Taking Sides: Gordon Ramsay Vs. Anthony Bourdain

Ramsay apparently the better chef, Bourdain a much better TV host (and writer)

sounds about right

gordon ramsey is tit, but i sort of admire his stance against shitty food at restaurants. you spend a fortune at some swanky gaff and they make some bone-headed fuckup like overcooking pasta or too much salt.

small, family-run places tend to be the best, imo.

Bourdain seems considerably cooler/nicer.

no poll, no cred.

bourdain strikes me as a bit of a creep, but a likable enough creep in his public persona.

ramsay strives to make himself as unlikable as possible on tv, but seems like he's a softie in real life.

bourdain's persona has more depth by a long shot, even though ramsay's one-note temper tantrums are consistently OTM.

sometimes bourdain's extreeeem cultural tourism has rubbed me the wrong way. at the same time, i find his "new york punk" steez charming but i wish he'd shut up about the good old days already.

does bourdain have an opinion on ramsay? (or vice versa?)

Bourdain loves Ramsay. There is an entire chapter in one of his books on him.

These guys aren't really comparable. Bourdain's basically a TV personality/author who happen to be a chef at one point whereas Ramsay is chef who happens to have become a TV personality. I'd definitely rather eat at a Ramsay restaurant or buy a Ramsay cookbook (not that Bourdain even has a cookbook) or hang out with Ramsay (despite his persona, he seems like the nicer guy.) Ramsay definitely has the more interesting story too. Bourdain's books hold a special place, but he's pretty much a jerk and I find the TV show a bit wearying frankly.

bourdain is not a serious chef the way ramsay is, though i dunno if any of the latter's restaurants are really great these days and i dunno if his food is really my style (bourdain's either, really, but who cares about his food). ramsay's tv persona is a put-on, but he's still sort of a dick for putting it on. bourdain isn't persona free either of course, but it's a v v charming persona, and i'd probably pay large sums of money for him to kick my ass at paintball or something.

i sort of admire his stance against shitty food at restaurants. you spend a fortune at some swanky gaff and they make some bone-headed fuckup like overcooking pasta or too much salt.

ok then

xxxposts

i found this article in google's cache, but can only access the first page...

How We Met: Anthony Bourdain & Gordon Ramsay
Independent, The (London), Dec 16, 2001 by Interviews by Gina Rozner
The chef and author Anthony Bourdain (left), 45, was born in New York. He studied at Vassar and the Culinary Institute of America. As well as spending 25 years in the kitchen he has written several books including the novel `Bone in the Throat', an expose of New York restaurants and `Kitchen Confidential'. His latest book, `A Cook's Tour: In Search of the Perfect Meal', is out now. He is married and lives in New York.

Glasgow-born Gordon Ramsay, 35, grew up in Stratford-upon-Avon. He trained as a footballer and then in hotel management, and has worked with Marco Pierre White and Albert Roux. A household name since appearing in the television series `Boiling Point' in 1999, he recently opened at Claridge's. Married, with four children, he lives in London

Gordon Ramsay I first heard of Tony in about 1995 when he published Bone in the Throat. He was described to me as the American version of Marco Pierre White - good-looking, tall, talented and rants and raves in his kitchen - but when I started reading the book, I could tell from the introduction here's a man who speaks from the heart, a man who understands the highs and lows of writing and cooking. Tony's gone to hell and back in his kitchen and he's come out on top and I identify with that, with being one minute the biggest arsehole, the next one of the most talented chefs.

A couple of years later I was in the Buddha Bar in Paris. It's very seedy, holds about 600 people and the atmosphere is phenomenal. We bumped into each other by the bar. We recognised each other instantly and the first thing he said was "What the fuck are you doing here?" I was doing a dinner on the eve of the World Cup final at Versailles restaurant and I explained this, I said I'm hanging out with Pele and Tony said "Who the hell's Pele?" So from there we just hit it off. We got incredibly drunk together and stayed up till about five in the morning. We bonded big time.

Then he did the coolest thing a chef has ever done. When he launched Kitchen Confidential he threw a party at Smithfield for about 450 chefs at midnight - when chefs finish work - and we hit it off there as well and after that we e-mailed and faxed each other.

He's just been a real support. He sympathised with Boiling Point. He watched it and came out with nothing but admiration so he's a breath of fresh air. Tony also wrote the foreword for my American edition of Just Desserts and I've done some filming for him for his new series. You get close to Tony only when you've gone through the mill. He doesn't have respect for chefs who just piss around and try to reinvent the Cornish pasty on television. He's a cook's cook. He has charisma. He's intriguing. What you see is what you get.

This year I asked him to be my guest at the Booker Prize. After the dinner the BBC came and interviewed us and it was the biggest embarrassment of my TV career. They asked me about the shortlist and all I could remember was the winner from last year. I rolled into a spiel about up-and-coming authors. Tony had his hands on my bollocks - literally, big time from behind - and he was squeezing and squeezing away and I was going whiter and whiter in the face. Then he came out with something to do with The Beach. It was a "Beam me up Scottie" moment.

After that we set off on this crawl round Soho. It went on until about 4.30am and the following night was the launch of Claridge's and Tony was my guest of honour.

With Tony there are no barriers, there's just pure relaxation. Thank god we only meet three or four times a year otherwise we'd be in big trouble. We meet - bang - an explosion. We're looking at doing a book tour together next year. It could be a recipe for disaster.

Anthony Bourdain Long before I met Gordon I'd heard of him. Also he'd been pointed out to me in Buddha Bar. I wish I could tell you more about that night but I'm ashamed to say my recollection of it is far from clear.

I have a reputation for being a word-stylist in my kitchen - tirades, playful insults - and people started saying "Hey, there's this guy you should meet over in England, known for much the same aptitude, in fact he's an even bigger bastard than you."

Well this was a challenge, but I was determined to meet him after I saw Boiling Point. Word was at fever pitch by then. I kept hearing "Gordon Ramsay, Gordon Ramsay you've got to see this show. He actually fires people on camera." And when I saw it, it seemed to me that this was an entirely reasonable man. I saw him as sympathetic from the beginning. It was the good guy against the world.

The next time I was in London I went to his restaurant. I was going for a piss when I saw him on the phone, calling in orders in the office. He looked up, gave me an evil smile and said, "You bastard!"

The table next to me - a group of loud, rich toffs - were persistently haranguing their poor waiter, trying to get Gordon to make an appearance. As they were finally getting up to leave, Gordon swans into the dining- room, looking relaxed, and flops into a seat at my table, cutting them dead. We hung out, bullshitted, gossiped, exchanged news from the front over coffee... you know, shop talk, hit it off right away and became friends.

Are Bourdain's books any good?

I wish there was a second Steingarten book. Man Who Ate Everything is MAJOR.

If you're going to read any of them, read Kitchen Confidential.

I just found out about this Bourdain guy and I hate him.

not that Bourdain even has a cookbook

BZZT! He does! (and it's pretty good even)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K3V83DQKL._AA240_.jpg

I love cookbooks. Drawback: many of them feature ingredients I can't afford (even if they were available in my area, which they aren't).

i want ludo lefebvre's cookbook for christmas.

I'd definitely rather eat at a Ramsay restaurant or buy a Ramsay cookbook (not that Bourdain even has a cookbook)

http://books.google.com/books?id=8XmIHAAACAAJ&dq=anthony+bourdain&ei=9yBkR9yKF47-iAHD-bGfAw

(not, obviously, that having a cookbook makes you a good chef!!) judging by most metrics, ramsay is by far the better chef--he has michelin stars! and like forty restaurants!!

kitchen confidential is pretty good but bourdain buys into the kitchen machismo shit too much to make it really classic.

if anyones looking for a better book about cooking, i cant recommend bill buford's heat highly enough. id take batali over ramsay and bourdain any day of the week, and not just cause i like italian more than french cuisine.

yeah mario wins at everything ever.

alex in sf: according to those potted biographies, it looks like you've got them the wrong way around - bourdain was a chef first and ramsay was a football player first. and then a hotel manager. not that that should really matter!

The Tarteflette (sp?) in Bourdain's cookbook is an ass-kicker!

nigel slater >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either of these guys

or hang out with Ramsay (despite his persona, he seems like the nicer guy

No way, Bourdain seems like a bro, way more fun to go around and eat and drink with.

A Cook's Tour is by far my favorite thing I've read by him, really humble and inpiring (in a wanting to go travel & eat) sense).

i have the "les halles cookbook" and it's pretty darn good though. excellent french fry instructions and a good pork loin too.

Nigel Slater's books are good, but he's a cook not a chef, that's for certain. Ramsay's books are buggers to follow but the Les Halles cookbook is tremendous, an ideal starter into French classical/bistro.

I've been reading a lot of American cheffy stuff lately and there seems to be a really big French vs Italian schism. Ruhlman seems to be at the centre of it, like a commentator on the big fight (but favouring the French)

Bourdain's restaurant on Park Avenue is a great standard bisto type place, but so far I haven't been to a Ramsey location yet, mainly due to the money factor, at the end of the day, they cook different stuff, just with the same mindset.

"alex in sf: according to those potted biographies, it looks like you've got them the wrong way around"

Not really. All I was saying was if Bourdain hadn't written a book or had a TV show no one would really have heard of him (not that he wasn't a good chef, but he's more famous for what he's written than anything he's cooked or any restaurant he's run) whereas Ramsay would be famous Michelin 3-star chef whether Kitchen Nightmares or Boiling Point was ever on.

i think that's reasonably accurate. Outside of the restaurant community, had he not written anything, the layperson invariably wouldn't know about him.

Also, I think their respective culinary styles are quite different, but I've never eaten at one of Ramsay's joints. I have eaten at Les Halles, and it's mighty good stuff.

god i love both these guys. kitchen confidential is a rad book. i would like to read ramsay's kitchen heaven soon.

but he's a cook not a chef, that's for certain

funny you say that. i was at the mall last night and i saw a huge line in the bookstore so i went in and hey, there's rachael ray. and she was talking to a 5 year old in a chef's outfit who told her he'd been a chef for halloween. and she was all "me too, cause i'm a cook, not a chef".

there seems to be a really big French vs Italian schism

it's 80s/90s (italian) vs 90s/00s (french) ... or pre- and post- alice waters, maybe?

spanish is the new thing though, right?

Rachel Ray should be thrown into a Turkish prison.

okay, Shakey

Bourdain is most entertaining when he sets the bad boy image to the side and goes slobbery all over other chefs and restaurants - he gets me excited to think about eating in one of Tom Colicchio's Craft joints or Masa/Bar Masa, and I loved his treatment of the pizza place and Mario Batali's parents place in the Portland/Seattle No Reservations.

spanish is the new thing though, right?

tapas/"small plates" are de rigeur everywhere these days (really the latter more than the former). i think it's a good business decision -- it's inclusive of pretentious-but-broke grad-student types like me who want to TRY the food they're always reading about, and it's an easy way to keep some cash flowing in during lunch and late afternoon while the kitchen is concentrating on getting dinner items together.

sorry, de rigueur. minus five francophile points.

i much prefer nigel slater.

i'm thinking a little deeper than tapas

80s italian = everything tastes like olive oil
90s french = everything tastes like butter + lemon
00s spanish = everything tastes smoky, salty + slightly pungent (like bacon?)

simplifying to the point of stupidity but you know what i mean?

lots of salumi, charcuterie, guanciale, jamon serrano w/ manchego, tapenades, etc...

but i feel like "mediterranean" has already been done in those heady '90s pan-everything dotcom days.

but maybe then it was overambitious and now it's more scaled back and web 2.0?

those "heady 90s pan-everything dotcom days" make me think "seared ahi tuna w/ mint cucumber shot" or some crap like that.

where we at right now? neo-comfort food or something?

neo-comfort food with a locavore/seasonal twist

also, the belgian bistro... moules frites cooked in stella w/ garlic and herbs.

haha i almost put down belgian fries!

food trend 2008: gourmet hot dogs

god i want some moules frites right now

top three restaurants as judged by restaurant magazine for the past five or six years, in one order or another:

elbulli (sort-of-pan-everything "gastronomic science" *in spain* with a minor locavore/seasonal twist)
the french laundry (french semi-neo-comfort food with a definite & emphasized locavore/seasonal twist)
the fat duck (sort-of-pan-everything-with-a-french-emphasis "gastronomic science")

but i dont know that restaurant magazine is taken "seriously" by people who take these things seriously?? also ive never been to any of those restaurants so i dont know how accurate my capsule descriptions are (probably not). but the "gastronomic science" thing is/was quite "big"

fucking Marcel

neo-comfort food with a locavore/seasonal twist

^^^^^
my favorite trend. lot of little, not "name" places in LA that do this stuff and its great (a bunch of em in eagle rock!)

oh hey, there is a Craft in Dallas, whaddya know. and i guess the NY one really isn't that big a place.

food trend 2008: gourmet hot dogs

then i am so ahead of the curve

Ramsay's tv persona is a put-on, but he's still sort of a dick for putting it on.

very much otm

hot dougs is i n c r e d i b l e

neo-comfort food with a locavore/seasonal twist

this kind of thing has been going on in the twin cities for a while:

http://www.craftsmanrestaurant.com/
http://www.citypages.com/dish/detail.asp?CID=1384

i don't know from 'cuisine trends,' but if this is the next thing, great!

I wish there was a second Steingarten book. Man Who Ate Everything is MAJOR.

There is:

http://www.randomhouse.com/images/dyn/cover/?source=9780375727122&height=300&maxwidth=170

re: Ramsey's TV persona, I thought this article was interesting:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/02/070402fa_fact_buford

Curse you Hot Dougs for being closed the entire time I will be in Chicago.

my brother gave me 'Gordon Ramsay Makes It Easy' - looks interesting on a quick flip through. Recipes are designed to be simple (duh), focus on high-quality ingredients, also has sections on identifying quality produce/seafood/meats and then some 'see, Gordon Ramsay really is a human being with a soul' stuff.

I am going to cook the shit out of the wild sea bass wrapped in zucchini flowers, soon as I figure out where I can get zucchini flowers

A Cook's Tour marathon on Food Network tomorrow!@#!@#@!!#

I am going to cook the shit out of the wild sea bass wrapped in zucchini flowers,

cook the shit out of is right - http://www.net.org/marine/csb/

soon as I figure out where I can get zucchini flowers

see also "squash blossoms." they're in season when the summer squash/zucchini are, i.e. summer. do you have "farmer's markets" in DFW?

Bourdain's restaurant on Park Avenue is a great standard bisto type place

it was. he hasn't been affiliated with les halles in quite some time, as far as i know.

I've only seen one or two of Gordon's british series, and Hell's Kitchen, and I hated the latter. He wasn't a completely over the top asshole all of the time on his british shows--very sympathetic at times.

I met Ramsay the other week and he was a total gentleman.

the few things i've read by bourdain were pretty entertaining -- he can write -- but his anti-vegetarian shtick is obnoxious. if you can't make good food without meat, don't cry to me about it. if you just don't care enough about the minority of diners who don't eat meat to bother, ok fine. lots of other people can make good food without meat, vegetarians don't need anthony bourdain's help.

hehe i hope he reads that when he trolls

i'm fine with vegetarian-hate. i don't like not-getting-vegetables.

I haven't read a ton of Bourdain but I thought his anti-vegetarian stance was mostly him getting pissed at people who deliberately deny themselves huge swaths of various cuisines rather than trying everything you possibly can.

i dont really care what he thinks about vegetarians.

yeah, his anti-veg schtick seems very much in tune with his opinion on people who worry about genetically-modified foods, animal rights issues, etc. - he's all about the food hedonism/taste and prefers to not think about other issues.

that episode with bourdain pretending to take drugs and act all trippy in front of a mirror was truly painful to watch (the other episodes were weak too, he's far less charismatic and watchable than he thinks). his first book was good but the air of self-satisfaction around everything he does means he loses out bigtime to gordon.

perchance are you british?

why yes, yes you are

he's all about the food hedonism/taste and prefers to not think about other issues.

i know, i just get tired of people taking some bold stand against the tides of non-meat-eating. it's got that macho "i eat meat, bitch" (or "i cook meat, bitch") tinge to it. which of course is part of the same thing that makes him entertaining, so whatever.

does gabbneb mean only americans can appreciate the smug sub-richard hell schtick for what it is?

what does that even mean?

does gabbneb mean only americans can appreciate the smug sub-richard hell schtick for what it is?

i mean people tend to like people like themselves

I think they both seem like losers who try too hard. At least Bourdain has a bit of New Wave cred, Ramsay is just an overcompensating ponce.

Shades of Dud.

so after watching a bunch of A Cook's Tour yesterday i thought i was AWESOME. way better than No Reservations. it was about the FOOD and not so much about Fear Factor type stunts.

what I've seen of Cook's Tour - I would never watch the Food Network - is No Reservations in previews - the latter has more time, better production values and a slightly older and wiser host

and as far as I can tell, while Cook's Tour doesn't have any roller derby shit, there's actually less about the food

but i just watched a bunch of episodes last night.

you haven't even seen an episode.

god.

but i just watched a bunch of episodes last night.

dogg

but you'd never watch the food network. you are a LIAR.

watched ramsay kitchen nightmares US the other night, where he tames the asshole brother at the italian family restaurant in long island (?) and have a newfound respect for him. much less the bully than he usually seemed.

ramsay 's shows are awesome and his food always looks like the tits

I would never eat here anyway.

its hard going out to eat alone isn't it?

sorry, yr still not getting the reference, duder

btw, eating out alone on biz travel can be fantastic in my experience - chefs comp you extra courses, waiters flirt with you, neighbors looking for convo/connects can be interesting, etc. you gotta take the table rather than the seat at the bar tho.

Bourdain looks at food and talks about food, while Gordon makes food better. Some of Gordon's counseling moments are extremely painful to watch. Bourdain critiques. Gordon critiques + creates. So Gordon it is - also Ramsay looks like a old tree that has come alive and that puts it over the top for me.

It's unnecessary for an executive chef to be in the kitchen - I imagine French Laundry in Vegas would be a pretty damn good restaurant and I doubt Keller would be there much.

I love both these guys.

It's unnecessary for an executive chef to be in the kitchen - I imagine French Laundry in Vegas would be a pretty damn good restaurant and I doubt Keller would be there much.

-- bingolola, Tuesday, July 1, 2008 10:42 AM (22 minutes ago)

it's called Bouchon (in the Venetian), it opened 4 years ago I think.

and Keller was there last time I was there (MAGIC fall 2006)

I wish there was a second Steingarten book

haven't read the book but this guy comes across as a huge know-it-all douche on TV

and I doubt Keller would be there much

there was a crazy article (I think in the New Yorker) about how he has closed-circuit TV in his kitchens so he can be at Per Se in New York but watch what's going on at the French Laundry!