Hey Baby, Your Brain Is Really Turning Me On....

2) Not very far at all. I assume it puts people off.

Fabulous Looks alone, no intelligence, humour etc = c.80% appeal.

Proven by science, etc.

What was that three adjective thing you described me as recently , the pinefox?

OK, it doesn't include any humour, but it still leaves you the most illegible bachelor in town.

or

ii) I am just very shallow.

iii) You are trying to find *another* excuse to quote Morrissey's "Complainining / 'Women only like for for my mind'".

Why would your looks need validation? I don't think they do. You must have spent your life being told how tasty you are.

C'mon Nick, surely your mum told you you were great. Even the Elephant Man's mum thought he was handsome.

I don't think that's a culturally familiar model of attraction, at least for women.

I had an long dream about you last night, Ellie, btw.

Emma - no, I don't remember my mum ever saying that. Or if she ever did I just ignored it as the kind of thing mums say. Oh hang on - she did once say that our neighbour thought I looked like Michael J. Fox, but I don't know if she or the neighbour fancied Michael J. Fox or not. I don't look like Michael J. Fox anyway.

Nick I think you should tell us more about your cruel mother and the way she rejected you as a child. Were you breast fed? Even my mum occasionally manages to come out with nice comments.

(Micheal J Fox!?)

I don't think boys get as many 'you're beautiful' comments from their parents as girls, Emma. It's not the societal norm for men to feel the need for such validation. That's what Morrissey was getting at in that line.

I'm not bitter or anything is what I'm trying to say I guess. I suspect Nick might be right about it being a girl thing.

(This morning I watched back some video shot of me, and I appear to be unfeasibly cute (NB I think I look rubbidge in the mirror). What gives?)

As a meta question which would you rather be complimented on?

Being intelligent/funny or being beautiful? I may be in need of brain medicine but I kind of think I'd rather be told I was intelligent or funny. I mean it's interesting because if you're with someone you presume they think you're good looking anyway. So if they tell you you're intelligent can you take it as a double success type thing? Or are they simply saying "hey I didn't like you, but you came out with some smart bullshit and it worked". In which case you've triumphed also, just in a slightly odd way.

I don't know. I need a lie down.

This touches on a big, big question for me. In your experience, do people who are going out with someone think that their partner is the most gorgeous in the world? And if not, how would you take it if someone said "Well, obviously you're not as fit as Johnny Depp/Kate Moss, but I fancy you enough so don't worry"? And what if instead of Depp/Moss you said someone you both knew? Obviously if would be very insensitive, but is it sad that people can't tell the truth?

It covers all bases and has an 'I am under your spell' vibe to it.

Does this make sense? I realise it's blaming men a lot but what the heck.

From my experience I'd say that while I may not necessarily think the person I'm with is The Most Gorgeous, the fact that I actually know them and presumably like / love them makes a hell of a difference.

So what you're saying is keep such thoughts/words under wraps at first and then review the situation a few weeks/months into the relationship and if you still think other people are more gorgeous then perhaps it's time to call it a day?

The most traditionaly good looking bloke (six pack, square jaw - *really* not what I usually find attractive) I have ever slept with was also the world's most shallow man. And arrogant and generally boring. And therefore not attractive.

BUT don't abandon it, N, your posts on this thread have been stimulating and grate.

On the other hand, I'd much rather be complimented on my brain than on my body, partly because I'm convinced that anyone who complimented me (out of the blue) on my physical appearance would a) not be fooling anybody b) be trying to scam me somehow.

On the humor/intelligence thing: you can't have reasonably well- developed humor WITHOUT intelligence...

There's also the really fun part of finding you get on really well with the person you were really physically attracted to before talking to them. This can be dead weird and scary (in a good way) especially when your friends don't see the physical attraction. Of course this has happened me once ever in its' entirety.

So do I, but really I extend this to any sort of compliment. They just don't seem credible.

I sort of see what Pete is saying. The PHWOAR factor is relevant, but you can grow to fancy people. In fact, my problem is I can't stop fancying women once I've grown to like them.

I don't there, there have been a few people that I wasn't initially attracted to when I first met them that I became attracted to once I got to know them.

There, my brain is in a state today for some reason.

Am I hopelessly romantic when I say I would have no problem shagging someone I totally adored? ie If gorgeousness is not an important factor in adoration => Why would I start worrying that that they're not pretty enough to shag? Or more analyitically, surely it's possible to be physically attracted to someone you don't think is objectively the most attractive person in the world - surely this way no one would ever sleep with non-alpha people (though maybe this is the case)?

I definitely need the physical attraction, I don't know if I need to think the person is fantastically attractive by other peoples standards, because if she isn't then they're wrong. FOOLS.

Full disclosure: I don't really date and am hopeless at navigating social conventions for such things. So what do I know?

Rogue formatting had me thinking that Lixi only made friends with women whom she thought would give birth for her.

This ties in to my what-do-we-do-about-unhappy-lonely-people bugbear, of course.

And do personalities really change that much? Looks do genuinely change (you get older...)

Nick, perhaps this is better addressed in a personal email, but I'm sorry if any of my posts have made you sad. I've never to my knowledge boasted of any "easy love". At times easy sex, maybe. I'm 35 this year, and had one boyfriend for 9 months that I thought I loved and loved me back. I'm actually very lonely. And if I remember correctly from our picture thread, you're a real cutie; didn't many people point this out? While "good looking" people (a category to which you belong) may have an overall easier time of it, we're all subject to insecurity and lonliness, and nothing in life is at all guaranteed.

Tom, at least you are willing to admit it;> The Net certainly has made it easier to meet others with similar interests. Finding someone to like (much less love) is difficult enough; at least, shyness becomes less of a factor. Your site (I can guess) allows potential partners to see inside your head---without that nerve racking first date.

Douglas and Nicole: join the crowd;> Growing up with that mindset, I _still_ fall into thinking that, sometimes. It has less to do with self-confidence, than experience. It's one thing for our mums to tell us, "You are the prettiest/most handsome one in the world", and another for a stranger to fancy you based on one (or two) looks.

After all, your parents are biased, ain't they?*

Dan, last I checked, that process was called being a surrogate....

Since when has "Lord of the Rings" turned into a dating manual;>? Sauron got emasculated, once he relied on testosterone [sub his finger for a certain other body part, and you'll see my point] None can qualify as losers, unless you allow it to affect you.

Now, obviously, I'm not gonna pursue all my female friends for sex and intimacy, of course.... even if I find them attractive. There's a level of respect to address there. But I'm also troubled with the notion that it's somehow inappopriate to want to be very intimate with somebody who you've come to trust and appreciate over a long period of time, whereas it's perfectly acceptable to be similarly intimate with some strange cutie that walks by your table in a bar.

As for this thread, I don't think trust and intelligence are mutually exclusive.

And to actually answer this thread: well, intelligence, of course. A pretty person with an ugly, empty personality is an ugly, empty person. Period. Even just for a night of sex. If I'm going to fuck somebody, I want to at least have the ability to be friends with her afterwards, ya know?

And you don't want to know how far I've gone to get a girl's attention. Thankfully, I've become wiser, more calm, and more confident in age.

That's why I thought it was a baffling criterion for friendship.

btw did anyone get the number of the three- headed pole?

2. I am in strong agreement with Emma - I think she's being OTM, not 'shallow'.

3. Vivienne Eliot's contribution = she should be locked up, in a nut- house, like. La.

4. Yes N = cutie as we all know; also Tim H is OTM re. 'indie boy' here.

5. N: You are one of the Good Guys.

6. Pete B = Bad Guy for excessive sandwich prices, SET BY HIM for all I know. Also he RIGS ELECTIONS (? what was result anyway?).

The search for a new Freaky Trigger slogan is over.

I was just thinking about this on the way up from the canteen. I would be perfectly happy for someone to fancy me (even go out with me) just for my looks, whereas if someone only liked me for my mind, that would bother me a lot. This could be interpreted in two different ways:
i) I am more secure about my personality than my physical self so do not need to feel validated by another on the former.
or

ii) I am just very shallow.

Do you still think this N? I relate alot to things you say about relationships, should I be worried?

As I say though, a great but kind of sad thread.

[Chorus]
Do your really even love me
If you do there is no pain
Do I really even love you
Or do I really love your -
Brain?