More 9/11 conspiracy theory action ahoy -- with pictures!

Hopefully this is one of those cases where there's some really fascinating physical/mechanical process that explains everything, much like the whole "why did the towers fall" conspiracy.

"The woman I share an office with was almost hit by the plane as she drove up washington blvd that morning (our office is a couple of miles from the Pentagon). she ran in and told me about it, and then 15 or 20 mins later it was on the news as "an explosion." I am pretty sure she was not an inside member of a vast conspiracy.

Having driven by then Pentagon shortly there after and many times since, I can tell you that the size of the hole and the amount of blackened concrete was considerable, the pictures don't really give you the scale b/c the width of the bldg makes it seem very low in comparison. They've closed the gap up now, they are trying to get it all fixed as soon as possible, I guess."

My own problem with what this theory getting at was -- what *did* happen to the plane? (Cue talk of shooting down jets over the ocean or whatever.)

(My new browser has a spell checker for forms, never more shall I misspell on ILE, but first I have to teach it british English)

I'd love to know where the conspiracy site guy got his pics from. They are quite clear, and mega-detailed.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0203/S00051.htm

Which also brings up a point of why there was never a fighter plane in the air, yet when a small aircraft runs low on cabin pressure, a fighter jet is there within 15 minutes?

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

As far as the extent of the damage, I had always thought for some reason that the pantagon was actually built to withstand a direct nuclear strike, at least with the kind of atomic weapons payloads that were available when it was constructed.

Moses saw GOD in a burning Bush.

Kinda gives it that added extra edge...

now i'm just more confused... certainly, the missing footage alleged in this slideshow needs to surface.

i just found out one of my friend's is a hardcore 9/11 conspiracy theorist. we just now became e-friends and his profile page looks like some presidential assassin's. otherwise, he's a cool, nice, normal guy.

i sent him the link to this Popular Mechanics article and he hasn't responded.

(I guess I've felt similar when speaking with devout Christians, but I've dared to attack them.)

er, haven't dared to attack them.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ has been pretty good, but the best article arguing against WTC controlled demolition comes from the professional demolition folks at Implosion World. (PDF link)

lol Americans.

lol everything

LOL @ Americans

LOL @ Teh W0lrd

lol I can't help it

lol I cant

<i> i just found out one of my friend's is a hardcore 9/11 conspiracy theorist. we just now became e-friends and his profile page looks like some presidential assassin's. otherwise, he's a cool, nice, normal guy.

i sent him the link to this Popular Mechanics article and he hasn't responded.<i/>

Did you, in the interests of a balanced debate, also include links to any of the many articles observing Popular Mechanics' failure to address the issues which feed so much 9/11 conspiracy theory?

Your friend might be more responsive then...

you fucking idiot trolls

nah, i don't really care too much; this isn't a debate. anyone that believes in some sort of 9/11 conspiracy has some serious problems.

i believe in fake concocted evidence like the passport that flew out of the plane and the WTC, through the flames and landed conveniently on the street. LOL

anyone that believes in some sort of 9/11 conspiracy has some serious problems.

Isn't that the Fox news technique? It is! That's what they say anytime someone suggests something they disagree with. "Crazy". Crazy is really the latest rage in put-downs, even by people who don't think about it as a "strategy," like Murdoch's team.

Just now, I feel you were being totally sincere without intention of being offensive. But, really? "Serious problems?" I don't see the connection. That means a lot of the firefighters and police who were there are wackjobs. That reminds me of when people say that "people just can't accept the reality that terrorists got the better of us." Really? To me, it's far easier and comfortable to accept that the bad guys did us harm than it is to even begin to fathom that our own government might do this to us as a false flag operation.

There is a lot of bullshit that went down that has seriously never been addressed. Heave Ho's point is just one. That's total bullshit. Or, I mean, do you think it's sane to suggest that everything was pulverized except a passport. They couldn't find a black box, but they found a passport? And the FBI list of hijackers? Or the florida dentist who was poisoned that was going to testify about the men he suspected were terrorists and was trying desperately to alert the FBI? I don't see why anyone would have to be crazy to suspect some conspiracy here.

Take a look at that documentary "The Power of Nightmares" and see if it still seems so far-fetched. It's not something slapped together like Loose Change by a bunch of college kids. And it gives a good, clear picture of how neocons think. If you have to be nutso to suspect a conspiracy, then it seems like there are a lot of crazy people out there. I mean, isn't it almost half of America now that believes our government at least knew about it and didn't do anything as a pretext for war? Not to mention the suspicion around the world? I mean, I can predict a response like, "Yeah, look how many people voted for Bush" to make the point that people are just idiots, so it's not surprising that so many believe in a conspiracy, but I'm sure a lot of very smart people voted for Bush, too.

Also, I just want to make mention that a lot of people who believe there is a conspiracy simply don't talk about it for fear of being called crazy, but they will anonymously check the appropriate mark on a poll. I don't think you have to challenge your friend or call people crazy just because it is the popular opinion. How does it help the situation for people to be on the side of government secrecy? Obviously, there's some secrets, so help put pressure to get the full story. Why help the government keep it's secrets? Rupert Murdoch isn't paying you to do that. When you look at the millions of dollars that have been spent on other investigations, 9/11 is an insult to our intelligence. $5 million without a definite official conclusion on many issues. Just dropped. And here you are helping these people to say, "Go away, go away, just leave us alone." I don't understand this. Why don't rational, responsible people want to know the full story?

http://www.rightwinged.com/images/photoshops/moonbat.jpg

Moonbat, that's a total Fox insult which is generally followed by hanging up on a caller.

http://ny911truth.org/images/charlie_sheen.jpg
http://ny911truth.org/images/charlie_sheen.jpg
http://ny911truth.org/images/charlie_sheen.jpg

Does that make me 3x the Charlie Sheen Charlie Sheen is?

drugs will set u free

i'm a scientologist

It is very odd that the people who masterminded /11 were all wealthy young Saudis. Moreso that - correct me if I'm wrong - such people havent since been perpetrators in any terrorist attacks have they?

Frustrated, well-educated young men are exactly the group that perpetrates most terror attacks. And Mohammed Atta was Egyptian.

Frustrated, well-educated young men are exactly the group that perpetrates most terror attacks

mumford & sons, for example

https://knockknockstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/081511_First-High-Five-Pic_F-480x600.jpg

Clap Your Hands Say Allah

Clap Your Hands Say Yahweh

melt your beams say what?!

Frustrated, well-educated young men are exactly the group that perpetrates most terror attacks. And Mohammed Atta was Egyptian.

I don't know, seems to be a hell of a lot of feckless losers and petty criminals involved too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3xgjxJwedA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3noExmsCRyg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdGJQgEMnxI

makes u think

but does not make u click

then fuck off

great revive (h/t BG)

ffs

bstep if you want to talk about 9/11 conspiracies maybe a better way to start a conversation would be an actual post outlining your thoughts instead of flopping out over four hours of youtube videos onto the thread and then telling people who engage with you to fuck off

great revive (h/t BG)

h/t to pomenitul shurely

cogent arguments won't melt steel belligerence

9/11 is a joke iirc

Why would we not want to click on videos from the Corbett Report, a show that featured Stefan Molyneux as a "guest host"?

So get up get get get get down
9/11 is a joke in this town

CaptainLorax???

naw he's a good poster now i kid. anyway fp'd

fp-ing over 9/11 is nagl imho

jet fuel can’t melt sb’s

not a good lunch

Nothing ruins a lunch quite like once again witnessing some fiend engaged in a 9/11 fp-fest. Get a room.

CORRECTION:

https://imgur.com/nlkTKrH

https://i.imgur.com/nlkTKrH.jpg

lolssss

im a fan of conspiracy theories, i find them interesting. i generally don't believe them - i think jfk was shot by oswald alone - but i enjoy the whole recounting of those suspicious facts that make you possibly question the official story. 9/11 conspiracy is a huge snooze for me though.

i remember watching football once with a schizophrenic hippy who voted green party (here in canada) and two alberta oil workers (small c conservatives, probably voted tory), and they could all agree that you'd be crazy to think the planes brought the towers down. i didn't try and disabuse them of their opinion, because what's the point?

I think a plane hitting the lawn at an speed would create a big fucking skidmark. And the a huge motherfucking explosion. I dont think there would be any green grass left in the area.
― LosWoozle, Tuesday, May 7, 2002 8:00 PM bookmarkflaglink

yeah but crabgrass, nothing gets rid of crabgrass
― mark s, Tuesday, May 7, 2002 8:00 PM bookmarkflaglink

Shit my eyes are open

https://i.ibb.co/tyWyj8z/FB-IMG-1774373098927.jpg

lol that’s amazing reasoning, the planes didn’t come out of it too well on 9/11 either iirc

going at full speed directly into a building whilst full of fuel is kind of a different level of destructive force to crashing into a fire engine on a runway ..lol

I had a plumber come by recently who was a major leftie, but convo did turn crankish pretty quick - Bush did 9/11, the queen had Lady Di killed. I didn't really push back because even though I don't believe either of those the anger at and moral estimation of Bush and the Royal Family was still pretty otm.

What a weirdo. Bush killed Lady Di and the Queen did 9/11.

going back to the War on Terror era. I will listen to people who consider the deaths Dr David Kelly and Robin Cook as dodgy as fuck at best.

the queen had Lady Di killed

my rw stepdad, who worships the royal family and loved Di, also believes this and sees no conflict with his other beliefs

Kermit the Frog did 9/11

The Rainbow Connection, by Robert Ludlum

I had a plumber come by recently who was a major leftie, but convo did turn crankish pretty quick - Bush did 9/11, the queen had Lady Di killed. I didn't really push back because even though I don't believe either of those the anger at and moral estimation of Bush and the Royal Family was still pretty otm.

Its always interesting to me to remember how the US left was absolutely rife with wild conspiracy theories in the aughts that were generally tolerated, if not generally taken seriously. I'd hear otherwise intelligent people talk about how Bush did 9/11, Paul Wellstone was murdered, Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy, Diebold voting machines rigged the 2004 election, etc. And I was generally forgiving of it in the same way - I didnt believe it, but I'd shrug and think "well this person hates Bush so much that's its led them to go a little overboard - and who can blame them?"

It's wild to me how that era of loony left wing conspiracy theories has been more or less memory holed, although probably for the best, like embarrassing teenage poetry. I guess the important difference between that and our current nightmare is that none of the lefties who believed Bush was wearing a radio transmitter during that one debate did any mass shootings over it.

I was at a Howard Zinn lecture a few weeks after 9/11 and someone in the audience started talking about the "evidence" that Israel had done the attacks and Zinn just said "Well, we don't know who did the attacks."

Back the 90s even, the common lefty response to everything seemed to be that the government/CIA/FBI did it. Brand Davidian fire, OK City, Olympics bombing, first WTC bombing.

The government/FBI/CIA had done a lot of things from the 1950s-80s. … there is a tankie faction that currently rivals the wingnut right

just wanna appreciate this post (from 6 years ago) one more time

jet fuel can’t melt sb’s

― Homegrown Georgia speedster Ladd McConkey (bizarro gazzara)

I'm all in on the JFK stuff. But this is just patent bollox. The incredible kinetic force of a plane hitting a building and then the fuel making an infernal blaze as it bursts outwards into the big blown out hole in the building, even for ppl from non-engineering backgrounds it's easy to believe that's enough to start a domino effect crater collapse in any big building. It might not always take them down, but it's sure enough to.

might have been progressive column failure rather than pancaking that took them down, fuck knows. I listened to interview with someone who survived inside the stairs when it collapsed and they said it sounded like a speeding express train coming towards them as the floors collapsing one by one rapidly speeded up. Wouldn't have wanted to be them.

I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation as to how planted charges would survive being near to the impacts but I suppose that’s where the lasers come in. I’ll add this question on to my song request at the next Medicine concert.

"completely destroyed" is doing a lot of heavy lifting for the recent plane accident.