Stephen Donaldson - classic or dud

to be fair i only read the first one (as an adolescent yay): i tht it unbelievably terrible and never explored further

Thread title needs a "Defend the indefensible..." added to the front.

absolute shite. very american in that the high concept clearly mattered more than anything else to the author, who is a painfully untalented wretch regardless

Wonder if the cover art was presold.

The Gap series is frightening dark. Space Opera which is fundamentally about how rapists can love too.

ffs, is this what all of his books are about?

There used to be a point where Donaldson books would be found in every UK charity shop, dunno what's replaced them since, Twilight series maybe?

He's an absolutely frustrating writer, there's a lot of turgid prose to wade through in order to reach the nuggets of good stuff. I can see why a lot of people wouldn't bother. OTH I don't regret the time I spent soldiering through the first Covenant Trilogy, felt like I'd conquered a mountain that had been taunting me since my teenage years.

I seem to remember an interview where the question came up of why rape features so frequently in his books and his response was something along the lines of "Yeah, I guess that is kinda weird..." Hmm.

I forced my way the end of the first book when it came out, but finally fully recoiled whilst trying to read the second one. That first one bummed me out more than almost anything else I ever tried to read.

Its no r scott bakker but they were a trudge and tbh i dont recall even the brief moments of quality noted above

Comparisons to tolkien are just insane imo/tbh

Yeah, there are certainly longeurs in Tolkein but he certainly seems to have some idea about how language works, whereas this chap...

Its a trudge, and an unpleasant one.

Tolkien, in the draggy parts (drag on?) is still, in his completed works, more like a ramble

out of a surfeit of time im working my way through erikson/malazan books now and the pacing issue there is quite different again- a card game turned into a history then hurtled out as books.

Then i guess i neednt turn this into a general fantasy thread

I’m nearly finished The Illearth War, thank god, and I don't think I’m going to continue after that. Apart from the most obviously unpleasant stuff, it’s just horribly paced and all of the characters are garbage.

I read Book of the New Sun earlier this year and completely loved it, and hoped Donaldson might be on a similar level. NOPE.

Lol that you would think that

Huh, I read the Covenant books aged around 14 and thought they were amazing, but I’ve never felt the urge to reread in the 35 years since. Whereas Dune I would have read ten times, even though Herbert isn’t exactly Nabokov.

I feel like part of the struggle of getting through these books is not just the writing style but also the relentless misery inflicted on the characters, so much so it feels genuinely cathartic when something good actually happens, which isn't often. I don't I made it far through Covenant book 4 as the endless suffering was getting a bit absurd.

moksha, turiya, samadhi

(leper, outcast, unclean)

do you really actually want yet another Orphaned Chosen One Who Assumes His Heritage?

c'mon

Was just thinking of these books earlier, oddly enough.

tbf i'm only here for the first six -- the rest are incredibly bad

that said i'm also working on a will that involves everyone involved uttering 'nom'

I mean...if you can make it work. "God I really need someone to knock down this drywall. Oh yeah right -- Nom."

if we're gonna worry about our crysknives being blooded i feel like we can respect sandgorgons spanning the globe in advance of your blasphemy

I just appreciate the ultimate dick move of Lord Foul taking all the essential iconography of ol' TC's first collective go-round and making it his own just to fuck him over when he finally comes back.

lol

i mean we've now successfully turned galactic butcher muad'dib into the hero of several films

thomas covenant is a rapist asshole from the start, which for better or worse is a different from whatever terry brooks is serving up

I've never seen an author sabotage all good will for his central character so early and so completely as in that scene.

That being said, I did finish the first and second chronicles since last thread bump. I still don't think they're great, but they have an odd pull which kept me plodding along.

I also liked the decision to depart the map entirely in book 5 with a crew of giants. The giants are his funnest characters.

I've never seen an author sabotage all good will for his central character so early and so completely as in that scene.

i don't think he pulls it off -- covenant becomes too sympathetic, particularly in the later books

but exploring whether our magical savior is in fact Good is worthwhile in the face of . . . everything

Found this thread through a search after reading/commenting in the Wheel of Time thread. I'm honestly surprised by the low opinion of Donaldson's prose. OTOH, my most recent encounter was with the last four (!) books of the Covenant cycle, which were both unnecessary and clunky. I still think the middle three are solid, mostly because of the Giants and Linden Avery, not to mention the relative absence of Covenant.