Take Back the Night marches, C/D?

bitches

These things just embolden the marchers. I predict that soon enough they will buy tridents and hand-nets and begin to terrorize whole neighborhoods.

I was generally supportive of these until I encountered one when walking back from my design studio late one night. Suddenly, simply for the crime of having a penis and walking in the wrong place at the wrong time, I became the target of taunts and anti-male chants. Massive dud.

dom make yourself useful and pull up that 'i like where this is going' jpg

and don't dilly dally on the way.

classic in principle, and in fact i've participated in one of these before, but like jon have also found myself made into a surprised target of frightening mob anger. can't say dud, but def not classic.

world's worst month:

http://www.humboldt.edu/~hsuwomen/images/Take%20back%20the%20night%202006%20Calendarpic.jpg

luckily, "party all the time" may was right around the corner.

http://www.portlandstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/3goatssmall.jpg

"male identified people needed"

check out the kid

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper851/stills/425a29875ff75-87-1.jpg

I am very opposed to all types of Take Back the Night events.

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper851/stills/425a29875ff75-87-1.jpg

Creating a climate of fear: C/D

fear is a man's best friend

yeah, about as much as those women pictured above are a man's best friend

i think the climate of fear is created by groups/people a whole lot more fearsome and influential than a bunch of women walking around one night a year

i think this happened to eric forman

i am okay with these marches but i don't go on them as they are not the way i do things

i mean, call me the eternal optimist, but i wish these marches were happier events. like celebrating people's power and existence and equality rather than being angry angry angry and yelling ow the yelling. i like yelling but not that kind of yelling. if it were happy whooping yelling, then i'd be in. hell, i'm angry at a lot of stuff re state of the world, but i don't channel it into more anger. also there is often really bad live music going on at some point agh whyyy

Hey, at least they're getting some exercise and fresh air... and are all gathered in one place and therefore easier to avoid.

Back in my day (An Old Man Writes...)they were called Reclaim The Night and they were often on response to calls from the police, which, back then in the early 80s, were often worded like "we would advise women not to go out at night" or "don't go anywhere without men" or just "don't go out" and quite rightly a lot of wimmin I knew didn't like that tone. In those circumstances I think they were probably a good thing. They used to be pretty cheerful events from what I gathered.

Also, lol at ilxors who can't take a bit of verbal from a bunch of girls.

hey, some of us are sensitive!

yeah tho i will say my reaction to tones like "we would advise women not to go out at night" is 'fuck you this is fucking ridiculous! raar' so uh... i partly take back my happy stance above. sometimes anger gets things done.
xpost

http://www.police.edmonton.ab.ca/Pages/CanineUnit/Christmas%20Cards/We%20Own%20The%20Night%20(2003).jpg

Also, lol at ilxors who can't take a bit of verbal from a bunch of girls.

-- Ned Trifle II, Monday, December 17, 2007 2:55 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

keke

I always think these marches have something to do with Sting.

totally have this song in my head now guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0brHGJ6xqbk

i think the climate of fear is created by groups/people a whole lot more fearsome and influential than a bunch of women walking around one night a year

Yeah, the other 364 days of the year they do nothing.

Also, lol at ilxors who can't take a bit of verbal from a bunch of girls.

Fuck you. Being called "rapist" and "sexually abusing asshole" for simply walking down the street /= "a bit of verbal".

otm

hey, joanie loves chachi, you gotta learn when to keep it tucked in, son

In a funny way it's the analog to me/us getting called a "piece of ass" for walking down the street, equally undeservedly.

Also, lol at ilxors who can't take a bit of verbal from a bunch of girls.

kinda condescending to both jon and the "bunch of girls", no?

(i'm going to regret posting to this thread i think)

more to the girls i thought. but it's just playground banter, i'd let it lie.

i think the climate of fear is created by groups/people a whole lot more fearsome and influential than a bunch of women walking around one night a year

Yeah, the other 364 days of the year they do nothing.

i don't get what this means!
i meant that a group of women protesting does make a difference on however small a scale and that it doesn't create a climate of fear compared to places/people who really create climate of fear
:/

Which, like, forgive me if you're all sensitive and enlightened and shit, but I've had too many perfectly "nice", "normal" men tell me "but but but it's not creepy when I whistle at/leer at/compliment women, because I'm not dangerous" to rush entirely to your defense.

2 rongs /= right

In a funny way it's the analog to me/us getting called a "piece of ass" for walking down the street, equally undeservedly.

And thats definitely not okay either!

xp No, but sometimes they are delicious.

(troll jpg otm)

In a funny way it's the analog to me/us getting called a "piece of ass" for walking down the street, equally undeservedly

Yeah, but what about a person who calls you a piece of ass as a compliment?

My point is this - some guys are just ill-equipped to express their feelings of attraction to a woman in terms OTHER than ones similar to this. That doesn't mean that their expressed sentiment should be taken as any less complimentary than a guy who says "Great ass" or "Nice ass" or "Great dress" or "great hair."

It seems to me that complimenting someone on their physical appearance is never a bad thing.

NOW, calling someone a piece of ass like a totally de-personified object - that's a problem.

But a great ass is a great ass. And I reserve the right to compliment someone on said ass.

ALSO - these marches are called "Take Back the Night"...

At what point in human history has it EVER been advisable for a woman to walk alone at night in the first place? I'm not saying its right or wrong, but I think not often. Therefore, did they ever HAVE the night to be taken from them in the first place?

now THAT is a great argument

shit, a "piece of ass" isn't even a whole regular ass on a person

I hope you all know that at 8 p.m. EST, only women will be able to post on this thread.

i remember my sophomore year roommate wanted to dress up in a bear costume and jump out of a bush screaming Rrrrrooaaawwr at the ladies of Take Back the Night. i told him to go for it.

Any man who posts will have his ass complimented.

At my school one of these marches sparked a massive debate at my school, mostly between feminist groups and conservative frat guys, that turned really ugly and at the peak of it a really vocal feminist student lied about being raped. It polarized the whole school and did nothing for the debate. I'm not at all for condemning these marches but it would be nice to be able to show concern for the attitudes behind them without being automatically called 'condescending' and 'sexist.'

-- adamj, Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:57 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

so like we said at the beginning of the thread ... being a jerk, c/d?

but way to argue against a protest of rape by pointing out that sometimes people on the 'right side' can be assholes too

environmentalism, c/d?

dud, ecoterrorists ruin it for everybody!!!

if only those rape-concerned feminists had stayed home so as not to antagonize the jocks

Do believe I said "I'm not at all for condemning these marches." I was using it as an example of how it's fairly cheap to use rape's emotional impact for mudslinging, and that doing things like that lower the debate to insults and stereotyping, a lot like what has happened to this thread.

Is it wrong to speak out against ecoterrorism?

Come on deej, you're caricaturing dude's argument.

"Stop lying about being raped, you're just antagonizing the jocks."

of course not, but its not like ecoterrorism is inherent to environmentalism, any more than folks faking rape is inherent to take back the night marches. obviously jerks are jerks, but even big hoos was on here saying "but def not classic" about a protest against rape. maybe there's some epidemic nationwide of these events sparking turmoil between jocks and feminists, causing folks to falsely cry rape or yell mean things at jon/via/chi but like i said, in my anecdotal exp. these things tend to be, on the whole, positive events calling attention to shit that needs attention called to it.

There's nobody in this country on the "wrong side" of the "rape debate"...

I said "def not classic" because of my antecdotal experience. A little further down, with the benefit of time to think, I also said I've organized them before and would organize them again. I just might caution my fellow marchers about where their anger is directed.

xp

There's nobody in this country on the "wrong side" of the "rape debate"...

-- Kerm, Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:00 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

rapists?

people who think rape is not an issue worth paying attention to or talking about?

HOOS also said "classic in principle" which is probably the best you're ever really gonna get out of any protest/direct action no matter how noble the cause.

At my school one of these marches sparked a massive debate at my school, mostly between feminist groups and conservative frat guys, that turned really ugly and at the peak of it a really vocal feminist student lied about being raped. It polarized the whole school and did nothing for the debate. I'm not at all for condemning these marches but it would be nice to be able to show concern for the attitudes behind them without being automatically called 'condescending' and 'sexist.'

^^^^ i think probably the conservative frat guys were on the "wrong side" of the "rape debate" on this one, even if one--ONE--of the women lied about a rape.

show concern for the attitudes behind them

what are these attitudes?

Rapists don't debate. People who don't care or talk about rape don't debate it either. Just because someone thinks critically about your protest doesn't mean they're sexist or don't care about rape.

I'd be interested in what those "conservative frat guys'" positions were, but I very seriously doubt they comprised a pro-rape camp.

there is a whole range of positions within a general "anti-rape" rubric that are sexist, oppressive and generally harmful

Like "don't trust men, they're sexual predators."

http://classes.design.ucla.edu/si06/student_html/desma2/sessionA/drew/narrative/referee.jpg

I'm just going to get way, way the fuck away from this thread.

http://xs222.xs.to/xs222/07513/hoos_ref.png
l-r: everyone, hoos, everyone

9.5/10

kerm you aren't coming close to thinking critically on this thread

borderline trollish/banworthy obtuse more like

some of the trolls here would've loved the 70s
Why Was Rape Considered So Hilarious in the 70s?

Come on deej ilx, you're caricaturing dude's every opposing argument.

Get over yourself, deej. You have done nothing but indict and accuse anyone who dares to think critically about Take Back the Night... You even asked "what's to debate?" How can you talk about critical thinking if you can't even THINK of anything anyone would want to take issue with here? The premise of the thread apparently offends you so much that you've recommended banning two people here already. If you don't want to participate, or it pisses you off too much to read what anybody else has to say, then follow the FAQ and take a break.

Drug cartels aren't run by girls, and all men in Bogota aren't violent criminals. Ban women from going out for a day and see what happens to department store sales, then ask yourself which stereotypes you've resorted to and which gender you've disrespected most.

-- Kerm, Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:49 PM

FYI this thread sux

or is that BTW

See, there's this stereotype that women like shopping.

i know!

lol? at

people who think rape is not an issue worth paying attention to or talking about? ET AL

followed by

kerm you aren't coming close to thinking critically on this thread

As much as I don't care about TBTN marches, one way or the other, I really don't think they're the least bit effective. If women started shooting the balls offa rapists, that might have a bit more of an impact.

roxy wtf are you talking about

Since someone has already made the Veronica Mars joke (damn you), I will just say this:

I think these events make more sense in certain kinds of environments (usually college campuses) where the night-time danger is shitty or violent behavior by your own social peers and fellow students: back in the 90s, at least, it seemed like they were pretty positive, and just generally fostered a sense of alertness/awareness and (most importantly) women looking out for one another. Not in a besieged or victimized way, either -- just looking out for one another, and in a public way that would hopefully send a message to some people/men that they should behave in the first place.

But I don't know if they've changed since then, because since then I've lived in exactly the kinds of urban environments where they don't make a ton of sense: there doesn't seem to be much point to them when the night-time danger is the kind of street crime that leaves men and women both mostly concerned about not getting violently robbed, and people are highly safety-aware to begin with. I can't imagine they've changed enough over the past years that shouting at random male passersby is anything but an abberation on the part of people who are Doing It Wrong -- but I'd also guess that the positive "let's look out for one another" vibe seems a little 90s and corny to some kids today, so maybe it's whittling down to the radicals or something.

well put, old bean

shouting at random male passersby is anything but an abberation on the part of people who are Doing It Wrong

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that

big hoos i thought someone talked to you about doing that

and on a nabisco post no less! have you no sense of decorum

O..O
vvvv
^^^^

vahid is that the monster from cloverfield??

saying that women don't share responsibility for their own safety seems like a distressed-damsel cop-out.

-- elmo argonaut, Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:05 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

wau you really are a grade-a cockwipe.

well put, old bean

-- moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 06:33

Nabisco WPOB

wow i really regret having my name pop up at the top of this thread every time

so i should probably stop bumping it, huh

that one guy, you have obvious reading comprehension problems

http://www.derekerdman.com/1/LOU_BEGA_THE_NIGHT.jpg

Lou Bega the night?!

I'm impressed he knows all their names!

fpd u for that nv