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Daniel Clowes

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I think he may be my favorite comic book artist. I've read Ghost World three times and think it's the best thing I've read about teenage life since Catcher in the Rye. (I know that's such a stupid, cliched comparison, but this time it's RIGHT, dammit) I just love the way it looks, the way Enid and Rebecca talk, and the whole low-key existential anguish of it all. (I loved the movie too, but that's another thread.) I thought David Boring started brilliantly, bogged down a little in the middle, but had a great ending. Anyone else?

― Justyn Dillingham, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought the middle episode of David Boring was one of the best comics I've ever read.

The latest issue of Eightball is complete genius... loads of vaguely interconnected stories set in some American small town. The best bit is when a child's toy comes alive as Blue Bunny, an anthropormophic rabbit fresh out of jail, and starts going around swearing at people and looking for a "suck job" because he has been "living off state pussy for the last three months".

I've never quite been bitten by Ghostworld. However I do like "Like A Velvet Glove Cast In Iron".

― DV, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There's a new Eightball? Excellent! I may have to brave Comics Showcase for the first time since I moved back here.

― Tom, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It's a few weeks old, mind.

― DV, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

where can you get it? i.e. is it available off the modern internet?

― nickie, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I buy Eightball in shops.

The Fantagraphics website might sell it. If they have a website.

― DV, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

David Boring was much better when I read in one sitting. I liked Like a Velvet Glove Cast In Iron best.

― jel --, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan Clowes is ace. I have swapped e-mails with him when I interveiwed him for City Life and I confess I felt all fluttery and kind of star struck while opeing them and reading the words he wrote FOR ME! Ghost world rocks, the film rocks, the enid dolls rock, david boring and like a velvet glove and dan pussey and the poster for Todd Solondz's Happiness ROCK!

I hope you're all clear about that.

Now...

Dan Clowes vs Chris Ware FITE!

does anybody have anything to say on the subject of David Lapham? 'Stray Bullets', 'Murder me Dead' FITE!

― misterjones, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've never read him but after seeing the movie I'm very interested. My favourite series is Gunsmith Cats by Kenichi Sonoda. Now I don't know anything about anime/manga (I don't even know the difference between them) but back when I was about 12 and into X-Men I saw this really cool cover in the shop and ever since...girls, guns and grenades oh yes. I wanted so badly to be Minnie-May.

― Evangeline, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I love how the black parts look on glossy paper. He seems to have a feel for achieving some kind of tactile richness that other artists are blind to. I like how scenes with no action, just people talking, go from frame to frame with little shifts in details like characters' postures. It's like a storyboard with nuances that could never be captured on film. I really missed seeing more Enid and Rebecca scenes in the Ghost World movie, but I doubt if they would have gotten it right if they tried. The Rebecca actress was too mopey and angsty.

― Curt, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ghost world is his rightful success because it's the only ongoing story where he was able to keep his contempt for humanity and juvenile obsession with 'heh heh freaks and weirdos!' in check enough for his brilliant observational gift to shine through. velvet glove is terrible, just terrible crap, and david boring is okay but really just velvet glove for twenty year olds instead of fifteen year olds isn't it? dan pussey was never even interesting, always my least favorite part of a new eightball, and lloyd whats- his-name not much better. i'm having a hard time thinking of favorite back-up stories but it goes without saying that nature boy, ugly girls, art school confidential, and squirrel girl & candy- pants are still his best, along with the still-underrated-even-in-massive-rating caricature which should be out in paperback soon. the new issue is okay (blue bunny is the worst part, tom you won't like it either) but he's ripping off chris ware now and i can't fucking stand chris ware, the new optic nerve was lots lots better. i've hated how his art looked since ghost world ended, it's so clinical and jackoff-y precise it's almost unreadable, why does every mildly popular indie comics artist insist on working in this cold ugly style?

― ethan, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

johansson was much much better than birch in the film. oh also i should say clowes is probably my favorite comic creator ever too so take my criticisms of his work from that point and not someone who hasn't read every issue ten times.

― ethan, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Because you've read them 15 times instead?

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ned please re-read that sentence. although i probably have read them all fifteen and not ten.

― ethan, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hurrah! We're all happy! :-)

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I went in Forbidden Planet, Gosh and Comics Showcase. I deduce that the new Eightball isn't out here yet. Maybe I should just hace asked the guy at the counter.

― jel --, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

GROUP HUG

― ethan, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Art School Confidential is the only thing of his I can read repeatedly, because it's a) written about my ex-school (and still 100% true, 20 years later), and b) funny without being insanely depressing, like his other work. Ethan's right: "indie" being synonymous with "existentially depressing" in the comix world is a drag.

― matthew m., Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

twenty years later???

― ethan, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

makes sense to me, clowes isn't a young guy.

― fritz, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Erm, yeah... Clowes did ASC when he was at Pratt, and that was in the early 80s.

― matthew m., Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't have orgy bound on hand to check for sure but i'm almost positive the copyright on that is ninety something since it was first published in eightball and all, unless you mean he just concieved it when he was still there or something.

― ethan, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It was actually first published in Static Fish, which is Pratt's comix newspaper. It may not have been released to the public until later, though.

― matthew m., Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yes but i am almost entirely sure that was in an earlier form though. oh and also; check your email!!

― ethan, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I went in Forbidden Planet, Gosh and Comics Showcase. I deduce that the new Eightball isn't out here yet. Maybe I should just hace asked the guy at the counter.

it came out here (dublin) over a month ago. I suspect the copies in the shops you mention have been snatched up by the REAL fans.

― DV, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My favorite of his is still velvet glove, but I think it has something to do with a love of non sequitur in me that I can't do away with, prob. stemming from a frustratingly persistant inability to relate to people (ha ha no I am not autistic fuck you, and why, by the way, is this typically the definition of evil in pop culture? Like I'm bad just because I have a hard time understanding where you're coming from? Jesus.).

― Dan i, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

there are things i like and don't like abt clowes.
it's been a long time since i read velvet glove but i would say i probably prefer it to ghost world...
anyway what i really wanted to say is there was this unbelievably abysmal comic drawing guy in Auckland i think his name was andy conlan and he completely ripped off clowes, but i can't even describe how wrong and half-assed and fucked up and sexist and bad in every single way this guy was; it was hard to avoid his cartoons they were in all these places....maryann, or duckling, do you know the guy i mean? yech!
put me off clowes quite alot

― elizabeth anne marjorie, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Ghost World movie is his career peak, I think--and curious that he never mentions Enid's last name in it. (It's Coleslaw. Enid Coleslaw = Daniel Clowes.) I liked Eightball very much when I was 20, and have steadily soured on it since (though I still think "Li'l Octagon" is one of the funniest things I've ever read, but that's just because I read lots of Harvey comics when I was little). I sort of think he's gotten trapped by his own affectations, and I really want to see him do something very different next.

― Douglas, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

five months pass...
I just read the new 20th Century Eightball collection. There's a lot of throwaway crap in there, but it's worth getting for "Art School Confidential," the Li'l Octagon thing and the Crumb ripoff/tribute "Ugly Girls." Also I'm curious about what he actually looks like, since there's one story with about ten (obviously fake) self-portrayals.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 14 September 2002 23:56 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.pastis.org/jade/avril/clowes1.jpg

― ron (ron), Sunday, 15 September 2002 00:01 (twenty-three years ago)

aww cute comic geek
hey liz that strumming teeth guy? yeah he sucks

― ducklingmonster, Sunday, 15 September 2002 02:41 (twenty-three years ago)

he actually looks EXACTLY like I pictured him.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 15 September 2002 06:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Question: for those who liked David Boring, why? Ghost World, in comic and movie form (and the slightly different screenplay form), was brilliant. The latest issue of Eightball is also top-notch. But David Boring was frankly a let down - not nearly as rich as GW. Is there something I'm missing?

Like a Velvet Glove... was okay - an exercise in weirdness, but not much more than that. Art School Confidential is actually being made into a movie, possibly with Drew Barrymore as the star (?!).

― Ernest P., Monday, 16 September 2002 12:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Ernest P. - David Boring is law, you are crime. the middle episode of it in particular is one of the best issues of any comic ever.

when I saw popular band the Chalets recently and was very pleased that they had stills from David Boring as a slideshow. it was like they were a band who leaped fully formed from my imagination.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 16 September 2002 13:07 (twenty-three years ago)

velvet glove is like ed the happy clown: enfeebled, underrealized phantasmagoria's who promise great revelations and end up doing little more than jerking the reader around. which may well have been the point from the beginning, but i don't think so. (also: juvenile nihilism [is there any other kind?], spencers gifts scatology [brown does trump clowes in this regard, re. the-man-who-can't-stop-shitting], feeble attempts at satire.) brown and clowes are both artists who have fans who still support the earliest phases of their careers; i can't see why: without exception they're both artists who have improved immesurably with age, restraint, and focus.

david boring, however...like name, like nature. sorry dv.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 September 2002 13:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think Brown has ever done anything else even HALF as gd as 'Ed The Happy Clown' - it really felt like he was making that strip up as he went along, painting himself into tight corners that he had to IMPROV his way out of. Plus Ed was actually laugh-out-loud funny, whereas his subsequent work seems more 'mature', considered, and all a bit too pinched and careful. I blame that tosser Seth.

And I'm w/ DV on 'David Boring', which for me worked as a brilliant change-of-pace from 'Ghost World'...

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 16 September 2002 14:10 (twenty-three years ago)

*SPOILERS*

Yes, but what exactly do you admire about David Boring? I liked GW for many reasons - the way Enid and Becky observe and criticize everything, Enid's self-loathing and desire to escape, the friendship between Enid and Becky slowly dissolving, Enid's reluctance to grow up, and details, details, details. The way Enid comments on the old man buying pathetic flowers for his wife or two ugly people in love. The way Enid pretends to be "having a religious experience" at Dinosaurland, when she's clearly outgrown its fun. It's just full of rich, memorable details. And its themes and the manner in which Clowes explores them ring true to me.

It seemed to me like David Boring was about a mundane life, exploring what fueled this guy's desire. And it turned out to be his cousin's big butt. I am not dismissing David Boring - I am just curious about what themes and such I might have missed, and your opinions regarding what stands out about it.

― Ernest P., Monday, 16 September 2002 15:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Erm I'm not v. big on 'themes' Ernest, and I haven't read 'David Boring' since it came out - but I remember liking v. much the fact that I couldn't tell WHAT (if anything) was going to happen next in the comic, while at the same time feeling that Clowes was in complete control of his material/structure. I liked the way that the strip seemed to play off Salinger-style angst against noir mystery, and I liked the way that Clowes used superhero comics to turn the whole generic concept of 'secret identities' into a metaphor for parental/emotional lack (and yes, that's something it has in common w/ 'Acme Comics Library').

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 16 September 2002 15:30 (twenty-three years ago)

i just love dave sim´s cerebus comics. 25 years of madness and still no end in sight! and there are others too (asides from chris ware): my new york diary - julie doucet, complete yummy fur - chester brown, jim woodring´s frank is also remarkable, but the hottest thing of the moment would be shane simmons´longshot comics!

― michael zZzzz, Tuesday, 17 September 2002 10:28 (twenty-three years ago)

haha i said this in another thread but the only reason i love adrian tomine is because hes the only big name comics dude who wont ever do a story about superhero books representing bullshit childhood father issues, the only redeeming factor of the almost completely worthless david boring is that at least its not acme novelty library

― simon trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 10:40 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...
http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/artschoolconfidential/

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 26 February 2006 05:49 (nineteen years ago)

Haha strangely that preview makes it look like it's gonna be a "wacky Van Wilder" kind of movie. I have high hopes!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 26 February 2006 06:29 (nineteen years ago)

i wanna do a short film that just consists of moments in trailers that use the "needle abruptly yanked off the record" sound

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:04 (nineteen years ago)

haha i've often wondered when that needle thing was first used in film

this looks better than i thought it would be.

― lil' flipper (eman), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:12 (nineteen years ago)

haha funny that zwigoff is now known as the "bad santa" director above all else.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:23 (nineteen years ago)

it's probably his best movie!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:34 (nineteen years ago)

which i still haven't seen :(

(better than crumb?)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:38 (nineteen years ago)

which i still haven't seen :(

Fear not, you're not alone. Guess I'll wait until next Xmas...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:38 (nineteen years ago)

it's hard to compare it with crumb for obvious reasons (and since i haven't seen crumb since it came out), so in conclusion i am talking out my ass.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:42 (nineteen years ago)

It's better than Crumb.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 February 2006 03:47 (nineteen years ago)

Pulling the record needle of the projector reel always leads to MADNESS>

― Abbott (Abbott), Monday, 27 February 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

Art School Confidential was actually pretty lame - I saw it this weekend. It actually reminded me of a watered down imitation of one of John Water's recent movies, which of course are watered down versions of older John Water's movies. It was light and predictable and sweet in the beginning but then went really far off course with this whole murder mystery thing. Having gone to art school, I can assure you there are many things about it that are ripe for lampooning but many of the things that they picked up on here were totally predictable and pretty dated in many respects (ex. numerous mentions of beatnik chicks). It was all very sanitized and goofy and square. Watching made me understand how all the punk kids must have felt when they watched the Quincy "punk" episode.

― ianinportland (ianinportland), Monday, 27 February 2006 20:38 (nineteen years ago)

seven years pass...

http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/fantagraphics_announces_the_complete_eightball_1_18/

Fantagraphics Books has announced a massive hardcover two-volume set, complete with slipcase presentation, collecting the first 18 issues of Daniel Clowes' seminal alternative comics titles Eightball.

― fit and working again, Sunday, 15 September 2013 19:37 (twelve years ago)

Man, that's awesome but $95 is awfully steep. Still, great to have this stuff in print again. My favorite comic ever. Every new issue was a huge event.

― Walter Galt, Monday, 16 September 2013 12:02 (twelve years ago)

And it's not complete either *shrug*

― Nhex, Monday, 16 September 2013 12:18 (twelve years ago)

What are they leaving out, that you know this far ahead?

― Billy Bob Thornton in "Slijngaard" (sic), Monday, 16 September 2013 13:31 (twelve years ago)

I have no idea, it mentions in that article that Clowes didn't want to archive certain stories so he deliberately left them out

― Nhex, Monday, 16 September 2013 13:34 (twelve years ago)

Heh, it just annoys me when they call something "The Complete" whatever when its not true

― Nhex, Monday, 16 September 2013 13:35 (twelve years ago)

article says this is complete as i understand it - it's the previous collections where Clowes deliberately left things out.

― woof, Monday, 16 September 2013 13:51 (twelve years ago)

oh, you're right, I may have misunderstood. i was thrown off by the last paragraph a bit

― Nhex, Monday, 16 September 2013 13:55 (twelve years ago)

two years pass...

loved patience

― johnny crunch, Sunday, 27 March 2016 02:52 (nine years ago)

yeah, me too - more than anything he's done in a good long while.

― Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 27 March 2016 03:06 (nine years ago)

its very good

― akm, Sunday, 27 March 2016 03:07 (nine years ago)

http://wunc.org/post/daniel-clowes-aims-hitchcockian-shock-patience#stream/0

Interesting interview re the new book and more

― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 March 2016 17:05 (nine years ago)

he did a signing in berkeley the other week, the turnout was insane, must have been at least 150 people. He gave a really good talk about the creation of this story and this book beforehand.

― akm, Monday, 28 March 2016 17:12 (nine years ago)

also apparently Wilson is being turned into a film, which he has little to do with, although he went to the set and he said it seems good. He was disappointed they didn't wind up making it in Oakland (too expensive and the city was impossible to work with)

― akm, Monday, 28 March 2016 17:13 (nine years ago)

seven months pass...

seems like he had a bit to do with it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2nSI6jx36E

― Number None, Sunday, 13 November 2016 12:32 (nine years ago)

looks good

― johnny crunch, Monday, 14 November 2016 02:48 (nine years ago)

four months pass...

100% concur on Patience feelings above, liked it easily more than anything he's done in years

― Nhex, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:46 (eight years ago)

one year passes...

got Patience out of the library last week - against my better judgment given how little I've enjoyed p much everything he's done post-Ghost World - and... hey this was actually really good? Was glad to see some of the narrative surrealism/weirdness creep back into his work, and also gratified that it wasn't just an exercise in exhausting misanthropy.

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 18:18 (seven years ago)

You didn't like Ice Haven?

― Not with a bang but a MAGA (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 18:32 (seven years ago)

didn't read that one

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 18:34 (seven years ago)

I think Wilson was the last one I read and I found that one deeply irritating

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 18:34 (seven years ago)

Dude, get thee to an Ice Haven. I'd say it's his masterpiece.

― Not with a bang but a MAGA (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 18:42 (seven years ago)

Death Ray is probably my favorite.

― dan selzer, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:03 (seven years ago)

Ice Haven was way better in Eightball than the book

― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:12 (seven years ago)

what changed when it was collected? or was it just better in short bursts as a serial

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:13 (seven years ago)

It was literally just a reconfiguration of panels. The original was a single issue of Eightball which was later reissued as a hardcover of half the height and twice the pagecount. And yeah, I'd agree that it probably read better in its initial format.

― Not with a bang but a MAGA (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:17 (seven years ago)

Don't know why these Fanta dudes always have to go and George Lucas their output.

― Not with a bang but a MAGA (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:18 (seven years ago)

I'm guessing he sold about 10-20x more copies of Ice Haven the nationally distributed book than the eightball edition carried by 1 out of every 5 comic book stores if that.

― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:21 (seven years ago)

It was mostly a rhetorical question (less so wrt Los Bros).

― Not with a bang but a MAGA (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:25 (seven years ago)

yeah ice haven is amazing as an issue of eightball. one of my pet bloviations is that ice haven represents a rare appearance in comics of the 'fragment cycle' form beloved of the German Romantics and perfected in music by Schumann

― cheese is the teacher, ham is the preacher (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 19:37 (seven years ago)

Don't know why these Fanta dudes always have to go and George Lucas their output.

you mean "why these Knopf Doubleday Pantheon Penguin Random House dudes always have to go and George Lucas their output."

― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Friday, 15 June 2018 13:43 (seven years ago)

(that is one publisher, these days, not five.)

― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Friday, 15 June 2018 13:44 (seven years ago)

four years pass...

Recent interview

https://m.soundcloud.com/cartoonist-kayfabe/the-daniel-clowes-shoot-interview-reflecting-on-the-complete-eightball-series-and-more

― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 14:52 (three years ago)

three months pass...

This fall

https://www.fantagraphics.com/collections/coming-soon/products/monica

― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 21 April 2023 19:12 (two years ago)

I’ve never been more excited for anything.

― dan selzer, Saturday, 22 April 2023 01:39 (two years ago)


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