TIGER ATAK !!!!

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1.
December 26th,
2007
12:56 pm

Et tu, Tony?

— Posted by Bill
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2.
December 26th,
2007
1:22 pm

I have no doubt that we will soon learn that the three male youths harassed and taunted the tiger.

— Posted by Carol Anne
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3.
December 26th,
2007
1:46 pm

Carol Anne, please read the story, the two brothers were attacked when the tiger entered the cafe’… I guess they were taunting the tiger by eating? DUH!

— Posted by David Fantaci
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4.
December 26th,
2007
2:00 pm

Please, Carol Anne. Even the most brazen and obnoxious “male youths” I’ve known would not be so foolish as to taunt an escaped Siberian tiger as it prowls a zoo cafeteria.

— Posted by Stephen
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5.
December 26th,
2007
2:03 pm

And no doubt if it were three female youths, no incident would have occurred, correct, Carol Anne?

What an absurd, pathetic response to this tragedy.

— Posted by Andrew Pandap
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6.
December 26th,
2007
2:08 pm

It’s all Bush’s fault…

— Posted by FROOKIE
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7.
December 26th,
2007
2:12 pm

If someone is bold enough look an unrestrained tiger in the eye and taunt it, he or she certainly deserves to be mauled. Unfortunately for the unsuspecting people involved in this Christmas day tragedy, that’s just not what happened, Carol Anne.

— Posted by Mickey Ley
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8.
December 26th,
2007
2:12 pm

Its a dangerous wild animal. Behavior is always unpredictable. I won’t villianize the animal, but I certainly won’t place the blame on innocent bystanders either.

— Posted by KJ
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9.
December 26th,
2007
2:15 pm

Humans kept in cages would act the same way.

Stop whining!

Don’t keep the tigers (or other animals) in cages and then whine when they act as wild animals, or take revenge.

— Posted by Teutonic-1
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10.
December 26th,
2007
2:17 pm

Off topic, but, it’s so annoying.

“It’s not every day . . . . ” Two words. Everyday is an adjective (and I curse Toyota for it’s multi-million dollar ad campaign that contributed so mightily to make it otherwise.

Ridge (in New Joisey)

— Posted by Ridge
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11.
December 26th,
2007
2:17 pm

Blaming Bush won’t help this at all… I say get rid of zoos or at least build bigger walls around the exhibits. Also, I have personally seen people taunting lions, tigers, and other large predators at zoos almost every time I’ve been to one. Most of the time it’s a group of young males (although younger than 20, more like 12-15). It’s unnatural to keep animals like this, and for some reason we can’t leave them alone when they’re there. Add those together and we have what happened yesterday.

— Posted by anon
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12.
December 26th,
2007
2:18 pm

They need freedom. Even you will get wild if aliens keep you in cage.

— Posted by SAM
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13.
December 26th,
2007
2:20 pm

This is a public safety issue. Tigers are very dangerous, and pose a great risk to people, even if caged, but especially living in the jungle. We need to do what is best for the protection of innocent human beings, and capture and exterminate all tigers and other dangerous animals before another person is killed. We can not accept the possibility that this may happen again and governments need to be given our support in the war against Tigers and other cats. Cats are dangerous to both humans and the rest of the environment. When will we decide enough is enough and finally eliminate them?

— Posted by Rudy
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14.
December 26th,
2007
2:20 pm

David, Stephen and Andrew…The tiger attacked outside of the closed cafe. All three men were brothers. Silly to jump all over a commenter when you do not have all the facts.

— Posted by Kathryn
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15.
December 26th,
2007
2:21 pm

Tight FROOKIE LOL !!

— Posted by Tariq
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16.
December 26th,
2007
2:22 pm

“Et tu, Tony?”

Seriously, is death a time to try and be funny? Don’t you have anything more to say as a human in this time of loss of life? So sad to be you.

As for the unidentified person who lost his life at a young age I send my prayers.

-Posted by Not Bill

— Posted by Whyarepeoplelikethis
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17.
December 26th,
2007
2:22 pm

i’m sure we will here that taunted her but not because they actually did. because the zoo needs to cover it up that she really was dangerous.

— Posted by kristina
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18.
December 26th,
2007
2:25 pm

I agree Carol Anne. What are three twenty year olds doing hanging out at a zoo after closing on Christmas night. They must have been up to something.

— Posted by JP
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19.
December 26th,
2007
2:27 pm

Wild cats should not be kept in zoos. Keep them in the wild and protect them.

— Posted by Bob Minke
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20.
December 26th,
2007
2:31 pm

This article doesn’t mention that they spent $250,000 on upgrading the safety precautions with the tigers after Tatiana attacked the zoo keeper. I imagine that’s only a fraction of what they will be spending on legal fees and a wrongful death case. Zoos belong in the wild and people shouldn’t mess with them. In the wild, they don’t necessarily avoid humans. If you don’t believe me, watch just how amazing this bengal tiger video is. It is not gruesome but it shows a tiger leaping onto an elephant to attack a human. That’s right, leaping out from a rice field onto an elephant to attack a guy sitting on top of the elephant. Amazing creatures.

Tiger video in the wild:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=foUVt2d2AMM

— Posted by Andy Rack
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21.
December 26th,
2007
2:31 pm

Already people are making excuses for the tiger. It’s a tiger. They are MADE TO KILL. I am sick of people who worship these things, (some experts included) trying to paint predators of the wild as being somehow mis interpreted.

Conservation and the environment are great things to address, but please don’t lose your ability to add 1 + 1. Thank you.

— Posted by Liam
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22.
December 26th,
2007
2:35 pm

If the tiger was already known to be a potential threat, why wasn’t it taken and released to the wild where it could hunt its natural game and not humans?

— Posted by Ron
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23.
December 26th,
2007
2:35 pm

I give my greatest condolences to the deceased poor young man’s family. What a tragic event.

— Posted by Kash
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24.
December 26th,
2007
2:37 pm

The part of the story that seems most ridiculous is the surgeon’s assertion, “I don’t think they’ll have any lasting effects.” Right, a tiger comes into a cafe and mauls you, “as if pulled straight from a horror movie” and there aren’t going to be any lasting effects?

PTSD doesn’t just happen to war veteranw.

— Posted by David
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25.
December 26th,
2007
2:39 pm

As a San Francisco Zoo member and frequent patron, I can tell you that it would not take much for an animal as lithe and athletic as a tiger to get out of one of those enclosures if it chose to do so. I have often stood about 20 yards from the animal in question wondering what prevents it from leaping out and pouncing on whomever it chooses. The Zoo itself is generally old and in disrepair. The paddocks where the big cats are kept (as well as some of the bears) were designed in an era when animal comfort and safety took a backseat to people’s viewing conveniences. Frankly, it’s an embarrassment and a shame. Perhaps the tiger grew tired of living its life in an inadequate enclosure. Perhaps it grew annoyed by the incessant din of the nearby miniature locomotive that runs ALL day long. Perhaps he simply got tired of being gawked at my loud-mouthed, cigarette smoking, litter bugs. Who knows? But one thing’s for sure, for all the ‘good’ zoos do, tigers, and giraffe’s and grizzly bears do not belong in them. And when a keeper or visitor is occasionally mauled, I cannot help but think about how many tigers and lions and polar bears were killed by idiots looking for head mounts for their dens, or rugs or coats. That poor guy did not deserve to die, but either did all the tigers who were killed in the name of sport.

— Posted by vincent
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26.
December 26th,
2007
2:40 pm

Per Adam Housley, sources within the SF Police Dept indicate the attack may have been provoked; however, those sources are not identified by name.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318365,00.html
http://housley.blogs.foxnews.com/

— Posted by Ann
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27.
December 26th,
2007
2:41 pm

lets get this straight- we can’t blame the tiger. keeping an individual of a particular species surrounded ,albeit separated by due precautions, by members of other species, i mean humans , can transform even the most calm animal into a savage monster. what right we have of caging these magnificient beasts who are the rulers of their realms and whom we make them stay in small enclosures as objects of display-whom ill behaved spectators yell at and taunt, simply beacuse they know they are immune from the wrath of these animals owing to the enclosures built.
zoos have to go finally, at the most we can have national zoological parks where the animals live in an envoirnment which simulates their natural surroundings. i’m sorry for those who were killed or maimed but as long as keep on adhering to maintaining zoos and the like, such tragedies will keep on happening.

— Posted by nishit sawal
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28.
December 26th,
2007
2:42 pm

There’s no doubt that Zoo officials knew that this was a very dangerous animal. With that, extraordinary precautions should have been taken, to keep her from injuring humans again. Frankly, I’m surprised the animal wasn’t put down after it’s first attack. However, considering the strength of politically correct nutters of the so called “Animal Rights” pressure movement, I really shouldn’t be surprised at all…

— Posted by Tex
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29.
December 26th,
2007
2:42 pm

No doubt, the tiger was a republican, spurred on by global warming, attacking three innocent liberals.

— Posted by Top Gisewhite
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30.
December 26th,
2007
2:46 pm

I read the article about this, along with the list of animal attacks, and I had to wonder if it was necessary to kill the animals in all of these cases. One was a case of three chimps who had escaped and eluded capture. Surely a tranquilizer dart could have been used instead of bullets. They do it to save wild animals on a regular basis, so why do captive animals automatically receive the death penalty? I mean, it’s our fault they’re in captivity in the first place.

— Posted by Marian B
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31.
December 26th,
2007
2:46 pm

My wife and I were visiting the Zoo on Monday and I thought as I looked at that huge cat, why couldn’t it just jump across the dry moat to the side we were standing on. For a cat that size, I don’t think it would be difficult. One would think they’d at least have an electrified fence or something.

— Posted by Phil in New Jersey
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32.
December 26th,
2007
2:47 pm

Tigers are wild animals, and don’t need anything to set them off. That’s one reason I marvel at zoos and the people who get in a cage with them. As Siegfried and Roy found out, no amount of time with them takes that nature away from them.

So… what could the zoo have done to protect its customers? That’s the real question.

— Posted by Fargin' Icehole
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33.
December 26th,
2007
2:50 pm

I can’t believe the tiger was shot dead rather than being shot with a tranquilizer gun. The tiger was only being a tiger. Why are people so shocked when a wild animal behaves as it is supposed to? It was scared, finally free of the horrid cage it lived in–there was a photo posted earlier showing the tiger in a caged, glassed in room/display–and it behaved as expected. Why the shock? Yes, it’s sad that people were injured and that someone died, but it’s certainly not shocking given the nature of wild animals.

— Posted by Valerie Kennedy
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34.
December 26th,
2007
2:51 pm

This particular tiger may not have ever seen the wild before. Some zoo animals are born and raised in capitivity. This does not make them any less deadly which is what the SF zoo just experienced.

— Posted by Sam
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35.
December 26th,
2007
2:52 pm

Like magnificent comedian, Chris Rock once said: “That tiger didn’t go crazy, that tiger went tiger”

— Posted by Terry
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36.
December 26th,
2007
2:54 pm

Off topic to the amusingly misinformed grammar cop-

Everyday vs Every day
Everyday and every day are commonly confused in English. There’s no difference in pronunciation, but using the wrong one when writing is a mistake in the everyday English you use every day.

Everyday

Everyday is an adjective that means commonplace, ordinary, or normal.

These shoes are great for everyday wear

You shouldn’t wear an everyday outfit to the wedding

Don’t use the everyday dishes - it’s a special occasion

Every day

Every day means “each day.”

I go to the park every day

I have to work every day this week except Friday

Every day I feel a little better

The Bottom Line

Everyday is a single word and is an adjective, so it’s the one that describes something normal. Every day is an adjective (every) plus noun, and it means every (each) day.

Have a nice one. :)

— Posted by Valarie Dickey
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37.
December 26th,
2007
2:56 pm

Add your comment without direct or personal references and/or attacks to previous comments. If you’ve sent a comment that I did not approve for the above reason, recast it and I’ll give it a second look.

Kathleen McElroy (moderating The Lede comments)

— Posted by Kathleen McElroy
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38.
December 26th,
2007
2:56 pm

re: Ridge and “everyday”

Everyday is being used correctly here. The sentence asks for an adjective, in this case “everyday”, a synonym for “daily”. As in “It’s not black” or “It’s not cold”. If what you write is correct, then the sentence should be able to be read “It’s not day” or “It’s not the day” which makes no sense.

— Posted by polycarp
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39.
December 26th,
2007
2:57 pm

Kathryn #13: There has been no report that the deceased is related to the two brothers. In addition, the dead man was found outside the tiger’s grotto while the two brothers were attacked 300 meters away inside the open restaurant.

JP #17: The zoo closes to new visitors at 5pm but allows those who are already inside to stay until 6pm so why would it be suspicious for them to be there (along with a large number of other visitors)? The zoo is a popular Christmas destination for some in the SF Bay Area.

— Posted by Why speculate?
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40.
December 26th,
2007
2:59 pm

The tiger wasn’t released into the wild because it had found humans to be tasty and easy to catch. What I want to know is why it wasn’t killed after it tried to eat the handler. If a bear attacks a human in the wild it is killed even though the human was infringing on the bear’s territory or space at the time. What makes a tiger special?

— Posted by Grumpy
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41.
December 26th,
2007
3:02 pm

The photo in todays Times, dated September and taken by Ben Margot, shows Tatiana in a cage with a lock that is not closed. It is hanging on the cage, but clearly unsecured.
Could this be how the tiger escaped?

— Posted by dan
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42.
December 26th,
2007
3:02 pm

When a tiger is in the wild, what are its three biggest problems? finding food, finding shelter and avoiding predators
In a zoo what does a tiger have? Food, Shelter and no predators. Zoos are a good thing. (Read “The Life of Pi” for a more complete defense of zoos.)

The three men were in the zoo after the gates had closed but prior to the zoo closing. They stop letting people in at 5, but do not close until 6. Pray for the men and their families and please do not jump to conclusions without all the facts.

— Posted by D Gradlet
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43.
December 26th,
2007
3:03 pm

Instead of turning this tragedy into a farce by spewing inane political rhetoric or making this a sexism issue, we would do better to acknowledge that wild animals are not meant to be kept in captivity. I understand the “conservation of species” role zoos can play but there is no reason to put these animals on display to make money. Much better to see them in their own environments thanks to the technology that allows to film them on location. Such endeavors have the added bonus of raising awareness to saving said environments, the loss of which is one of the major causes of species being on the brink of extinction. Close the zoos…

— Posted by Paloma Vita
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44.
December 26th,
2007
3:04 pm

The guys who were in the Cafe might not have done anyhting, just wrong place, wrong time when the tiger was at her most agrresive state. But read that the tiger might have been taunted maybe by the guy who was actually killed right outside the pen. Something had to set it off to either jump or climb at of enclosure.

— Posted by Lisa
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45.
December 26th,
2007
3:07 pm

Even though most are born into captivity, I think it is cruel to keep large cats, bears and other animals in these small environments for their entire lives. The purpose of Zoos is for public education - fine, but either give them more space or rotate the animals out to a sancturary/compound where they can roam. A grotto like this may seem nice a roomy to humans, but not to an animal that normally roams thousands of acres. Zoos are getting better, but they have a ways to go. If people insist on the convenience of having these Zoos and their small enclosures conveniently located within cities so buses of school children can see live specimens, at least periodically rotate these beautiful creatures out to a sanctuary compound to help ease their frustrations. I cannot help but think this cat simply could not handle the frustration imposed by it’s captivity in the grotto. Zoos should be required (if not already) to maintain security cameras around the enclosures of these animals. Anyone caught taunting them should be reprimanded and the cameras could provide evidence on how the animal escaped and, God forbid, anything like this should ever happen again. My heart goes out to the injured and their families.

— Posted by Trish
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46.
December 26th,
2007
3:07 pm

This string is the most mind-numbing inane bit of nonsense I’ve encountered. It would be interesting to learn the facts of the incident without leaping tiger-like to conclusions.

— Posted by Wes
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47.
December 26th,
2007
3:09 pm

Teutonic-1

“Humans kept in cages would act the same way.”

Tigers are kept in cages to give people a chance to satisfy their curiosity without having to invade the tiger’s habitat. Without zoos, there would be no wild tigers.

By the way, humans ARE kept in cages, and they DO the same way when they get out. But just like with tigers, we have a well-established rationale for imprisoning certain humans, and just like with tigers, things would be worse if we didn’t do it.

— Posted by Greg
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48.
December 26th,
2007
3:09 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/us/26tiger.html?hp

Notice the lock in the left hand side of the cage? Could this be how the tiger escaped?

— Posted by dan
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49.
December 26th,
2007
3:09 pm

Only humans want freedom? We are ALL animals here; some more intelligent than others. Tigers, lions and bears seemed to be able to birth, feed, live and die quite nicely for a very long time without humans enslaving them in zoos, “for their own good” of course.

— Posted by Bill
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50.
December 26th,
2007
3:10 pm

seriously folks this is a tragedy and should be treated as such. that being said, there really doesn’t need to be a clear cut reason why this happened, nor does there need to be blame placed on anyone right now. I am sure there will be an investigation, it will reveal the reason fro this TRAGIC ACCIDENT. There will always be debates about keeping wild animals in captivity, but that wont bring this poor young man back, nor will it heal the wounds of the other two. Did get a chuckle from the self righteous people posting on here who go immediately to the far left with things like serves em right for taunting and what were the 3 men doing on Christmas Night in a zoo. Comical to say the least. Everyone needs to go look in the mirror and repeat after me, My opinion really only means something to me. I cannot impose my thoughts or will on another human being just because I want to.

— Posted by Brian
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51.
December 26th,
2007
3:11 pm

Why were patrons there after closing time? I’ll tell you why - because entry to the zoo ends at 5pm but people are still allowed to linger as they make their way to the exits. I know. I’ve been there. The patrons who were attacked were NOT up to after-hours mischief. They were just enjoying the zoo at its quietest time.

— Posted by Tom
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52.
December 26th,
2007
3:13 pm

Humans have taken over tiger habitat, resulting in decreased numbers, and then forced them (to conserve their dwindled numbers and to entertain us and assuage our guilt) into very constrained quarters surrounded by and dependent on their captors.

However, I cannot imagine circumstances under which I would lay bets on the tiger NOT taking a bite out of some living mammal. Tigers are smart, complex, stunning meat-loving carnivorous beasts.

I have to admit that I find the human death and the tiger death equally unfortunate.

— Posted by Trish Szymanski
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53.
December 26th,
2007
3:13 pm

A tiger is a perfect killing machine. We anthropomorphize them in stuffed animals a cuddly
little kittens shown on TV by Jack Hannah. When they
do what nature has evolved them to do we are shocked,
shocked. Let’s get real, the animal is not at fault, we are.

— Posted by Len
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54.
December 26th,
2007
3:14 pm

•It was two brothers in a cafe, the other guy is not mentioned as a brother.
•We have no idea about taunting.
•In the wild, Siberian Tigers are an endangered species about to be eliminated as a species, so releasing in the wild is not really an option.
•Eliminating ever animal on earth that may be a danger to humans sounds awful ridiculous. What about automobiles? guns? water where people drown? natural gas because it is dangerous? gasoline because if you drink it you die? The common cold?

•

— Posted by Fred Fep
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55.
December 26th,
2007
3:15 pm

I think it was in poor taste for the Times to have posted this as a blog. Much of the commentary is even cruder than I would have expected.

— Posted by malnicore
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56.
December 26th,
2007
3:15 pm

This is only my opinion, just like all of you. The tiger was only doing what comes naturally. She is a wild animal not a tame housecat. I feel really bad for the three boys and their families. However, zoos were built by humans for humans to go see wild animals who were taken from their natural habitat, and put on display. This is inhumane and drives a naturally wild animal into a descent into madness. Just like an insane human displays an unnatural amount of strength. So does the wild animal, driven mad by enclosed in a cage. This enhanced level of madness probably enabled the tiger to jump the moat and climb the containment fencing.

— Posted by Lori
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57.
December 26th,
2007
3:16 pm

If they find it was human error that led to the Tiger escape, that person should be feed to the tigers or shot. If not at least tried for murder. The tiger did not ask to be put in that cage. A child knows that any caged animal wants to be free. Why we as humans feel we have the right to cage animals for our viewing pleasure is beyond me. Seems that all life has inalienable rights, not just the top of the food chain.

— Posted by Michael Toth
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58.
December 26th,
2007
3:17 pm

“It’s not every day …” Two words are correct in this instance. In context they are just that, two words. The one-word adjective “everyday” would be correct only if it was used to modify something, say, the word “occurrence,” as in “It’s not an everyday occurrence.”

In Dallas a few years ago a group of teenagers was taunting a gorilla at the zoo. The gorilla made a near miraculous jump and successfully escaped its enclosure. The teenagers, who were throwing ice chips at the animal, were never caught. Sadly, the gorilla had to be shot and killed because several people were in its path. It had grabbed a stroller, with a toddler in it, and the mother tried to defend her child. The police had no choice. There was no time to wait for a tranquilizer gun. Amazingly, no humans were killed or seriously injured.

I don’t know the circumstances of the brothers involved in the San Francisco tiger incident. It sounds like they may have been minding their own business. Regardless, it is a shame that the tiger was allowed to escape and kill someone. Sad, too, that the tiger was confined in the first place under the stresses of an unnatural environment, and paid with her life for acting like a tiger.

She probably would not have survived had she ever been released in the wild, unless she had not been born in captivity.

A terribly sad situation all the way around.

— Posted by Candace
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59.
December 26th,
2007
3:20 pm

This is a sad tragic accident in which you can’t blame the tiger or the innocent bystanders. Tigers are wild unpredictable animals regardless of their environment. Getting rid of zoos is not the answer– they are needed to save such endangered/ injured species. To all of those affected by this horrible event… I am truly sorry…

— Posted by Erin
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60.
December 26th,
2007
3:20 pm

I’m a zookeeper, thoughI won’t disclose where as these comments must be taken as my own.

“There’s no doubt that Zoo officials knew that this was a very dangerous animal”
Yes, friend, it was a tiger. That’s why it had a moat and wall around it and why the keepers who tended it are highly-trained individuals. The tiger didn’t do what it did because of being in captivity. Wild tigers lose their fear of humans as civilization encroaches on their territory, there are many dead Sumatrans, Bengalese, and Indians to back up that claim. She did what tigers do and, yes, she had to be shot with a bullet because the bullets are first on the scene and more reliable than darts. There was a containment failure, not a behavioral or procedural one.

— Posted by Mark
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61.
December 26th,
2007
3:21 pm

It appears the Zoo underestimated how far the tiger could jump/climb. Every zoo should be carefully reassessing their enclosures in light of this terrible tragedy.

— Posted by robert
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62.
December 26th,
2007
3:22 pm

carol an is right. those guy where probably at the zoo on Christmas throwing rocks at the tiger. this is a greatly cherished pastime that has been passed down through the ages in san Fransisco. as carol probably also knows. tigers hate it when you stop throwing rocks at them so they go on the attack. and the custom is to kill or mame at least three people two who are eating at the snack bar. this past time is also enjoyed by monkeys throwing poo at people passing by. the only mistake the tiger made was not hunting down carol.

— Posted by ted
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63.
December 26th,
2007
3:23 pm

Speculation based on rumours is rampant.
Cable News Channels are reporting every rumour they hear, as they typically do in all stories.

An investigation of the scene is ongoing by forensic experts who will be able to find physical evidence to either support or reject the notion that this tiger leaped across a 15 foot mote then climbed a 20 foot high concrete wall. Tiger experts are extremely skeptical that any tiger could scale a such a wall. If she did, there will most decidedly be physical evidence on the wall (claw marks) to support that’s how she escaped.

After the initial man was killed, the two bros no doubt ran, reaching the cafe (300 ft away)where Tatiana attacked them. Thorough investigation of the entire scene, I’m confident, will reveal how that tiger escaped and I absolutely don’t believe she went up a 20 foot vertical concrete wall.

— Posted by Heli
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64.
December 26th,
2007
3:24 pm

I went to the circus years ago. They had a tiger act. Two of the tigers appeared to be feuding with each other. After the act, when the trainer was leading them out of the cage, the two tigers decided to have it out. They broke away, and came within 15 feet of me. If they hadn’t been occupied with each other, I might not be writing this now.

Ian Malcolm, in Jurassic Park, says, ‘Nature will find a way.’ Put humans in juxtaposition with tigers, and you have to expect a few losses.

— Posted by Howard E. Miller
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65.
December 26th,
2007
3:24 pm

Moralizing about animals in zoo’s or cages makes no sense. If it’s part of being an animal to be running freely killing your prey, then it’s part of being a human to study and observe them. I have no problem with either situation, in fact, if it were not for humans exercising restraint, these animals would have been hunted to extinction. We are the only creatures with such morality. Although it is sad that african poachers violate laws to kill such animals; as well as chinese exotic animal organ poachers (both are well documented) in the industrialized western world animals have been well cared for. Zoo’s play a role in conservatorship. If you need to express outrage, go to africa, china, or malaysia. There you’ll see the reality of animal abuse.

— Posted by John
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66.
December 26th,
2007
3:24 pm

Folks, you are all arguing parts of the situation that should be connected and some are arguing against others but not fully understanding what the other is trying to say.

The tiger acted in a manner that is normal for a tiger. The animal got out of its area and left to roam, any wild animal will seek out prey. With nothing else to attack it attacked a human (or three). Its not even amazing that they were human. A large wild cat will do this when the conditions of the situation are a certain way as they were here. The animal was not acting any more dangerously than if it were in the wild. It is within this animal’s natural instincts to protect itself or seek out prey if hungry. This animal was in an unfamiliar area was agitated by the presence of humans.

If they young men had taunted the tiger, then they raised the chances that they would be attacked, but the tiger could have attacked anyway, since it is in its nature to do so. This is why it was kept in a space from the public where it could not hurt anyone. Unfortunately a zookeeper got an experience of what a tiger will do in the wild. The animal was acting from instinct.

I agree that these animals need a better place to live, but some of these animals can’t survive in the wild regardless of their natural prowess and instincts. Disney’s Wild Kingdom is a good example of attempting to make a better place for captive animals since it gives them a large area to roam and do what they want.

You can never remove a wild animal’s natural instincts. Not even a tiget born in captivity. Their instincts go deeper than that. If it were even possible to domesticate a tiger it would take 100’s of years as it would for many animals. Its not the same as dogs and house cats.

As for the brothers being there on X-Mas Day, maybe they are animal lovers or had not seen eachother ina long time and went to a favorite place a kids. To just presume they caused the attack is ridiculous. There are far too many factors involved here and we may never really know the specific reason this animal attacked, except that it is in it’s nature - part of its instincts.

— Posted by JK
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67.
December 26th,
2007
3:24 pm

well,, as of last reports, it appears that Carol Anne is to be vindicated for her earlier comments. doesn’t it sure feel good to be able to say “I told you so”, once in a while?

— Posted by scott
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68.
December 26th,
2007
3:26 pm

That poor young man. What a tragic loss of life. It’s horrible to blame the animal or to state that it was provoked- People of all ages, gengers etc, enjoy going to the zoo it isn’t just for kids. It isn’t for any of us to question why 20 something men/brothers were visiting a zoo! One life is one too many for any family to loose! especially at xmas. My prayers go out to them.

— Posted by A. Oz.
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69.
December 26th,
2007
3:26 pm

Something doesn’t ring right with this incident. To use an old cliche ‘were there is smoke….

Hoping my gut is wrong - one’s life is really an awful price for the presumed scenario of a taunted tiger.

— Posted by michelle
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70.
December 26th,
2007
3:26 pm

My condolences go to the dead man’s family. My best wishes go to the injured survivors. My opinions wait until I hear the facts. Why? It’s certainly not because I’m smarter than anyone else, because I’m not. Maybe it’s because I’m lazy and not inclined to get into an uproar if I’ll just have to backtrack later on. Waiting for the facts is easier.

— Posted by larkspur
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71.
December 26th,
2007
3:27 pm

Captive animals cannot be released into the wild as they’d have no idea how to function out there. And you’d be surprised at how many zoo animals are actually animals rescued from much worse fates in small circuses and even private homes. But the bottom line is, they are still WILD animals and that’s why zoos have all kinds of rules about how keepers should deal with them–which typically involve not getting in the same space with them. Until we know the details we won’t know whether these rules were breached or if some kind of sabotage or criminal activity was involved, but many people routinely underestimate the potential for harm that any wild animal represents.

— Posted by Sandy M
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72.
December 26th,
2007
3:30 pm

Tigers do not belong in Zoos. Has anyone ever seen a wild cat, or any other “dangerous” wild animal that looks happy stuck in a cage or enclosure at a zoo?

— Posted by Mark
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73.
December 26th,
2007
3:33 pm

At this point we have absolutely no clue about the details surrounding this event, so blaming anything or anybody (the tiger, the youths, the zoo, etc.) is just conjecture with no foundation in the facts as of yet. All that is known for certain is that this tiger attacked three people, and a family is missing one of its members.

As far as the “lasting effects” observation goes, I believe the surgeon was referring to the physical injuries, not PTSD or anything psychological.

— Posted by David Gaines
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74.
December 26th,
2007
3:34 pm

This is what we’ve come to….First off we keep animals from birth oh yeah and breed them to be captive. No matter how stupid some people hold these animals, the credit definitely belongs to their intelligence. We praise their beauty and walk joyfully along a circus of mazes for trapped animals to entertain us. Dont get me wrong I love the zoo and I am not even an animal rights activist by any means, but we as humans dont seem to forsee the reprocussions to our actions, that is why we follow so many pointless and meaningless traditions. But anyways before I go on a MAJOR tantrum, Carol Anne! What the heck, okay you might be right sometimes if you weren’t so ignorant! I am a 20 year old male and if I saw an tiger anywhere in San Francisco, I would have to know its escaped. Therefore taunting becomes irrelevant and obsolete, becasue the tiger already made up its mind. And oh yeah the three people that got attacked had nothing to do with the tiger period. PERIOD!Except they were the victims, this is unfortunate, horrible and all those synonyms…But if its not expected, then we as humans should not be expected to live any longer. Because precursor actions or non actions will lead us to our demise. The very simple and prevalent example is the general well being of this “circus”tiger. Just another part of the show. My heart goes out to all the families and the victims’ recovery. May the lost soul rest in peace. May responsibility be glorified, but may false glory needs to be pushed aside, putting blame on someone wont cut it! Oh yeah, CAROL ANNE! Are you serious!?????

— Posted by Justin A Nyerges
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75.
December 26th,
2007
3:34 pm

This is a tragic incident and the zoo is to be blamed for the tiger to escape when most of us think we are at a safe distance. They should have better understanding of capability of each species and more saftey regulation must be implemented.

— Posted by leapord
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76.
December 26th,
2007
3:34 pm

It’s a wonder this country has an obesity problem with so many getting their exercise by jumping to conclusions.

As of this writing, the dead victim has not been identified at all, much less as a brother of the other two. The zoo stops selling tickets at 5pm and visitors have till 6pm to exit, so it is doubtful these poor guys were up to no good.

The curious aspects of this trajedy are how the tiger got loose and who dead victim is.

— Posted by Dustin by the Bay
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77.
December 26th,
2007
3:36 pm

My condolences to the families of the deceased and the two injured youths.

The only blame here rests with the San Francisco Zoo because of its inability to keep a tiger safely within its enclosure.

I’m quite disappointed to read the shameful comments that turn this into something it isn’t, all the while betraying a great ignorance of animal behavior, conservation, etc.

— Posted by Sciros
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78.
December 26th,
2007
3:37 pm

True statements:
1. Tigers are wild animals
2. Confining wild animals in a small area is a major stressor
3. Some humans (of any chronological age) enjoy taunting animals

All of the above likely contributed to the attack, but WHY IN HEAVEN’S NAME did zoo officials not arm every first responder with tranquilizer darts? Siberian tigers are one of the earth’s most magnificent creatures; why is a tiger’s life worth any less than a human’s? We would all be poorer if tigers were to become extinct.

— Posted by A rational tiger-lover
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79.
December 26th,
2007
3:37 pm

The tiger was doing what tigers instinctively do. The zoo was providing a home for a critically endangered Siberian tiger which likely would not have been alive if totally left up to Mother Nature and the big, cruel world. The young men were enjoying Christmas at the zoo. Sometimes bad things happen, and we don’t really need to blame someone or something.

— Posted by Paul
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80.
December 26th,
2007
3:39 pm

The whole incident is tragic. Yesterday was a beautiful day in SF and many people visit the zoo (located right next to the beach) on holidays. In a crowded city it is a pleasant 1000 acres of green (yes, even in December). The zoo is a mixed bag of badly aging older areas and a few new exhibits. The tiger enclosure is dated but has a deep moat and high walls. The cafe isn’t far from the cats but not within sight due to the moat and landscape. THe zoo is on a tight budget, needs many repairs though the animals appear well cared for…I wouldn’t be surprised if the future of the zoo is in doubt. It is a bit of relic.

— Posted by Jim McGrath
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81.
December 26th,
2007
3:40 pm

My condolences to the family of the young man that was killed . Hope the zoo helps the two survivors of the attack in some way shape or form This was a tragic and freakish event.

It is a shame that people find it necessary to blame anyone for such a tragedy.

I feel that zoos are a thing of the past. We have two large zoos in Chicago and whenever I visit them, I feel a sadness for the animals that I can’t explain. They are wild animals after all, even when “born in captivity”.

— Posted by Laurie
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82.
December 26th,
2007
3:43 pm

About 2 years ago a gorilla escaped from the Dallas Zoo and attacked several people before being shot and killed also. They are wild animals and at some point their will to escape and roam takes over. If wild animals are to be in a zoo they need to be in cages and not in their “natural habitat” types of exhibits with nothing more than high walls and a trench keeping them contained.

— Posted by Lori
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83.
December 26th,
2007
3:43 pm

“I can’t believe the tiger was shot dead rather than being shot with a tranquilizer gun…” -Valerie Kennedy

So the police should have waited, watching the tiger maul someone while they call for someone with a tranquilizer gun to come? Sure a tranquilizer would be the ideal thing, but when it comes to protecting human life, the human comes before a tiger… every time.

-Jon

— Posted by Jon
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84.
December 26th,
2007
3:45 pm

just an afterthought, but this was an animal held captive in a Zoo. The Zoo has a strict schedule for food and water and such, which leads me to ask the question, if not out of revenge then why would an animal that is being fed regularly attack 3 seperate people unprovoked? Hrmmm……

— Posted by Brian
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85.
December 26th,
2007
3:46 pm

Am I the only person that believes the killing of the endangered cat was wrong? I understand the tragedy and the the horror but this noble beast was doing what cats have done since time began. people that place them in captivity as a sideshow deserve the blame. We should now feel better that the wild animal is dead and the human is once again supreme?

— Posted by Hal
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86.
December 26th,
2007
3:47 pm

God bless the tiger, may she rest in peace,
God bless all those whose lives were robbed and/or
left less trusting of ‘things that go bump
in the night’, or things that go bump anytime
at all, no matter who wills it, no matter who
calls.
God bless those who read and respond to news
such as this, that one day they may find finality
to pray to the heavens above, that anything that
happens, tigers or no, could/would/should be
received in the given name of Love…regardless
of all who aught not be caught hanging out in
the robes of holier than thou preachers of
conscience or arbiters of fate, “tiger, tiger
in the night…”, give us wisdom pause to see
thee as thou art, tooth and claw, majestic tail,
and piercing eye so bright, immersed in fur
so rich in color as to tempt us all to praise
the ‘All’.

— Posted by bill burks
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87.
December 26th,
2007
3:48 pm

Why should the tiger be KILLED for being a tiger (trapped and caged by human whim)and then when the tiger does what a tiger does… everyone is shocked. I don’t belittle the horror of what happened to the zoo guests but how about some reality here.

— Posted by Jane
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88.
December 26th,
2007
3:53 pm

I have been to this zoo so many times– was a card carrying member when my sons were little too. I can’t see how in the world any tiger could get beyond the water moat and up the wall, no matter if it felt taunted- or hungry- or curious- or predatory, or not. No amount of “taunting,” teasing, or playful conversation could have possibly enabled the cat to escape from that deep yard– it wouldn’t be physically possible. However– the cat’s yard area leads toward an indoor lion house, where visitors can watch feedings through thick glass windows. The trainers, feeders, & cleaners come and go through the same doors the cats use, and I would bet that’s how this tiger got loose. Was it human error, did the cat break the door, or did the locks and alarms malfunction?

— Posted by Alameda mom
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89.
December 26th,
2007
3:55 pm

The only zoo I like is the San Diego Wild Animal Park, where animals roam freely on acres and acres of grounds similar to their natural habitats.

— Posted by SanDiegoGirl
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90.
December 26th,
2007
3:57 pm

Everyone needs to stop suggesting the men taunted the tiger. The tiger attacked the two men in the cafe while they were eating there — clear across the zoo from the tiger enclosure. The cafe is not visible from where the tigers are kept. (Look at a map of the zoo.) The men did not run all the way from the tiger enclosure to the cafe. And to suggest that the tiger saw the men while she was in the enclosure, then stalked the men all the way to the cafe is just ridiculous. The men did nothing to provoke the attack — please stop suggesting otherwise.

The men had every right to be in the cafe 15 minutes after the zoo closed — the cafe and other concessions are open for one hour after the zoo closes. These areas of the zoo were full of people at the same time. The zoo is open on Christmas Day, just like movie theatres and many restaurants. These men were not “up to no good” and were not doing anything they shouldn’t have been doing.

It never ceases to amaze me how people desperately try to justify a tragedy by blaming the victim.

— Posted by Kevin
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91.
December 26th,
2007
3:59 pm

#69. Larkspur, unfortunately and typically enough, cable news media at least is reporting all variety of erroneous and completely speculative details.

I’m confident that the investigation of the entire tiger exhibit will reveal how and where Tatiana gained freedom from her enclosure. Certainly a 350 lb tiger running and taking off to leap across a 15 foot dry moat would leave evidence in the earth at her takeoff and landing points. In addition, for a 350 lb tiger to scale a 20 ft vertical concrete wall seems preposterous on its face.

In the event Tatiana possessed super powers, evidence of her ‘climbing’ that vertical wall will be present. We only need to be patient and wait for the physical findings of the investigators.

Let the evidence lead you to the answers as opposed to wildly speculating on the basis of notions that do not have any basis in reality or possibility.

— Posted by Heli
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92.
December 26th,
2007
4:00 pm

you do not need zoos to protect the animals.
leave them in their nautral habitat and protect them from their poachers so we can take the zoos out of the picture where they do not belong.
Its sad we hold them captive in animal cells.
they belong in their nautural habitat

— Posted by bry
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93.
December 26th,
2007
4:05 pm

“but when it comes to protecting human life, the human comes before a tiger… every time.”

Siberian Tiger population: 400 to 500
Human population: 6,000,000,000

I’m just saying.

— Posted by It should have been you.
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94.
December 26th,
2007
4:07 pm

The zoo not only lost a tiger, but will lose a lot of money too. The zoo’s services, animals and the three people who were hurt and their families will be greatly impacted. As for tranquilizer darts, if the tiger was chewing on me/a child/person, I’d want it down ASAP instead of a few minutes later when the drug took affect. The police made the right call dropping the cat once it resumed its’ attack. As for provoking the Tiger, it attacked the one 150 feett away & the other two quite a ways away from the cage. I’m pretty sure the animal didn’t make a grudge list, find a way to escape and then go find them to kick their butts and get even. It got loose, just like people’s dogs, and did what its’instinct was programmed to do. Just like any animal does whether a dog or tiger.

— Posted by ted Cory
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95.
December 26th,
2007
4:08 pm

Trish, I like your comments. They are, to me, accurate than many. I also agree with comments to the effect that the two persons near the cafe were possibly running away when attacked. From reading I have done over the years, Tigers (actually most large cats) only kill for two reasons; when they are hungry and when they (or their cubs) feel threatened. This would make me wonder if something made this animal feel threatened. It appears it did not kill from hunger, since if did not (according to the news report) stop to feed. It also would appear it “targeted” the three particular persons. Again making it seem there was fear or protective instincts involved in the Tiger’s actions. It is a shame there were human injuries and loss of life. I have viewed the picture showing the open padlock on the enclosure. This could make one wonder if someone removed the padlock allowing the cage to open? If this be the case then whoever removed the padlock should be held accountable, as well as the person who left the padlock open. The loss of the Tiger is sad, too, since there are so few left in the wild. I recently read an article about how they are being killed in their natural wild, because some humans to make costumes from their skins. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20 05/09/23/wtiger23.xml
The Lion may be called the “king of beasts”, but the Tiger is the most regal.

— Posted by Frank
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96.
December 26th,
2007
4:10 pm

I was at this zoo about 1970 and they kept no water in the moats, so the big cats would sometimes be at the bottom of the moat - there were stairs from their enclosure to the moat’s bottom - enjoying the coolness I presume. I looked into a moat one time - after closing time on my way to the exit - and saw a big tiger like this one looking back at me with that focus house cats get when prey ventures too close. That moat wall is 20′ high and, proportionally, my house cats can easily scale that height (I’ve seen one jump to the top of an interior door from a sitting position). Fearing that I might end up featured in a bizarre headline like this one, I executed a quick retreat and exited the zoo. I think a big cat can jump 15 feet horizontally or 20 feet vertically - if motivated - and have often wondered why those who build zoos think otherwise.

— Posted by Jay Hendon
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97.
December 26th,
2007
4:12 pm

I’m not familiar with tiger instincts but do they kill their prey and leave? Don’t they eat it or take it away somewhere for later? I didn’t think wild animals killed for any other reason except to eat or defend themselves. Someone enlighten me…

— Posted by Richard
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98.
December 26th,
2007
4:15 pm

The blameable party here is the San Francisco Zoo.

It was responsible to keep its tigers safe, and to keep the public safe from the tigers.

It failed in both, and the tragic deaths of a young man and a superb example of an endangered species are the result of that failure.

— Posted by Disgusted with the SF Zoo
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99.
December 26th,
2007
4:15 pm

The tiger did what tigers do attack without reason, what everyone should look at is how did the tiger get out in the 1st place. Also this was the 2nd attack by this animal, after the 1st attack the tiger should of been returned to the wild or somthing, its obvious the animal wants to be free….

— Posted by Mrs Missy
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100.
December 26th,
2007
4:16 pm

My moody house-cats, whom I love dearly, will, in a mood, turn on me in a Jekyl-Hyde fit & claw & bite me. Otherwise, they are cuddly & loving.
One who thinks a wild animal like a tiger can be tamed is a fool.
I cringed when I heard they had to kill the tiger, but I do understand. However, if it proves out that the zoo visitors were harrassing the tiger, let the punishment fit.
We humans, as caretakers of our world, MUST try any way we can to correct the havoc we have wreaked on the environment, including the decimation of entire breeds of animals. That, unfortunately, includes raising animals in captivity. Otherwise, the only way our decendants will ever see some animals is in pictures. We have a responsibility to all future generations to do the very best we can to enhance the survival of every living kind of creature, whether predator or prey.
Our primary obligation remains to leave to our offspring a world better than the one left to us.

— Posted by karen harris
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101.
December 26th,
2007
4:18 pm

“I’m a zookeeper, though I won’t disclose where…”

That’s nice, but I’m a Rancher & comprehend animal husbandry very well. I know that aggression can be bred into, or out of, any species if enough care & thought is put into the task.

Also, I’ve lived in feral mountain lion, bobcat, coyote & black bear country, most of my life. With that, perhaps I, more than you, understand both domesticated & wild animal behavior, at a level you’ve never experienced.

For the most part, wild carnivores are reasonable creatures, and are tolerated by most Ranchers. Even if at the expense of a few lost herd animals each year. We understand that carnivores must eat to survive & even haul our natural kills (stock killed by lightning, disease & autos) to areas we know predators live.

However, on occasion, an overly aggressive predator (We call them a bad seed. Just like an overly aggressive human) will begin to show uncalled for aggression towards humans, & may begin to kill stock & wildlife blindly, well over & above it’s natural needs. In that case, there is no choice, that animal must be put down. This is done for two reasons. One, to stop the waste of life this animal is causing. And second, to prevent that animal from further passing along an overly aggressive blood line.

“…I have to admit that I find the human death and the tiger death equally unfortunate… ”

I find it very disturbing that any human being could equate the loss of an animal life, with the loss of a human being. Your statement is very telling of your mindset. And frighteningly sociopath as well.

— Posted by Tex
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102.
December 26th,
2007
4:20 pm

Human life is more precious than a tiger’s, so dig the moat deeper, build the walls higher, do whatever needs to be done so that this can never happen again. All zoos throughout the world should learn from this most unfortunate and horrible tragedy!

— Posted by Tiger lover
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103.
December 26th,
2007
4:24 pm

What an awful tragedy; a person killed and Tatiana killed as well. Tatiana obviously was a methodical thinker to escape and the zoo should have taken steps to prevent that from happening. What people need to remember is that Tatiana was a wild animal and tigers are awesome unpredictable cats. They are predators and we represent prey. Tatiana is not to blame and I am sad that they killed her. Why could they not have tranquilized her and returned her to a secure area? It is a zoo. They must have had tranquilizer guns there. It does not make sense to me that we try to save the tiger population yet kill one when they act naturally in a given situation.

— Posted by Sheila
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104.
December 26th,
2007
4:26 pm

It was really sad,that there was a loss of life and some injuries due to the tiger attack but please do understand a tiger is a wild animal and its behaviour is very natural, we have brought it to our enviroment so why blame it on the tiger. It being shot dead is totally unnessary. I belive the zoo was totally unprepared for this kind of eventuality. An animal lover.

— Posted by vijay
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105.
December 26th,
2007
4:26 pm

So much of this is opinion thrown around by people who know so very little about tiger behavior, and talk about conjecture as if it was fact. There’s a book coming out in mid 2008 I would suggest to everyone so you can see the true plight of these beasts, including information about how they live in captivity. http://www.williamandrew.com/title.php?id=469

— Posted by The Monday Nut
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106.
December 26th,
2007
4:29 pm

This blog may be making people assume that the tiger attacks happened inside the cafe. The tiger did not attack the two surviving victims INSIDE the cafe, they were both outside the cafe. ALL of the young men were from San Jose, *suggesting* (but not confirming) that the two surviving brothers and the may have all known each other.

I’m going to step beyond the conversation about whether zoos should exist, how they should look, and what sort of animals should be contained in Zoos. What this story shows is that all