hadn't really been any American-style school shootings in here before last year, but now it seems to have become a viable option for people who go crazy, instead of just killing yourself or something.

Shit.

Sympathies to the Finnish, esp our local Finn.

Apparently he was questioned by the police yesterday but released?

Deze account is opgeschort.

for some reason i read this as "high school musical in finland"

Yeah, he'd put some shooting video online, and the police questioned him about that yesterday, but since the gun was legal and the video only showed him at a shooting range, the cops decided not to do anything. Whoever made that decision must feel like shit today. (Then again, if the plan was just inside his head, how could they have proven anything?)

Oh yeah, and it appears his gun wasn't a hunting weapon but a handgun. Hopefully this will lead to the government banning private handguns altogether.

Yeah, he'd put some shooting video online, and the police questioned him about that yesterday, but since the gun was legal and the video only showed him at a shooting range, the cops decided not to do anything.

Particularly since in the video his fingers aren't on the trigger when he wasn't firing and his gun was pointed only at things he wanted to shoot.

it is really sad to see this spreading internationally.

I don't think it is really.

gunman died. they posted his youtube video here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/23/finland.schools

Um, he's speaking english in his video. So - yes, it's spreading internationally, and it's disturbing.