paranoia trilogies: frankenheimer vs pakula

(meaning the character, not burt himself)

that hippie bacchanalia in Seconds is all time lolz

i'd take tmc over atpm, tho the latter is nice

i love mancho and seconds so... franky

I think I just like AtPM because the good guys mostly win at the end and nobody gets horribly murdered. it's easier on the innards.

i was just reading about the parallax view yesterday, i've never seen it but unfortunately i read about how it ends : /

this reminds me that i need to watch all of 3 days of the condor, i've only seen the beginning which is brilliant

I gotta go with Pakula for AtPM and Klute

hahaha gershy I watched TPV a week or so ago and totally had the ending pegged after about thirty minutes in. it's the prototype for like 50% of all thrillers since. that's maybe the biggest problem with the pakula movies - the ideas in them have been quoted and recycled so much that the original material seems pedestrian at this point

this reminds me that i need to watch all of 3 days of the condor, i've only seen the beginning which is brilliant

-- gershy, Monday, March 31, 2008 4:28 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

how many days did you watch

i saw the first 15 minutes

frankenheimer easy; the only thing i like about the pakulas are certain performances by actors who've nonetheless done i enjoyed alot more elsewhere.

name names!

ATPM is great (there's some old thread where j. blount hassles morbs nonstop for saying he liked it, but i think it works brilliantly and love the way it never assumes the viewer's an idiot) but MC is pretty much my favorite film ever.

that scene where the milk spills -- whoo!!

haha, still not feeling it, apparently
xpost

Just saw Seconds. Drawing a veil over the hippie nonsense in the middle, it's one of the creepiest films I've ever seen: the relentless sense of doom, the menacing performances (esp Will Geer and the guy who plays John), the bad-trip Saul Bass opening credits, the unsettling cinematography. Must have been a big influence on Fincher's The Game, but a hundred times bleaker. First film in ages to give me bad dreams afterwards. More disturbing than anything Pakula did because it takes a fairly common midlife desire to start again and pushes it to a terrifying conclusion - be careful what you wish for and all that.

Saw The Parallax View last night at the local beer theater.

Awesome, awesome film. Beautifully shot, and a great vibe of pre-tech-boom Seattle.

Just saw Seven Days in May for the first time - great stuff from Douglas and Lancaster but a bit underwhelming - so Pakula trumps Frankenheimer overall, but Seconds is still the freakiest of the lot.

Rewatched Parallax last night and was struck by the impossibility that anyone would ever make an ostensbly mainstream thriller like this again. The pacing is so patient. We see one person ride an escalator, then the empty escalator, then someone else ride the escalator, and it's somehow riveting. The visual storytelling is so good that the dialogue just disappears for long stretches. Pakula even gets suspense out of a pile of airline napkins. Some of the shots of buildings are so stark and beautiful you could hang them on your wall. And even Warren Beatty's hair is paranoid.

an alternate paranoia trilogy: Peter Watkins: Privilege - Gladiators - Punishment Park

Costa-Gavras:

Z (1969)
L'Aveu (1970)
Missing (1982)

(though you could probably choose any three of this)

like State of Siege which I still haven't seen.

pakula has an alternate paranoia trilogy with presumed innocent/consenting adults/pelican brief

I desperately want to see "Seconds" but it's long out of print, even Netflix doesn't have it :(

Really? That's too bad. That's an awesome movie.

I think our local video store has a copy on VHS ... I first signed up for Netflix because State of Siege came up as a movie in their inventory, before I realized that "availability unknown" means they actually don't have it.

Seconds appears to be available Now on Netflix.

still saving All The President's Men for some future night or other, but having seen the others, I have to vote for the guy who directed Seconds, even if I was really pleased when Parallax View came in 2nd in this: The 1970s Conspiracy / Espionage / Paranoia Movie Poll

Parallax View really is all about the middle indoctrination film, so I was blown away a few months ago when a friend recommended the early 60's collage films of Arthur Lipsett

http://nfb.ca/film/Very_Nice_Very_Nice/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzPEQF4Ys28

good news about Seconds on dvd ... will probably add to queue after I finish up watching the last season of Sandbaggers.

You are correct though that State of Siege is not.

Fantastic- last time I checked was a few weeks ago. I guess they've just got one or two copies left, or something...

was struck by the impossibility that anyone would ever make an ostensbly mainstream thriller like this again. The pacing is so patient

Yes, Ritalin multiplex kids not interested, so won't be greenlit.

instead we get Bourne automata

saw Seconds last night ... video store had it on DVD, actually ... I thought Manchurian Candidate was a better film. The bacchanalian scene was exceptionally goofy.

i have pretty much the same take on it. james wong howe A+++ tho

it's nowhere near Manch level, but kind of incredible (in all ways).

it does make me think about the way the "bohemian" lifestyle was depicted prior to the hippy days and beyond.

I got Seconds from Netflix a while ago.

"I thought Manchurian Candidate was a better film."

Oh yeah. No disputing that. Still it's pretty excellent.

"Rewatched Parallax last night and was struck by the impossibility that anyone would ever make an ostensbly mainstream thriller like this again."

I could see it. It's not that special.

95% of the film isn't that special, many sections almost mundane, but there's just no warning for the training film, which is the reason why it works. It reminds me of 'The Red Shoes', a borderline tedious formulaic drama, that casually builds to the centerpiece, which suddenly and without warning becomes utterly surreal and overwhelming, the heart of the entire film concentrated into a few minutes, over before you know it and then... you're back to your standard boilerplate, wondering what happened

you don't see many films with that kind of restraint these days, either they make the strangest conspiracy content seem quite boring through the standardized direction or they make a point to bonk you on the head with the weird from the get-go

saw Klute last night -- I liked it, the scenes where Fonda's discussing what it's like to be a call girl with her therapist are pretty impressive, especially for 1971. and the parts of the plot you can see coming, when they come it stays believable, they wanted you to see it coming. and I liked how when the villain does his confessional & lays out his pathology, it's pretty much the evil gendered mirror of everything Fonda's trying to get over herself, there's no waste in the film at all, it's about one thing

Parallax View has the best sound ever.

I think maybe both Zodiac and Michael Clayton are kind of keeping in the tradition of what we're talking about here in terms of patiently-paced ostensible mainstream thrillers.

Yeah Michael Clayton would definitely fit into that category.

ATPM opened 35 years ago this month:

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/3148

A couple of friends and I have been counting down our 50 favorite films on Facebook; I'll have ATPM pretty high. It's impossible for me to stumble over it on TV and not end up staying with it for as long as I'm able to.

I agree with the poster just above that Zodiac is a very worthy contemporary equivalent (and know from other threads that Morbius does not). I've been having a hard time thinking of others. A couple of Russell Crowe movies came to mind: State of Play and The Insider. I thought State of Play was just okay. The Insider I need to revisit--I didn't make much of an impression on me at the time.

"it" didn't make much of an impression on me, that should read; I make a big impression on myself all the time.

1:20 mark--I've been in love with this woman for 35 years!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRGYKFMV0GI

AJP '76 piece on the making of.

http://www.dga.org/Craft/DGAQ/All-Articles/1204-Fall-2012/All-The-Presidents-Men.aspx

haven't seen Seven Days in May but recently watched both Seconds and Manchurian Candidate and loved em (especially the former). is Seven Days of similar caliber to the other two...?

Not quite - it's more straightforward but then anything's more straightforward than Seconds and it's still pretty great. Exciting plot, juicy performances.

Just watched Rollover--1981, Jane Fonda and Kris Kristofferson. As a film, nothing; it's hard to fathom how Pakula could get every last detail so right in All the President's Men and, just five years later, seem like a complete hack. (One who likes to imitate effects from All the President's Men.) But two things were interesting. Fonda plays a former movie star who gave up her career to marry a rich industrialist--this is still years before she takes up with Ted Turner. And the movie seems to anticipate the banking meltdown of four years ago.

I wish so badly that this movie wasn't boring because the ending is completely bonkers. On the basis of the concept, film should have been a classic.

One of these days someone will make movies out of James Ellroy's "paranoia trilogy": American Tabloid, The Cold Six Thousand and Blood's a Rover - which all take place during this classic time period

feel like the hbo game of thrones treatment might be best for ells.

Wish there were a better recording of this online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYXJg3BGfTI

There could be a great "paranoid thriller" mixtape, also featuring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGY1PAuSTjA

so the Blu-Ray of Seconds looks really amazing. The first 40 minutes sort of towers over the rest of the movie, even more than say Full Metal Jacket? Tho I think Hudson and John Randolph did an exceptional job of matching each other.

Also what I thought were dolly shots is in fact the actors having a camera harnessed to them (the JF commentary, recorded in late '90s, is worth a listen).

Didn't know JF's career was derailed in part by alcoholism in his 40s and 50s.

also this is Frankenheimer at his most Orson Wellesian.

For all the times I've seen All the President's Men, don't think I ever gave it any thought until last night that the opening credits identify it as a "Robert Redford-Alan J. Pakula film." The co-credit is odd enough; listing Redford first even odder.

^Redford's production company made it, he hired Pakula; c'est la star

(Hoffman got first star billing in the movie, RR in all the ads)

Uncle Junior Soprano is a Watergate burglar, F Murray Abraham is one of the arresting cops

IB Technicolor print of The Parallax View in NYC on 11/15... presented by Larry Wilmore!

http://filmforum.org/events/event/the-parallax-view-presented-by-larry-wilmore

Redford recorded a commentary track for ATPM where he didn't once mention William Goldman (still seething about Adventures in the Screen Trade I guess)

The Parallax View really needs a Blu-Ray transfer. It's such a fantastic looking movie. The escalator shot mentioned upthread, the shot of the senator's golf cart sliding sideways into the tables...the plot is fine, but the cinematography is all-time.

I think i listened to at least part of that... did he mention "the writer"? xp

ATPM released 40 years ago this week... WaPo on its visual style (y'know, the one Alfred claims it doesn't have).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2016/04/09/as-all-the-presidents-men-turns-40-woodward-and-bernstein-share-their-favorite-shots-from-the-movie/

You haven't got it.

It was probably scheduled weeks ago, so nothing to do with Comey on Thursday, but a local rep screened President's Men tonight (with a discussion afterwards I didn't feel like hanging around for). I don't often see mention of how really funny a film it is: Jane Alexander's sister offering Hoffman coffee, Ken Clawson on the phone repeating "I've got a wife and kid and a dog and a cat," a dozen other perfectly timed moments, most of them conveyed with a glance or some throwaway piece of dialogue. (The audience was very responsive to the humour tonight.) The moment where Robards approves the one story late at night, the camera on him as he raps the table and snaps his fingers while walking out of the office, that's one of my favourite shots in any film ever--such a beautiful and subtle expression of pure elation. I kind of stopped watching the two Godfathers and Nashville and Taxi Driver five years ago, but I never seem to tire of Pakula's film.

It has a lot of funny moments that seem to inspire the Coen Bros, and it also has some amazing shots.

The one where Hoffman makes the "count down from ten" phone call in one office and then they track across the entire newsroom to the elevator is pretty amazing even today.

I need to watch all of these again

Lots of whirlwind tracking inside the newsroom, like when Bernstein practically drags Sally (Quinn) over to see Woodward about the Canuck story. Really loved the opening tonight too, with the gigantic typewriter keys--I sensed a little bit of unease in the theatre four or five seconds into the white screen, like there was something wrong, and then BANG!

Oh when he grabs her and drags her over, that's so awkward to watch today. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?
Easier to just watch him fill strangers' living rooms with cigarette smoke than to grab a female coworker by the arm like that.

My girlfriend and I watched it again some time ago -- honestly can't remember if it was pre or post election but I'm pretty sure it was pre by at least a couple of months -- and it was disorienting to a degree to remember it wasn't a 'period' piece since the period in question was just a couple of years before it was filmed.

Really loved the opening tonight too, with the gigantic typewriter keys--I sensed a little bit of unease in the theatre four or five seconds into the white screen, like there was something wrong, and then BANG!

Had completely forgotten about that myself until the rewatch!

Fantastic use of the WH itself and those within as a spectral presence -- literally the haunted house up on a hill, almost.

Oh when he grabs her and drags her over, that's so awkward to watch today.

I'm a horrible person--I didn't find it awkward. I just can't see that it means anything except it's a huge breakthrough in the story--the president's communications director claiming he authored a phony letter that hastened the downfall of the guy his boss didn't want to run against--and Bernstein's momentarily overcome by adrenaline. There are lots of moments where Bernstein and Woodward are shown to be ruthless and insensitive (especially with regards to Sally and another female co-worker) in their pursuit of the story--"I guess I just don't have the taste for the jugular you guys have"--but I didn't find that particular moment especially damning.

Well it's no judgement from me to say we're from different eras professionally, I hope.
In my office if I did that to any coworker, especially a woman, I'd be completely unsurprised to get a write-up and a stern lecture within a day or two, even if the draggee herself hadn't complained. It's just such an inappropriate thing to do nowadays; I'd carefully tap a shoulder and just wave vigorously, maybe, arm grabbing is reserved for genuine emergencies imho.

That could have been phrased more precisely but what I meant was I don't consider you a worse person at all for not seeing it the way I do.

No, I didn't take it that way.

It's not something you'd ever do at work today, no. I'm just seeing it as a dramatic device within the context of a movie made in 1975--i.e., I don't think Bernstein's actions (which may or may not have actually happened) mean anything beyond a way to show how key a moment that is.

watched the parallax view this weekend. the montage sequence was incredible, especially with that music. it reminded me of twitter--a bunch of things taken out of content and mashed together

I think the way the billing goes in ATPM is the two leads, and then (in whatever order) Robards, Warden, Balsam, and Holbrook. That might be my favourite block of four supporting performances in any film ever. They're all dead now.

Of all the films Brian Wilson could have wandered into one day in 1966, Seconds was the worst choice for his mental well-being.

!

I have a book somewhere about the Santa Barbara proto-hippies featured in the wine stomp sequence of Seconds; pretty interesting (if slightly male chauvinistic) group of people.

Persona wouldn't have been good either.

watched Klute recently. Really great first 20 mins, doesn't really hold up past halfway thru

Very happy that Criterion is releasing Parallax on Blu-Ray next week. It's one of those movies, like Miami Vice, that's just as effective with the sound off as on.

I was surprised to find it, but this scene from Mr. Robot reminded me a lot of the brainwashing scene in The Parallax View.

https://vimeo.com/387207936

Start at 4:30...incentive to watch Mr. Robot, I guess, if you like this sort of thing.

A bit of ATPM esoterica I never knew till today: this woman--the one who breaks down in tears the second time Woodstein pay her a visit--is Valerie Curtin, Barry Levinson's writing partner and one-time wife.

https://phildellio.tripod.com/curtin.jpg

And the only reason I noticed is because I'm midway through Best Friends, their intermittently amusing but mostly plodding memoir of their relationship (with Goldie Hawn and Burt Reynolds).

penny peyser you have my heart forever

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYWQ4NjRhOGEtNjNkYy00YmJkLWIzZDEtYjk5NDJlNzc5ZGZjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjUxMjc1OTM@._V1_.jpg

^Mine too. ("I know Howard--now he's secretive.")

Rep screening of ATPM in London tonight; a friend and his wife are seeing it tomorrow in Toronto. I noticed tonight that it basically dispenses with the '72 campaign/election at one point; it's there (talk of Eagleton, of McGovern, the RNC), then all of a sudden in the last scene in the newsroom Nixon's being sworn in on TV. Something like The Best Man or The War Room would be more appropriate as a pre-election night film. Which is not to say it's not close to perfect anyway. My only minor quibble is that Jason Robards, great as he is, has to give variations on the same ominous, "You do realize..." speech three different times.

Jane Alexander should have won Supporting Actress, if only for the look she gives her sister when she asks Hoffman if wants some coffee...really, Jodie Foster should have won.

Might as well bring this up here instead of in the devoted thread, but I've long felt Seconds needed a modern, gender-flipped remake, and hoo-mama did The Substance deliver on that.

watched Klute recently. Really great first 20 mins, doesn't really hold up past halfway thru

― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, 4 February 2021 01:51 (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

yep