Ennui: Classic or I'm Just Gonna Lay Down and Stare at This Blank Wall

I have almost one whole reason to get out of bed lately: my dog needs to go out to pee & c. That's about it.

et shitera

i am here now

ennui, not a return ticket

Stuck in a boring cloudland with no synapses.

the dialtone of emotions

Don't go the way of Neville, Abbott.

(Is it bad that I cannot see one of your posts without hearing Lou Costello in my head?)

No, it is excellent.

Unfortunately it lends a tinge of shoutiness to your posts but, otoh, adds an unforseen comedic element, too.

sometimes I can almost enjoy blue moods, if they are mild. If I try not to think too hard or worry about anything until the depression passes, the depression can have a kind of luxurious sedative effect.

thank you for not reviving my swv thread

ennweener

so many reasons to get up and get shit done, but i can't make myself do it.

Ennui: Classic or I'm Just Gonna Lay Down and Stare at This Blank WallRefresh ILX Every Twenty Seconds

yes, that has been known to happen in my world.

This emotion occupies a significant portion of my day, if I let it.

Ugh.

How do you not let it? This seems a useful skill.

Moving around...going for a walk. Singing, emoting, whatever to break up the stagnancy

Uh, Abbott, aren't you getting married? What the hell is wrong with you?

lol ian is a man

getting married is like the most exhausting manic depressive episode in a woman's life, I think? I imagine having a bun in the oven is actually less stressful for most of them

for dudes it's when we decide to buy a boat

That speaks to part of why I find the "melancholy can be a fun break of sorts" comments here to be intersting. So many "happy" life events are also potentially very stressful...not to mention the stress that goes along with becoming "successful".

Ennui: Classic or I'm Just Gonna Lay Down and Stare at This Blank WallRefresh ILX Every Twenty Seconds

-- tehresa, Friday, March 7, 2008 2:58 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

<3 <3 <3 tehrza

all stress is grief

You mean grief in the "pain in the ass" sense, or grief in the "pain in the heart" sense?

things change, something is lost, you need to grieve, you're not allowed to grieve because nobody wants to admit that everything sucks, presto, insomnia, malaise, overeating and a bad heart

On that note, I like this book a lot

ennui
by tombot (age 14)

Things change
something is lost
you need to grieve

you're not allowed
to grieve
because nobody
wants to admit
everything sucks
presto!

(insomnia;
malaise;
overeating

and a
bad
heart
)

xpost to myself?

Maybe too (insert pejorative for "hippie-ish"(is that tautological? possibly...)here) for some, but his basic thesis overlaps your last post.

read Kugelmann's STRESS for a great intellectual history of the concept

although as pointed out elsewhere, melancholy/ennui and stress/grief can be very different animals. For instance, myelin abnormalities are associated with one more than the other, I think

xpost
wow. That looks great. Thanks.

nervous breakdown: folk illness?

Yes. That would make sense that there would be more dramatic neurological data to be gathered from the latter phenomena. World-weariness/lebensmude is yeah, a realm apart from the loss of a loved one or some other traumatic intense shit.

nervous breakdown: folk illness?

Nah, I think if by "folk illness" you mean "not real", no.

It's more a thing of vague terminology. "Nervous Breakdown"= neurasthenia a hundred years prior?

exactly

"Communication Breakdown"=drive me inssssssaaaaaaaaaaaaaane.

folk illness doesn't mean 'not real' -- see 'susto -- it means culturally-bound, kind of taxonomized within natively proscribed limits of expression.

e.g. preponderance of suicide among certain groups, non-existence in others

melancholy/ennui and stress/grief can be very different animals. For instance, myelin abnormalities are associated with one more than the other, I think

i've only ever had melancholy/ennui directly because of stress/grief. pretty sure stress is terrible for the whole nervous system situation all around. i hate stress so much and burn out from long stretches of it so intensely it might as well be a nervous breakdown.

which is kind of annoying because it means that i will never get to be a super spy of jason bourne proportions :(

pretty into the wisdom of the tombot age 14 poem

Oh, okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, that whole concept is fascinating. Whenever I've leisurely browsed through the DSM, I would always find myself lingering on the section (towards the back) dealing with mental illness phenomena not recognized by Western culture.

In that sense, then, I guess, yeah. "Nervous breakdown", would, I guess qualify, though, it's such a vague descriptor which only seems to be used colloquially, so...

(xposts)

pretty into the wisdom of the tombot age 14 poem

yeah, would be rather an impressive 14 year-old.

tombot's ennui poem summarizes a good portion of nietzsche AND it has the word "presto!"

no actually i take that back

it's probably a psychologically naive position to take, but i pretty strongly subscribe to the belief that faking approximate happiness is actually a good method to achieving genuine happiness. this is different than pretending that nothing in life is wrong, or sad, or worth grieving over... but in my experience, investment in positive psychic artifice is a pretty good mechanism for redirecting anxiety, stress, mopiness away from other destructive patterns.

I had never heard of "susto". Really fascinating.

It's interesting how many cultures overlap in the sense of describing similar conditions of "soul loss".

getting married is like the most exhausting manic depressive episode in a woman's life, I think? I imagine having a bun in the oven is actually less stressful for most of them

-- El Tomboto, Friday, March 7, 2008 8:25 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

based on having seen the tv show "bridezillas" i would say that this is true.

the purpose of the tv show bridezillas is to give other bridezillas an artificially low baseline of what is acceptable behavior.

also the one on vh1 show with the brady bunch guy and the psycho model lady. i am so pro-city hall.

etiologically speaking, i think that the emotion we classify as grief/grieving is largely shame and horror at the temporary reveal of Things As They Really Are, in kind of an Ingmar Bergman sense, without the self-betrayal and societal-betrayal we use to justify minute human action against the preponderance of uncaring nature.

In other words, we feel grief after we've unwittingly seen a peep show of the true red-in-tooth-and-clawness of everything we all know about but pretend isn't around.

I don't know about you but I grieve daily for the look-and-feel of System 6.0.7

RIP little guy

it's probably a psychologically naive position to take, but i pretty strongly subscribe to the belief that faking approximate happiness is actually a good method to achieving genuine happiness. this is different than pretending that nothing in life is wrong, or sad, or worth grieving over... but in my experience, investment in positive psychic artifice is a pretty good mechanism for redirecting anxiety, stress, mopiness away from other destructive patterns.

I agree, and especially if it works for you. Tony Robbins, and others of his ilk-jokes aside, having a positive attitude or "fake it until you make it" kinda stuff is not to be underestimated.

I find that when I am mired in the depressoes, investigation reveals that it's because I am holding on to some comically distorted view of myself and the greater world around me. So...CBT alright in my book.

I'm just bad at faking stuff

well, i think that phony happiness (which, admittedly, can be grating to others) is a device i seem to have some fluency at. conversely, i am nearly incapable of summoning anger even when a situation could be resolved most quickly and effectively with a little show of balls. but i am pretty sure anger, false gaiety, busy-bee syndrome are all sublimations of the same basic unhappiness, and none of them is more correct than any of the others.

In other words, we feel grief after we've unwittingly seen a peep show of the true red-in-tooth-and-clawness of everything we all know about but pretend isn't around.

I agree largely with what you're saying. Also there is a flip side to that, I think. That is, suppose a loved one dies/dumps you/what have you; well, alright, you are gonna feel massive grief, obviously. But the fact that you are able to feel that grief at all, is a tribute to your own heart. The person in question has died, or is gone from your life for whatever reason, and remaining from that is this deep pain, which stems from vulnerability, and a willingness to extend your heart. That in itself I think is extremely life-affirming. But most of the time we're so focused on other people, and projecting all kinds of stuff onto them, such that we miss out on all of the good shit inside of us.

I suspect most of us (humanity in general, I mean) are bereft of even the faintest clue as to how to love ourselves

*bites tongue*

we feel grief after we've unwittingly seen a peep show of the true red-in-tooth-and-clawness of everything we all know about but pretend isn't around.

Yes. In my life that kind veil of denial is called "the pink bubble". It's a semi-permeable membrane that admits sci-fi and kind things but forbids horror movies, prosperity theology, and Martin Amis.

I'm just bad at faking stuff

Me too, me too... but if I do something like that in the spirit of experimentation, like, doing X seems to be making me miserable, but what if, (even though I think it's total bullshit) I were to take a trial run at strategy Y, even if only for laughs. That's the nature of my self-con, which seems to work.

*bites tongue*

What, what, what? Go ahead, have at me or that post. I don't care.

i think he just knows how to love himself but good.

Oh, masturbation joke? No, that's called SELF-POLLUTION!

This emotion occupies a significant portion of my day, if I let it.
Ugh.
-- B.L.A.M., Friday, March 7, 2008 8:05 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

How do you not let it? This seems a useful skill.
-- Abbott, Friday, March 7, 2008 8:06 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

I think that this...incapability to move forward from a position of melancholy/ennui is the most difficult thing for me.

It really is just making the first step that is the hardest for me. Don't get bogged down - just start moving. Eventually, it will work itself out.

But, man...can emotional inertia work its evil on me something FIERCE.

It's funny 'cause my brain doesn't really work that way. Escapism and fantasy invariably lead me to self-loathing since I cannot avoid being hyper-aware of the true red-in-tooth-and-clawness of everything and I find it less depressing to actually just acknowledge the indifference of the universe than to pretend, à la Kundera's definition of kitsch as the absolute denial of shit, that it doesn't exist or that it needn't trouble me.

But not today. Its Friday, its sunny, and I've got fuck all to do this weekend! Thanks lazy client for not getting us the stuff we need!

What, what, what? Go ahead, have at me or that post. I don't care.

My dear dell, I thought it a rather insightful post but I am unable to suppress my inner 12 year old.

im tempted to ask why everyone is so sure that everything is truly awful, horrible, violent, and being happy is just kidding ourselves...? or am i misinterpreting?

It's funny 'cause my brain doesn't really work that way. Escapism and fantasy invariably lead me to self-loathing since I cannot avoid being hyper-aware of the true red-in-tooth-and-clawness of everything and I find it less depressing to actually just acknowledge the indifference of the universe than to pretend, à la Kundera's definition of kitsch as the absolute denial of shit, that it doesn't exist or that it needn't trouble me.

I would like one day to write (or hire someone smarter/more articulate than me, duh, a GHOSTWRITER) a Routledge stylee book dealing with the metaphysics of an alcohol-induced hangover. When I do, may I reference this snippet by you in the introduction?

it's the century after the 20th century max

being happy is an accident of circumstances and unintended chemistry obv

deej, for a couple of drinks, sure.

its not that i necc disagree im just a wee bit skeptical of the "we think/convince ourselves its all this way but its REALLY and TRULY this way" construction of a metaphysics

Tom, did you see that study this week about how there were genetic markers for sanguine personalities?

deej, for a couple of drinks, sure.

I'M NOT "DEEJ"!

But I'd still buy you a couple of drinks in exchange for your intellectual property.

Sorry, dell. Truly. I'm a little addle-pated today.

max,

i don't think the world is truly awful, horrible, violent ... just indifferent .. and that the inevitable facts of the universe lead to death, decay, separation, and loss from those things in which we choose to love.

this doesn't mean we shouldn't give all we've got toward betterment, affection, humanity and elevation of our own condition: we should, absoltely. but at the moments in which we lose things that we care about, and realize how, err, alone and unique we are in the world, it's only natural that we see the cracks in the system we've created around outselves.

in kind of a Kierkegaardian sense, this is our secularist leap-of-faith: that we can have fun and be happy, enjoy life in spite of the fact we are all going to turn to rotten meat, and everything we love will eventually be destroyed.

as i see it, it is liberating and actually a humanistic philosophy that almost all of us can engage in this process (and i don't think it's a delusion) the vast majority of our lives.

I hear you, Michael, but I think of it as more of a refusal to dwell on the indifference of the universe and instead to busy my attention with transformational, hopeful things. Mostly. Well, it's a general guideline, anyway.

yeah MW I read something about a blood test for feelin' like shit, not necessarily anything about markers for feeling up though I would assume one follows the other?

ya ok remy i can be a lot more into that

admittedly, i was raised to quaker teachings, and place a lot of stock in ideas of transcendence (xp to self)

i think hpencil had a high school band called ennui /.xls

sure cure for ennui: cheap trick, really loud.

beer

I'm a little addle-pated today.

Me, too Michael, no worries.

http://vicariance.net/random/eysenck.gif

Speaking of sanguine personalities, I was thinking the other day about the intersection of some friends of mine, and our personal dynamics, and I realized that I came out on the melancholic side. But, I think they might beg to differ? I should consult.

if i were going to stare at a blank wall i'd probably take a crayola and draw a face on it.

would talking to a crayon face on a wall be more or less insane than talking to an empty wall?

My take, stemming from the whole 'what's the Darwinian point of homosexuality/suicide/lifelong celibacy question, is that just as we are not as individually discrete genetically as we like to think (our genome is littered with the clutter left from zillions of historical viral attacks and we require e coli in our GI track, etc...), we're also inevitably social animals and every different kind of personality out there is either beneficial to the tribe at some moment or associated with something beneficial or just not so detrimental as to constitute a selective agent. Some people may inherit a predisposition to worry or to joy, and they have to live with it, with themsleves, but also with the other personality types.

also, remy, well-put

http://www.mrsfun.com/images/noennui.gif

Hey, remy, do quakers make you feel good?

Is there any church or like decent social group where you don't have to believe in anything remotely "spiritual" and it doesn't cost money to get in? I'm reading Bowling Alone and I think I could do with some interpersonal 'networking' type shit. But the rub is I mostly don't care to be around others.

Quakers don't make you feel any better but they lower your cholesterol in 30 days.

Abbot maybe you should join an ultimate frisbee club

Hmmm, I seem to hover between phlegmatic and melancholy.

haha "leadership"

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/duchessofalba/illustation/Ennui.jpg

Ennui is totally awesome! It gets me so pumped up!

It's great for novels and films, but in practice it's very difficult to enjoy.

hey guys i've been biting my tongue on this thread cause who wants to hear some dude dodder on about Magic Thing X will fix all yr probs, but i think remy is pretty much straight here.

also

http://www.mro.org/zmm/teachings/images/zazen/fulllotusfront.jpg

^^^ sitting like this and breathing real slow has helped me a lot

^^^ sitting like this and paying attn to my own breathing real slow has helped me a lot

I'm dealing with a bit of this right now... I can think through the problem I'm having and have a pretty rational explanation in my head, but I still physically feel stressed and depressed. Even though I know I shouldn't feel that way. Funnily enough, it's because I've finally had it with my crappy job and I'm quitting on Monday... just the stress of knowing is getting to me.