New Hampshire is an EXACT mirror image of Idaho.

Colorado and Wyoming are also alarmingly similar.

WHAT? Are you fucking kidding? Do not insult the nation's best state-shape, Idaho!!! Look, Montana's border makes the PROFILE of a FACE looking down onto the Boise regions! Splendid! Whereas NH looks like a chip of waste that fell to the floor when Idaho was being carved.

You have a strange definition of "exact".

At any rate, both states are notorious for harboring all manner of libertarian nutters, right?

Every other town in northern Boise had a Ron Paul sign in the yard when I went to visit a few weeks ago.

To its credit, New Hampshire is notorious for 69ing Vermont and harboring geriatric conservative nutters.

Also, that giant, Boise-obsessed peeping tom face is formed by a mountain range, isn't it?

I think Washington, Oregon, and Idaho are all incredibly beautiful states...but man, there is some weird shit going on in all of those places. I mean, screw "Wisconsin Death Trip" or whatever...someone needs to properly document the creepy shit that marks eastern Washington and eastern and southern Oregon...and, uh, well, probably most of Idaho.

What an absurdly vague, unfair post by me. But seriously, I get the feeling that there is all manner of crazy stuff going on in those places that people usually reserve for their stereotypes of West Virginia or something.

Eastern Washington is nice to visit, but hell no I wouldn't want to live there. The few weeks I spent in Yakima were more than enough for me. It is crazy out there.

Dueds yeah, Montana/Idaho/Utah/Wyoming are psychotic fucking states.

I don't even talk about Coeur d'Alene. We took road trips to Montana a lot when I was a kid. We'd stop in CdA to get gas and my mom (white) would be the only one allowed out of the car while the rest of us (black) stayed inside.

Actually, everyone I've met in Montana is v. nice, although it may be worth mentioning that I've only been in the western part of the state.

I don't even *wanna* talk about coeur d'Alene....

Dueds yeah, Montana/Idaho/Utah/Wyoming are psychotic fucking states.

Hah!!! Okay, I feel semi-vindicated in my weird stab at geographical judge-mentalism, then.

Is coeur d'Alene just some extraordinarily beautiful place which also just happens to be a haven for crazed survivalist/race-war fantasy types? Because that's my impression.

^^^that

I have to give the crazed survalist/race-war-fantasy types credit for their taste in scenery.

Actually, if anything I've heard about the place is true, the townies really wish the cs/rwf types would fuck off.

xposts ok, then.

I've mentioned this book at least a couple of times on ILX before, but that's a tribute to both how well it's written as well as how much it blew my mind-- it's basically about crazy Oregon stuff-- Strange Piece of Paradise: A Return to the American West to Investigate My Attempted Murder-- and Solve the Riddle of Myself by Terri Jentz. Wow.

Actually, if anything I've heard about the place is true, the townies really wish the cs/rwf types would fuck off.

Yeah, I don't have a hard time believing that to be the case.

I live in eastern WA and I don't think it's really all that crazy - I've been in way crazier places. It's kind of bland, maybe a bit methy (though I don't think any worse than western WA), a bit rural, etc., but not like Deliverance or anything. Coeur D'Alene never seems that bad either - everyone I know there moved from somewhere else cause it's beautiful, not crazy expensive, economy is good, close to natural stuff, and so on. Everyone seems really bitter when you bring up the crazy racists, who they're all eager to tell you have moved away - to central PA if I remember correctly.

Idaho in general is pretty libertarian and conservative but it seriously doesn't deserve the reputation that it has. People I know in rural-ass Upper Michigan hear me mention living near Idaho and they freak out, like it's an insane shithole with armed borders or something. The UP has way more fucked up shit than I've ever seen in Idaho, not even close. Both are super beautiful though, but I gotta say that Idaho might win out.

I'm not saying the area is some enlightened bastion of diversity, solitude and wonder but really, it's not that scary or anything. I've only lived here for like a year though, and in kind of a big liberal / non-native bubble. Washington has had a lot of serial killers though.

I got propositioned in Montana.

And I should say, I don't want to live here forever or anything, but that's due to being in a small-ish town than any issues with the people / state / region.

Intrsting. Cool!

Washington has had a lot of serial killers though.

Yeah, what's up with that?? I get the same impression regarding parts of upstate NY and also the Florida panhandle.

I got propositioned in Montana.

Like, a marriage proposition? Or some random guy wanting to trade tugjobs?

montana looking guy old enough to be my dad in rusty pickup truck rolling up next to me and asking "you don't uh, do things for money, do you?" at 2am one snowy night.

Yikes.

I don't know what's up with the serial killers - I remember reading about a bar in Bellingham (last WA town before you hit Vancouver) that had Ted Bundy, John Allen Muhammed, and a couple of other notorious serial killers as regulars at some point in past. The theory was that they drifted around the country, hit the top left corner and hung out for a while before going back. Like if you think about going to Alaska or something but don't have the ambition, you end up in Washington and decide to kill people there instead.

This article has a nice chart with a nice chart of various NW area serial killers.

maybe a bit methy (though I don't think any worse than western WA)

I think the east is just more noticeably methy, because it isn't as easy to avoid the methiness if you want to.

I know someone who knows someone who knew Gary Ridgeway, if I'm not mistaken. (yeah)

xposts

Yeah, wow. I guess that theory makes sense to a degree, and could even explain the Florida thing. But, I wonder then, why the dearth of serial killer activity in say, Maine?

I got propositioned in Montana.

-- gr8080, Friday, January 25, 2008 11:20 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I told you Montanans were friendly!

The thing about all of those dudes having haunted the same bar at some point is just crazy, though. Wow.

I think the east is just more noticeably methy, because it isn't as easy to avoid the methiness if you want to.

This is probably true - I only really spend time in Seattle, Olympia, the and whatever shiny suburbs I need to pass through when I'm on the west side. But every episode of COPS from rural King or Pierce county seems to be all about meth.

Oh, it's seeping into the suburbs, too. I'm in Everett and I know tons of people who have either gotten on or off of meth. I don't have any problem shutting the former category out of my life entirely, and find the latter to generally be good people, if a bit quirky in ways that are all too predictable. But there are enough people who aren't affected by the methiness of the town, that the tweakers just kind of blend in unless you look for them or have a problem close to home. It's not nearly as depressing to just be around there in the same way that Yakima (or Granite Falls, for that matter) is.

I'm sure if you wanted to, you could find an army of tweakers right there in Seattle, too. It's just that the more people there are around, the better they blend in.

So what's so bad about Yakima? I've never been there yet. Not that I really have plans to, but I'm curious.

methiness, poverty, heat, boredom (not necc. in that order)

I don't think I've heard of even a quarter of the guys mentioned in the article that joygoat linked to, but one of the best true crime books that I've ever read was Jack Olsen's Charmer: The True Story of a Ladies' Man and his Victims.

I don't know if the book's subject qualifies as such under whatever the going definitions of a serial killer are, but that book, wow...(and the murders all took place in Bellvue, WA). The book paints a fascinating portrait of the eighties nightclub culture at the time, where the guy happened to have spent a lot of his time haunting-- there are all kinds of crazy details like about how people would communicate interest in each other by ordering trendy drinks for other parties...like a guy would order a "sex on the beach" for some woman across the bar, and if she were interested in him, she would signal back by ordering a "cocksucker", or some other double-entendre coctail.

I guess that's why the book made such an impression on me. One could take away all of the grisly details, and still be left with a fascinating picture of what it was like to be living in that particular place and time. The main reason that the true crime genre manages to seduce me is because, aside from any psychological studies of the perpetrators of the crimes, the best authors manage to evoke exceptionally vivid portraits of particular cultural milieus.

joygoat, where are you going to college?

I'm not going to college - my wife is a professor at a rather large state university on the east side. You can probably guess which one.

Aw, Central.

How's Ellensburg working out for you?

I don't know, Ellensburg is pretty far west of me - the wife's at WSU.

(jo3ks, bruv)

No problem. Based on people's concept of four hours from Seattle being HOLY CRAP WE'RE SO FAR EAST it actually wouldn't have surprised me.

Also, this is going to be funny to some random New Hampshireite tommorrow wondering where the battle of the Live Free Or Die states ended up going.

I keep meaning to go out to Pullman to visit my friend there, but either I don't have the time or the passes are frozen shut.

You're really not missing much. At all.

I don't care about seeing the town, I care about seeing my friend.

Every other town in northern Boise had a Ron Paul sign in the yard when I went to visit a few weeks ago.

-- Abbott, Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:08 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

I had to read this three times before I saw the word wasn't sing but sign :-/

Deck the lawns with signs of Ron Paul
Fa la la la la, la la la la

serial killer tangents & true crime readers: CREEEEEEEPY.

i am pro new hampshire. they have the best slogan on their license plate: "live free or die." what else comes close to THAT??

there's also the awesome new hampshire liquor stores with cheap booze.

Once upon a time, I'd say that culturally, New Hampshire = Alaska, and San Juan Islands, WA = Vermont. I'd still stick to the latter, but the former isn't really that true anymore. New Hampshire is def. more liberal now, and Alaska is sitting there looking at itself wondering what the fuck went wrong.

Everyone I've ever met from Alaska has been batshit crazy.

Like this one dude who bragged about shooting someone who tried to steal his airplane.

I am from the nostril of Montana (Bitterroot Valley)

You know what's great about the San Juans? MORAN state park!

A lot of my friends here are originally from Alaska, either Anchorage or Fairbanks, although they would say the same thing as you, Rev.

FWIW, Rev., southern Idaho isn't like that...I mean, they're ignorant, but not hateful.

Montana seems kind of like this idyllic, awesome place to me. I have this romance for it I used to have for Kentucky. Are either of these places actually worth living in?

serial killer tangents & true crime readers: CREEEEEEEPY.

I don't think so. I don't belong to the true crime book-of-the-month club or anything...as I was trying to say upthread, some of those books have made a big impression on me b/c it seems like the actual crimes almost function as an excuse for the authors to paint interesting portraits of what it's like to live in a certain time and place. For me they essentially amount to portraits of America that I wouldn't otherwise know about.

I mean, if you think that anyone who's ever gotten sucked into one of those A&E crime shows (or any of the top-rated Law and Order-type series, for that matter) are creepy, then, I really don't know what to say.

That would imply that anyone who decides to pursue a career as a forensic pathologist, or who has ever been drawn into a documentary about Jonestown or something is... CREEPY.

I've only ever visited Montana, but it seems totally beautiful. I would live there.

Bozeman seems like one of those gently hip and bonkers towns with the still smalltown vibe I love so much.

FWIW, Rev., southern Idaho isn't like that...I mean, they're ignorant, but not hateful.

-- Abbott, Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:48 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Yeah, I know. No judgment passed on southern Idahoans. fwiw, I've never been there.

I have only good things to say about Montana and Montanans, btw.

There's a whole giant thread about anticipating Zodiac on this board! True Crimers, all of ye!

It is really hard now living 1,300 miles away from Idaho and telling people, yeah, I'm from Idaho, state pride & shit. Esp to black people; I completely forget it has the racist tag and that is the part of Idaho 800 miles from where I lived. (Big state!) So then I have to be like, "Oh..fuck...it's not like that...I mean I'm not like that."

Which of course they know.

I liked Missoula more than Bozeman, for whatever that's worth. Butte has its own crazy beauty going on, but it seems like it would be less practical to live there, overall.

xpost

Yeah...I don't know you personally, but nonetheless it would be something of a struggle to imagine you coming off as some flaming racist

Yeah, funniest thing about the impetus of this thread...

New Hampshire could wedge itself well up the Idaho panhandle and be subsumed completely without touching south Idaho..I think.

Idaho is only slightly smaller in height than California.

Hahaha yes it is awesome esp bcz one of my friends here is ex-NMSU football player and so all his friends I've met were or are college football players. And I forget that, unlike most of the people in the world, of COURSE WAC players are going to know Boise! So I'll say "So do you know Boise?" And they're all "KNOW BOISE!!! That fucking town!" "Oh, yeah smurf turf and all," and then ribbing about lol am I racist bcz why would I be at Tim's house if I was?

Ha, a few years back I had a (white) friend extolling the virtues of Coeur d'Alene to me, wanting me to go camping out there with him. I was just kind of like I'm sure it's beautiful and all but I'm not going there because wtf it's fucking Coeur d'Alene and I have colored skin wtf.

Has anyone been to this weird human maze up near Glacier Park in Montana that exists for seemingly no reason in the middle of nowhere? I got stuck in there for hours once.

FWIW England (country) is 50,346 sq miles; New Hampshire is only 9351; and Idaho is 83,574 square miles. It has a population density of like 1.2 people per square mile or so (averaged out).

Dude a maze for humans or made of humans?

for humans

There were like four of those in southern Idaho (counties bordering Montana)! Not just corn mazes (tons of those), but ones up all year long, off-roud attractions.

Yeah, this was the latter category. They have corn mazes here in WA.

It's been eons since I spent any time in Montana. Beautiful place. I wanted to get the fuck out as soon as possible (high school graduation).

I can understand not wanting to live there, but what a place to visit!

http://i25.tinypic.com/1zxmucm.jpghttp://i30.tinypic.com/11io5jk.jpg

IDAHO PREGGERS WITH NEW HAMPSHIRE, UK WATCHES

(All to scale)

Looks kind of like UK did the knocking up.

Well, New England ya know

My uncle lives in Riggins, on the Salmon River. If all goes well there may be a Crump family reunion there in 2009. I haven't been there in 35 years, but I still remember how gorgeous it is.

I like this thread.

they dont look that much alike

shhhh!

obd

I still like this thread. It gave me an excuse to talk about Idaho and Montana and Eastern Washington. I like talking about these places.

Not a jdchurchill thread?

The Idaho face looks like Ted Kennedy in profile.

24 years ago today I was in Idaho.

While back home the lights went on at Wrigley Field.

Once when I was driving through NH with a friend, the friend asked me "Did the people who designed the borders of states deliberately put a face in all of them?" I was like "...???waht???" And she says "look, on the signs --"

The roadsigns displayed outlines of the man in the mountain.

― Ol Bertie Dastard

Same thing happened in Washington. My little sister asked why does this state look like a head? My dad and I were like what? She points to the roadsign and says see? The border of Washington looks like a head. And then, as tactfully as we could, explained that the state was named for George Washington…

It is true in the south though. Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, Louisiana… all have an outline of the state on their state highway markers. Some places where you get State Highway 440 or something, Arkansas almost looks Montana-sized as it tries to hold in all those numbers. Was surprised to go to Iowa the first time and just see the highway numbers surrounded by a big circle, like speed limit signs in Metric countries.

ok but your sister wasn't 22 yrs old at the time

http://i48.tinypic.com/2pyyxl5.jpg

Horn of africa

tee hee

Djibouti

tee hee

yansh of africa

ok but your sister wasn't 22 yrs old at the time

no she wasn't, but…

When I first moved to Minneapolis (and she was a freshman at college), I told her how there was a bus stop near my apartment. The No. 7 went from Mall of America all the way to Coon Rapids or wherever the fuck, and that made getting around town a lot easier. She asked how often does the bus come by? and I say, oh, I dunno, once every ten minutes?

And her reply was Wow, that must be a really fast bus!

looool