rolling 2008 disgruntled shootings thread

It's the end times, you guys. From now on I'm going to assume everybody I see is on the verge of mass murder unless they charm me with social skills.

that Kirkwood Mo. shit is a few blocks from my parents' house, I was just there at Christmas. very messed up.

when they interviewed the shooter's family on the tv news and asked his mom and brother whether they had any indication that he had it in him to kill five people they were so unapologetic that the reporter was speechless. their reaction was basically "well the city went to war on him, he went to war back and here's what they got." wtf.

"I guess he targeted the people that he felt were persecuting him"

b-more represent

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22979416/

disgruntled shootings = slave revolts according to Martin Ames:

http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-82-4

http://www.buffalobeast.com/88/ames.htm

http://buffalobeast.com/116/massacreguide1.gif

ok srs waus @ "LOL YELLOW MAN"

disgruntled shootings = slave revolts according to Martin Ames:

-- Gavin, Saturday, February 9, 2008 5:25 PM

oversimplifying a tad i think

ah just read that interview link nvm

disgruntled shootings = slave revolts according to Martin Ames:

http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-82-4

http://www.buffalobeast.com/88/ames.htm

-- Gavin, Saturday, 9 February 2008 17:25

"A really fucking pathetic excuse for a society, today’s Americans, and in fact they’re a good argument in favor of abandoning democracy for something like a military junta. Except that sadly, there’s nothing most Americans would like more than to be ruled by a brutal military junta, so it wouldn’t teach them anything."

No offence to USAers, but the bluntness of that made me LOL.

http://www.wisn.com/news/15260397/detail.html

The land of cheese and cheese by-products chimes in.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/14/university.shooting/index.html

Reports: At least 18 shot at Illinois university
At least 18 people have been shot at Northern Illinois University outside Chicago, CNN affiliates are reporting. The university has ordered its student body to seek shelter and canceled classes. developing story

yeah a dude i know apparently just walked by one of the bodies (!!!!)

whoa

ffs

what did someone decide to do a chicago valentine's day massacre redux jesus h christ

just confirmed my brother who graduated from NIU in December and still gives lessons there was not on campus today.

jesus this shit does not cease to scare the shit out of me

LTV reports that Kishwaukee Medical Center in DeKalb is currently treating six people with head wounds.

i know a bunch of ppl who went to school there ... crazy

goddamnit

Kishwaukee Medical Center = where I was born

At the end of this story:

Still, once the immediate danger had passed, Gailey said he was concerned how the media would cover this latest incident.

"The person who did it is a loser," said Gailey, a second-year law student from Indiana. "He doesn't deserve a name or picture reference. You're not Kurt Cobain if you do that."

WHAT does it take to be Kurt Cobain these days?

1. Write depressing songs.
2. Kill self.

No guarantee it will work though - you may still just end up being Elliott Smith.

owch.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44430000/jpg/_44430480_ap203250bodystephen.jpg

Shit is crazy.

Yeah, my cousin goes there. In a panic, I checked his Facebook profile yesterday to make sure he was OK.

because if he'd gotten shot he would have updated his profile to read LOL I AM SHOT?

Jaymc's Cousin has added new photos to the album: SHOOTING PICS

I feel so sad when I see these guys' faces. I am just a softhearted softheaded person. I always dimly remember some WB cartoon, a Bugs Bunny one where affecting an Irish priest defending a Dead End kid Bugs says: "He had a mother once." And then I feel really sad. It's just so fucked up and there's nothing for it, whatever was wrong with dude I wish somebody had been able to help him fix it but instead he's dead and so are a lot of people and what an asshole move and how many sad friends and parents and how many assholes are gonna cop camera/mic time with their useless theories of what might be done to prevent this shit or who to punish in order to prevent it.

xxp Uh, because if he had logged in after the shooting occurred, it would mean he wasn't shot. And predictably, his Wall was already full of high school friends at other colleges asking him if he was OK, to which he said yes.

that is a confused sentence I don't mean that the sad friends and parents are assholes. I mean there's just a lot of awful fallout and some of it is sad friends & parents and then some of it is assholes.

r u high dood

sorry jaymc, that was crass, just don't know why you wouldn't have called him? maybe you don't have his digits though.

and yeah this shit is awful and horrible and but maybe that's how people check in these days :/

it is how people check in these days.

Nope, don't have his digits, and we're not that close, since he's like 8 years younger than I am.

It's probably easier for someone near a shooting to post "I'm fine" on the internet and go sit alone for the rest of the day than to field a stream of calls from every friend or relative on the phone list.

Except mothers, who are allowed to call and check in any time anything explodes, collapses, or gets shot anywhere within a three-county radius of wherever you live, even if it was a nursing home or something ("You could have been volunteering! Don't blame me for not knowing how you spend your time, you never call")

ex girlfriends do this^^ too :\

ive gotten an ex-girlfriend-are-you-dead call and it was really awkward

no amon I am just kinda freaked out and this stuff really depresses me.

xp Ha, my friend Kumail is a stand-up comic and has a bit about the exact same thing: his mom always calling every time anything bad happens in Chicago, regardless of the likelihood that he might have been involved. Maybe it's an immigrant-parent thing? (He's Pakistani.)

it's really weird trudging off to class every time something like this happens

ppl talk about looking for exits in clubs after the great white fire and i honestly can't help but do the same every time i go into a classroom/lecture hall now

this story is depressing:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8272585

ppl talk about looking for exits in clubs after the great white fire and i honestly can't help but do the same every time i go into a classroom/lecture hall now

we had to give a lecture to students on "the cone of death". basically if you're inside a classroom and you hear shots outside, you want to look at the door. from the door, there's a sixty degree "cone of death". if the door is in a corner, one edge of the angle of the cone is the perpendicular wall. if it's in the middle of a wall, the cone of death is thirty degrees on either side of a line perpendicular to the center of the doorway.

when you hide, you want to hide outside the cone of death. in other words, if the doorway is part of a wall, you want to run up and hide low and *against* that wall, preferably behind a desk or something, so that a shooter looking in through the door has the lowest chance of seeing you.

we also made sure everyone knew how to drop the window shutters (so a shooter can't see in the windows) and showed slides of different ways to build structures out of desks to block doors. hint: flip the bottom layer upside down and the middle layer sideways, so that the legs of the desks form a big tangle that can't be broken up.

I always assumed mom check-ins were one of those things that's not limited to immigrant parents, but maybe that's wrong, and not enough Americans have learned how to show love through an overdeveloped sense of worry

(My mother actually left a voicemail mentioning the thing I mentioned above, about this being the hospital where she had me)

like these guys view their moment of peace and happiness as an anomaly and the next bad thing that happens just confirms the worst for them. their worldview is so fucked that they can't see that bad shit happens to everyone (and the bad shit that happens to them is pretty run-of-the-mill)

He's failed, as a man, because he cannot perform the most central of male social functions - obtaining a mate.

Uh I don't have a mate either, and believe me, there are days when my personal failure in this area is kind of debilitating. Haven't shot anyone...yet.

cupid, draw back your bow...

Kind of tempted, tho.

well okay... but my point was that he wasn't espousing a POV of entitlement, of women OWING him their affection, or that he had the inherent RIGHT to "own" one or whatever. I don't really see that in his stuff. Its more about what a colossal failure he feels himself to be, and how he resents women for contributing to that sense of failure, for essentially making him a failure by finding him unattractive. This is a pretty different mindset from the "all women are bitches that owe me pussy" mindset.

x-post

Like, a lot of it was, I'm sure compounded by the relentless pressure from a male-driven society to compete, to demonstrate his manliness and virility in the most conventional way (I don't know if you feel a similar pressure from women to assert your femininity by finding a man, but I imagine its a bit of a different kind of pressure - probably one that ties into making you feel insecure about your weight, or appearance or whatever). For men it isn't about being physically attractive so much as its about power, the competition to be the alpha male, etc. If you think about it from a strictly anthropological/animal behaviorist point of view, the male that does not find a mate and reproduce is serving no function for the species as a whole, and in terms of other species, males that fail to mate are routinely killed or simply cast aside. That's essentially what happened with this guy. And he didn't want to be in that role.

wow that was not really very well phrased, sorry.

It's a tomayto/tomahto thing IMO; his inability to procure a mate would not have sent him into a homicidal downward spiral if it wasn't a central component of what he thought made one a successful man and his rage would not have been directed outward if there was no component of women being as complicit in his failures with them as he himself was. There is certainly an entitlement issue involved in shooting up a gym full of women because you are convinced none of them will ever date you.

He also was really vocal about his appreciation of "college" girls, a "hot little hottie with a beautiful bod", described his brother's success with woman as being low because the girlfriends he could get weren't very attractive, and said of his sister-in-law, "she has no body, no ass, no chest and no personality. (...) But she is highly intelligent and an excellent cook.(...) But who cares about that type of small bull crap?"

I can't verbalize this right now and I'm late for something important, but there's a direct relationship between women, in his worldview, having no value except as sexual and social capital, and a sense that at least OTHER men are entitled to that capital, even if he himself isn't uh, worthy. Or whatever.

"If you think about it from a strictly anthropological/animal behaviorist point of view, the male that does not find a mate and reproduce is serving no function for the species as a whole, and in terms of other species, males that fail to mate are routinely killed or simply cast aside. "

I wonder if men thought of their role in society in terms of that ev-psych/behaviourist stuff even fifty years ago? It's always seemed like it came into popular culture along with the PUA stuff.

I don't know if you feel a similar pressure from women to assert your femininity by finding a man, but I imagine its a bit of a different kind of pressure - probably one that ties into making you feel insecure about your weight, or appearance or whatever

Actually, my sadness is because society is made of up families, and I love the one I come from, and I fear never having one of my own and never being rewoven into society or taking part in making that totally awesome thing live again in a new form for a new generation. But that's just on the bad days.

"she has no body, no ass, no chest and no personality. (...) But she is highly intelligent and an excellent cook.(...) But who cares about that type of small bull crap?"

yeah this is some serious arrested development shit - like, if you are over the age of oh I dunno, 21, and thinking this way, someone needs to straighten you out.

x-post

More and more I think this guy and this day are a poor time to talk about certain things, because the end result was that he was so intensely jacked up that he went out and killed women. This not only handily wipes out any shred of empathy but also makes it really difficult to talk about certain banal problems he had, because in his case they were not banal; they were twisted enough to turn homicidal. Also he had agency, and used his agency in the most awful way, and any attempt to talk about the stuff going on with him where (I think) he had less agency is liable to be misread as an excuse for something totally different.

It really is too bad, though, because there are severe issues he clearly had that I wish I could be talked about, and don't really get to be talked about on other days.

(And part and parcel of the issues is that we don't talk about them when they're non-severe)

It can be talked about, it's just probably not a good idea to talk about him today with someone who has gone on record as being full of rage right now!

That's basically what I mean and why I said I'd ask Laurel another day, but even apart from Laurel, like ... this guy is just a bad way of talking about certain things, cause in the end the guy killed people, and that overwhelms certain shit

You think that level of misogyny rules out strip-clubs or call-girls as being an option? They seem to fit the "woman as object" pretty well but don't fit/satisfy this kind of psychopath. maybe thats evidence that the whole gender issue is an outgrowth of something deeper down.

We'll get Robert Bly in here to moderate the debate.

There's this diary quote on the first jezebel post that struck me:

"I dress good, am clean-shaven, bathe, touch of cologne - yet 30 million women rejected me - over an 18 or 25-year period. That is how I see it. Thirty million is my rough guesstimate of how many desirable single women there are. A man needs a woman for confidence. He gets a boost on the job, career, with other men, and everywhere else when he knows inside he has someone to spend the night with and who is also a friend. This type of life I see is a closed world with me specifically and totally excluded. Every other guy does this successfully to a degree."

It's that "a man needs a woman for confidence" thing that I can't get out of my head -- a woman as an accessory that would make him better at life (and would prove he was better at life). So it's woman as object but it's designed so that strip clubs and call girls would not suffice.

also the idea that all the desirable single women in the world have rejected him already.

That was the statement that I found the most telling.

he sounds like an extreme example of what i think a lot of guys do, which is to say they don't improve themselves but wait around passively for someone to come around and make their life better.

he may have "dressed good" but his grammar was fucking atrocious

he knows inside he has someone to spend the night with and who is also a friend

maybe its stating the obvious to point this out but ^^^this totally contradicts this: she has no body, no ass, no chest and no personality. (...) But she is highly intelligent and an excellent cook.(...) But who cares about that type of small bull crap?

he wanted some highly unattainable ideal, basically

body ass chest personality = 'desirable' traits in woman to spend night with who is also a friend
intelligence, cooking skills = not 'desirable' traits in woman to spend night with who is also a friend?

i have to say when i first read that entry i glossed over 'he knows inside' and assumed it was quite baldly stating that guys w/ visible girlfriends do better at work and with other men. So I'd have guessed that having a physically attractive girlfriend was the better status symbol.

well its not so much that the individual criteria are contradictory as much as the first set is essentially empathetic (someone who cares, who will be there for him, is a friend) and the second set is more like a series of things you would give a grade for on a dating show (appearance, cooking skills, intelligence, personality, etc.). The first set is about an actual relationship, the second set is about meeting some kind of arbitrary standard.

only one thing about the first set is empathetic - the rest is "it is a boost to a man's success in life to have the self-esteem of knowing he's got a girlfriend".
(and then the second set reads to me like "the faults of my brother's wife that make him less of a success")

Keep up the good work, TGSCOM!

Thompson said in a statement referring to Sodini himself that he was "deeply saddened by the tragic loss of life at the hands of a disturbed and socially stunted man."

the problem was the women were unarmed while exercising

This is the only thread that actually scares me every time it gets revived.

the problem was the women were unarmed while exercising

I lolled

The Whittier dating guru connection.

He also tells his audience, "It's normal to be scared when you have been hurt by women in the past," and adds: "The first woman that hurt you is your mother. And that lasts a lifetime."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6705917.html

lol

i mean lol at the revive not the shooting

this dude's name is gonna have a loooot of crazy paranoid people poppin off

they shouldn't let the military have guns

this is gonna be like that doctor who thread, in that it's too late to do a new thread so everyone waits until 2010

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33726074/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/os-shooting-reported-downtown-orlando-20091106,0,2642883.story

the thread is going backwards now

For once, a happy ending to one of these

In a scene reminiscent of other school shootings, a Northern Virginia Community College teacher spotted a weapon and ducked to avoid gunfire. Students ran from the classroom building while others barricaded themselves inside, piling desks in front of doors.

This time, though, no one was hurt.

Police said Jason Michael Hamilton, 20, opened fire in a classroom Tuesday with a high-powered rifle, but did not hit anyone and surrendered peacefully in a hallway. He was later charged with attempted murder and discharging a firearm in a school zone and was being held without bond.

A neighbor described Hamilton as a loner who lived in his family's basement in an affluent new subdivision near the school in Woodbridge, about 25 miles south of Washington, D.C. Two police cars were outside his home and wouldn't let reporters close.

I used to live about 15 minutes away from there, in Fairfax.

oh, it's not gonna help his case that he found one more thing to suck at.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8446728.stm

CNN: Suspect identified as Timothy Hendron; no word whether he's among those killed

oh i guess that's old

Upon arrival, a police SWAT team moved methodically through the plant for the next four hours, unsure if the gunman was among the deceased. Hendron's body was eventually found and is awaiting identification.

rolling disgruntled shootings thread 2010

hah i thought this was the new thread